* userspace NFS daemon @ 2004-09-05 21:09 Frank van Maarseveen 2004-09-05 21:25 ` Trond Myklebust 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Frank van Maarseveen @ 2004-09-05 21:09 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Linux NFS mailing list Isn't this one completely obsolete? So maybe we could drop sys_setfsuid() and sys_setfsgid() if those calls have no other use then for running unfsd as root? -- Frank ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.Net email is sponsored by BEA Weblogic Workshop FREE Java Enterprise J2EE developer tools! Get your free copy of BEA WebLogic Workshop 8.1 today. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=5047&alloc_id=10808&op=click _______________________________________________ NFS maillist - NFS@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nfs ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: userspace NFS daemon 2004-09-05 21:09 userspace NFS daemon Frank van Maarseveen @ 2004-09-05 21:25 ` Trond Myklebust 2004-09-05 22:01 ` Frank van Maarseveen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Trond Myklebust @ 2004-09-05 21:25 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Frank van Maarseveen; +Cc: Linux NFS mailing list P=E5 su , 05/09/2004 klokka 17:09, skreiv Frank van Maarseveen: > Isn't this one completely obsolete? Yes. Debian still keeps it around, though. > So maybe we could drop sys_setfsuid() and sys_setfsgid() if those calls > have no other use then for running unfsd as root? That is really a question to be put to lkml rather than this list, however note that we still do have userspace file-servers to support. Does Samba use it, for instance? Cheers, Trond ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.Net email is sponsored by BEA Weblogic Workshop FREE Java Enterprise J2EE developer tools! Get your free copy of BEA WebLogic Workshop 8.1 today. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=5047&alloc_id=10808&op=click _______________________________________________ NFS maillist - NFS@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nfs ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: userspace NFS daemon 2004-09-05 21:25 ` Trond Myklebust @ 2004-09-05 22:01 ` Frank van Maarseveen 2004-09-05 22:10 ` Trond Myklebust 2004-09-06 7:41 ` Peter Astrand 0 siblings, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Frank van Maarseveen @ 2004-09-05 22:01 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Trond Myklebust; +Cc: Frank van Maarseveen, Linux NFS mailing list On Sun, Sep 05, 2004 at 05:25:52PM -0400, Trond Myklebust wrote: > P=E5 su , 05/09/2004 klokka 17:09, skreiv Frank van Maarseveen: > > Isn't this one completely obsolete? >=20 > Yes. Debian still keeps it around, though. Maybe with an old kernel as well. Anyway, I found this: http://clusternfs.sourceforge.net This is not supported by knfsd I think. --=20 Frank ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.Net email is sponsored by BEA Weblogic Workshop FREE Java Enterprise J2EE developer tools! Get your free copy of BEA WebLogic Workshop 8.1 today. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=5047&alloc_id=10808&op=click _______________________________________________ NFS maillist - NFS@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nfs ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: userspace NFS daemon 2004-09-05 22:01 ` Frank van Maarseveen @ 2004-09-05 22:10 ` Trond Myklebust 2004-09-06 0:47 ` Bogdan Costescu 2004-09-06 7:41 ` Peter Astrand 1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Trond Myklebust @ 2004-09-05 22:10 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Frank van Maarseveen; +Cc: Linux NFS mailing list P=E5 su , 05/09/2004 klokka 18:01, skreiv Frank van Maