Best CPU and Chipset for cpufreq?

Best CPU and Chipset for cpufreq?

[Jesper Anderson]

I'm currently planning to get a new laptop to work and play on. I'm
trying to find a good compromise for my needs, and it will obviously
run Linux of some flavour.

So, I've been trying to find out which CPU and chipset would be
"best", or at least have good support, from cpufreq.

The current system I'm looking at has a Mobile AMD Athlon and a VIA
chipset. Unfortunately the model is claimed to run hot and has low
battery time, so I'd want to be able to choke it down as much as
possible when I just sit and type on it.

Is this supported? Would I be better off looking at an Intel M model?
Something else entirely?

Thanks in advance,

Jesper

PS. The model I'm looking at is the Acer Ferrari - rather sexy little
beast. ;)

Re: Best CPU and Chipset for cpufreq?

[Juan M. Duran]

El mié, 14-01-2004 a las 17:39, Jesper Anderson escribió:

Hi everybody. It is my first post. Be merciful 

> The current system I'm looking at has a Mobile AMD Athlon and a VIA
> chipset. Unfortunately the model is claimed to run hot and has low
> battery time, so I'd want to be able to choke it down as much as
> possible when I just sit and type on it.

I have an Acer 1314LC (VIA KN266 Athlon 2400+) and is really hot,
specially running  MSwindows. Fortunately, I have been using Fedora Core
1 with the default athlon kernel and Im able to put the Mhz down to the
minimun level. Just put on your local.rc something like

/sbin/modprobe powernow-k7
echo -n "0:1064000:1795500:powersave" > /proc/cpufreq
echo -n "0:789000:1795500:powersave" > /proc/cpufreq

I do this on two steps to avoid freezing the laptop.  At least with the
old cpufreq driver this problem happened and is quite frequent with
athlon laptops. (eg Acer aspire)

> Is this supported? Would I be better off looking at an Intel M model?
> Something else entirely?

IMHO, Intel M model is better processor for a laptop computer. Of course
the results not only depend of the processor, but also of the overall
construction of the laptop.

> PS. The model I'm looking at is the Acer Ferrari - rather sexy little
> beast. ;)

I have seen this model, and I must tell you that is much better than
aspire series and dissipates less heat (al least using my "hand-meter") 

-- 

Juan M. Duran
Departamento de Biologia Celular y Anatomia Patologica 
Facultad de Medicina
Universidad de Barcelona
C/ Casanova 143
08036 Barcelona, Spain
Tel. 34-93-4021909
Fax 34-93-4035260

Re: Best CPU and Chipset for cpufreq?

[Jesper Anderson]

On Wed, Jan 14, 2004 at 06:18:08PM +0100, Juan M. Duran wrote:
>
> I have an Acer 1314LC (VIA KN266 Athlon 2400+) and is really hot,
> specially running  MSwindows. Fortunately, I have been using Fedora
> Core 1 with the default athlon kernel and Im able to put the Mhz
> down to the minimun level. Just put on your local.rc something like

Thanks for the tip. A 2400+ runs at around 1.7GHz, right? How low can
you get it to go? Am I reading the echo statements right at 789 MHz?

> IMHO, Intel M model is better processor for a laptop computer. Of
> course the results not only depend of the processor, but also of the
> overall construction of the laptop.

Yeah, the Intel M seems to be pretty nice. Sadly I haven't managed to
find an M that has a 1400x1050 screen, Radeon with dual screen
capability, DVD+-RW, 802.11g, ieee1394 and bluetooth. Or many other
machines than the Ferrari that have this, actually. 802.11b is much
more common, and I can compromise on that, I suppose.

> > PS. The model I'm looking at is the Acer Ferrari - rather sexy
> > little beast. ;)
>
> I have seen this model, and I must tell you that is much better than
> aspire series and dissipates less heat (al least using my
> "hand-meter")

Okay, that's good to know. I've read as many reviews of it as I
managed to find, and they all said it gets hot in the lower left, and
that it gets more like 2 hours battery rather than the advertised 3.
My "sweet spot" is 3 hours; if I can make or beat that for normal use,
I'm happy. When pushing it (games etc.) it doesn't matter as much, as
I'll probably have power nearby.

Jesper

Re: Best CPU and Chipset for cpufreq?

[Jesper Anderson]

On Wed, Jan 14, 2004 at 09:49:34PM +0100, Alexandre Belloni wrote:
> 
> Try looking at a Dell Inspiron 8600. Mine has a 1680*1050 screen,
> Geforce FX 5650, DVD+RW (only +) and ieee1394.

But it's a Dell .... ;P

What's your experience with running Linux on it? Specifically cpu
scaling and the like?

> I can have up to 4 hours with only one battery and up to 6h30 when I
> plug the second battery. That can go up to 9 hours when doing
> absolutely nothing :).

I doubt I'll ever manage to do *nothing*, but that does sound good.
Have you figured out what difference the frequency and voltage scaling
from cpufreq does to this?

I'd really love to see a page with a comparison on how well the
various CPU's and chipsets work with cpufreq ... maybe I'll do the
right thing and make one; we'll see ...

Jesper

Re: Best CPU and Chipset for cpufreq?

[Jesper Anderson]

On Wed, Jan 14, 2004 at 11:18:40PM +0100, Alexandre Belloni wrote:
> 
> When I wanted to buy a laptop, I first looked at Acer (803 LMi and
> Ferrari) but finally, after comparing, I found the dell was better
> (in my point of view).

Mmm ... just looked it over, and it's a *very* impressive machine.
Especially considering how good battery performance it can get.

Sadly it's only available with the Nvidia 5200 or Radeon 9600 Ultra
over here (Sweden); the 5200 is lame-o, and the Radeons have pretty
bad Linux support (if you don't mind Nvidia closed drivers). Ah well.

And to keep that part (graphics) on topic, it seems the new NVidia
graphics cards for laptops scale their voltage. That might be
something that we'll end up needing a driver for. Interesting
technology, for sure.

Thanks for the impromptu benchmarking. I'm right now leaning a lot
more towards one of these instead of an Acer. Just one questions; you
have the 1.7 GHz one, right? How hot does it get? Do you notice that
changing with cpu frequency adjustment?

This (heat dissipation and power consumption in various loads) are the
things that are really hard to find, and where I find the Linux
utilities to generally outperform Windows. Or maybe it just is that
Windows is always using CPU for a lot of background stuff ...

Thanks again,

Jesper

Re: Best CPU and Chipset for cpufreq?

[Ducrot Bruno]

On Wed, Jan 14, 2004 at 11:42:38PM +0100, Jesper Anderson wrote:
> And to keep that part (graphics) on topic, it seems the new NVidia
> graphics cards for laptops scale their voltage. That might be
> something that we'll end up needing a driver for. Interesting
> technology, for sure.

Graphics cards for mobile do that for ages.  Just that most of time
constructors do not give specs for doing so.  AFAIK, the radeon
code in the fb does it (at least in benh tree), and there are
some experimental codes for in DRI CVS.

-- 
Ducrot Bruno

--  Which is worse:  ignorance or apathy?
--  Don't know.  Don't care.

Re: Best CPU and Chipset for cpufreq?

[Carl Thompson]

My current main laptop is an eMachines M5305 and it has been fantastic.  It has
an Athlon XP 2200+ that can throttle all the way down to 532MHz.  Using
ACPI+CPUFreq+CPUSpeed+laptop_mode+noatime+not-syncing-syslog I routinely
approach 3 hours battery time.  I can get quite a bit better than that if I
don't run X, don't use wireless, shut down services and syslog and generally
don't use the computer!  Also, while it can get warm if I max the CPU for a
long period of time, I can still keep it in my lap.

Plus, the eMachines laptops are very Linux-friendly, have a widescreen aspect
ratio (1280x800) and are very cheap despite being very powerful.

Carl Thompson

Quoting Jesper Anderson <jesper@pobox.com>:

> I'm currently planning to get a new laptop to work and play on. I'm
> trying to find a good compromise for my needs, and it will obviously
> run Linux of some flavour.
>
> So, I've been trying to find out which CPU and chipset would be
> "best", or at least have good support, from cpufreq.
>
> The current system I'm looking at has a Mobile AMD Athlon and a VIA
> chipset. Unfortunately the model is claimed to run hot and has low
> battery time, so I'd want to be able to choke it down as much as
> possible when I just sit and type on it.
>
> Is this supported? Would I be better off looking at an Intel M model?
> Something else entirely?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Jesper
>
> PS. The model I'm looking at is the Acer Ferrari - rather sexy little
> beast. ;)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cpufreq mailing list
> Cpufreq@www.linux.org.uk
> http://www.linux.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cpufreq
>
>

Re: Best CPU and Chipset for cpufreq?

[Dave Jones]

On Fri, Jan 16, 2004 at 11:36:49AM -0800, Carl Thompson wrote:
 > My current main laptop is an eMachines M5305 and it has been fantastic.  It has
 > an Athlon XP 2200+ that can throttle all the way down to 532MHz.

Interesting, I've received reports that model has broken PST tables.
What BIOS revision do you have ? (dmidecode output would be useful)

 > Plus, the eMachines laptops are very Linux-friendly, have a widescreen aspect
 > ratio (1280x800) and are very cheap despite being very powerful.

eMachines have been extremely unhelpful in some cases too.
When someone pointed out to them they had broken PST tables, they got
quite annoyed, and blamed it on "Linux not being a real operating system".

		Dave

Re: Best CPU and Chipset for cpufreq?

[Carl Thompson]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1238 bytes --]

Quoting Dave Jones <davej@redhat.com>:

> On Fri, Jan 16, 2004 at 11:36:49AM -0800, Carl Thompson wrote:
> > My current main laptop is an eMachines M5305 and it has been fantastic.
> > It has an Athlon XP 2200+ that can throttle all the way down to 532MHz.
>
> Interesting, I've received reports that model has broken PST tables.
> What BIOS revision do you have ? (dmidecode output would be useful)

I'm running the original BIOS that came on the laptop and have had no problems.
Everything works fine.  (dmidecode output attached.)


> > Plus, the eMachines laptops are very Linux-friendly, have a widescreen
> > aspect ratio (1280x800) and are very cheap despite being very powerful.
>
> eMachines have been extremely unhelpful in some cases too.
> When someone pointed out to them they had broken PST tables, they got
> quite annoyed, and blamed it on "Linux not being a real operating system".

Well, I don't seem to have the PST table problem and I think I have their first
laptop (?).  So perhaps that's a mistake?

And, of course, no company that sells machines that cheap is going to have
stellar support, but this laptop does seem to be an excellent value anyway
(lots of features, good quality and low price).

> 		Dave

Carl


[-- Attachment #2: dmidecode.txt --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 6070 bytes --]

# dmidecode 2.2
SMBIOS 2.3 present.
18 structures occupying 684 bytes.
Table at 0x000DF010.
Handle 0x0000
	DMI type 0, 20 bytes.
	BIOS Information
		Vendor: Phoenix
		Version: 0009
		Release Date: 03/02/2003
		Address: 0xE5F40
		Runtime Size: 106688 bytes
		ROM Size: 512 kB
		Characteristics:
			ISA is supported
			PCI is supported
			PC Card (PCMCIA) is supported
			PNP is supported
			APM is supported
			BIOS is upgradeable
			BIOS shadowing is allowed
			ESCD support is available
			Boot from CD is supported
			Selectable boot is supported
			BIOS ROM is socketed
			ACPI is supported
			USB legacy is supported
			AGP is supported
			Smart battery is supported
			BIOS boot specification is supported
			Function key-initiated network boot is supported
Handle 0x0001
	DMI type 1, 25 bytes.
	System Information
		Manufacturer: eMachines. Inc.
		Product Name: M5305
		Version: 0009
		Serial Number: N7036 100 00785                         
		UUID: 80C20E72-DD63-0010-A787-7F0F04138EC7
		Wake-up Type: Power Switch
Handle 0x0002
	DMI type 2, 8 bytes.
	Base Board Information
		Manufacturer: Arima 
		Product Name: W720K7
		Version: KBC Revision: 1911
		Serial Number: None                                    
Handle 0x0003
	DMI type 3, 17 bytes.
	Chassis Information
		Manufacturer: Arima 
		Type: Notebook
		Lock: Not Present
		Version: N/A
		Serial Number: None
		Asset Tag:                               
		Boot-up State: Unknown
		Power Supply State: Unknown
		Thermal State: Unknown
		Security Status: Unknown
		OEM Information: 0x00001234
Handle 0x0004
	DMI type 4, 32 bytes.
	Processor Information
		Socket Designation: U23
		Type: Central Processor
		Family: Athlon
		Manufacturer: AuthenticAMD
		ID: 81 06 00 00 FF F9 83 03
		Signature: Type 0, Family 6, Model 8, Stepping 1
		Flags:
			FPU (Floating-point unit on-chip)
			VME (Virtual mode extension)
			DE (Debugging extension)
			PSE (Page size extension)
			TSC (Time stamp counter)
			MSR (Model specific registers)
			PAE (Physical address extension)
			MCE (Machine check exception)
			CX8 (CMPXCHG8 instruction supported)
			SEP (Fast system call)
			MTRR (Memory type range registers)
			PGE (Page global enable)
			MCA (Machine check architecture)
			CMOV (Conditional move instruction supported)
			PAT (Page attribute table)
			PSE-36 (36-bit page size extension)
			MMX (MMX technology supported)
			FXSR (Fast floating-point save and restore)
			SSE (Streaming SIMD extensions)
		Version: Mobile AMD Athlon(tm) XP processor 2200+
		Voltage: 1.4 V
		External Clock: 133 MHz
		Max Speed: 1800 MHz
		Current Speed: 1800 MHz
		Status: Populated, Enabled
		Upgrade: ZIF Socket
		L1 Cache Handle: 0x0005
		L2 Cache Handle: 0x0006
		L3 Cache Handle: Not Provided
Handle 0x0005
	DMI type 7, 19 bytes.
	Cache Information
		Socket Designation: L1 Cache
		Configuration: Enabled, Not Socketed, Level 1
		Operational Mode: Write Back
		Location: Internal
		Installed Size: 128 KB
		Maximum Size: 128 KB
		Supported SRAM Types:
			Burst
			Pipeline Burst
		Installed SRAM Type: Synchronous
		Speed: Unknown
		Error Correction Type: Parity
		System Type: Other
		Associativity: 4-way Set-associative
Handle 0x0006
	DMI type 7, 19 bytes.
	Cache Information
		Socket Designation: L2 Cache
		Configuration: Enabled, Socketed, Level 2
		Operational Mode: Write Back
		Location: Internal
		Installed Size: 256 KB
		Maximum Size: 256 KB
		Supported SRAM Types:
			Burst
			Pipeline Burst
		Installed SRAM Type: Synchronous
		Speed: Unknown
		Error Correction Type: Unknown
		System Type: Other
		Associativity: Unknown
Handle 0x0007
	DMI type 16, 15 bytes.
	Physical Memory Array
		Location: System Board Or Motherboard
		Use: Flash Memory
		Error Correction Type: None
		Maximum Capacity: 512 kB
		Error Information Handle: Not Provided
		Number Of Devices: 1
Handle 0x0008
	DMI type 16, 15 bytes.
	Physical Memory Array
		Location: System Board Or Motherboard
		Use: System Memory
		Error Correction Type: None
		Maximum Capacity: 1 GB
		Error Information Handle: Not Provided
		Number Of Devices: 2
Handle 0x0009
	DMI type 17, 23 bytes.
	Memory Device
		Array Handle: 0x0008
		Error Information Handle: Not Provided
		Total Width: 64 bits
		Data Width: 64 bits
		Size: 512 MB
		Form Factor: DIMM
		Set: 1
		Locator: U5
		Bank Locator: Bank 0
		Type: DRAM
		Type Detail: Synchronous
		Speed: 266 MHz (3.8 ns)
Handle 0x000A
	DMI type 17, 23 bytes.
	Memory Device
		Array Handle: 0x0008
		Error Information Handle: Not Provided
		Total Width: 64 bits
		Data Width: 64 bits
		Size: 256 MB
		Form Factor: DIMM
		Set: 1
		Locator: U6
		Bank Locator: Bank 1
		Type: DRAM
		Type Detail: Synchronous
		Speed: 266 MHz (3.8 ns)
Handle 0x000B
	DMI type 17, 23 bytes.
	Memory Device
		Array Handle: 0x0007
		Error Information Handle: Not Provided
		Total Width: 16 bits
		Data Width: 16 bits
		Size: 512 kB
		Form Factor: Chip
		Set: None
		Locator: System Board
		Bank Locator: Null
		Type: Flash
		Type Detail: Non-Volatile
		Speed: 8 MHz (125.0 ns)
Handle 0x000C
	DMI type 19, 15 bytes.
	Memory Array Mapped Address
		Starting Address: 0x00000000000
		Ending Address: 0x000000003FF
		Range Size: 1 kB
		Physical Array Handle: 0x0008
		Partition Width: 0
Handle 0x000D
	DMI type 19, 15 bytes.
	Memory Array Mapped Address
		Starting Address: 0x00000000000
		Ending Address: 0x000000003FF
		Range Size: 1 kB
		Physical Array Handle: 0x0008
		Partition Width: 0
Handle 0x000E
	DMI type 20, 19 bytes.
	Memory Device Mapped Address
		Starting Address: 0x00000000000
		Ending Address: 0x000000003FF
		Range Size: 1 kB
		Physical Device Handle: 0x0009
		Memory Array Mapped Address Handle: 0x000C
		Partition Row Position: 1
Handle 0x000F
	DMI type 20, 19 bytes.
	Memory Device Mapped Address
		Starting Address: 0x00000000000
		Ending Address: 0x000000003FF
		Range Size: 1 kB
		Physical Device Handle: 0x000A
		Memory Array Mapped Address Handle: 0x000D
		Partition Row Position: 1
Handle 0x0010
	DMI type 32, 20 bytes.
	System Boot Information
		Status: <OUT OF SPEC>
Handle 0x0011
	DMI type 127, 4 bytes.
	End Of Table

[-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 143 bytes --]

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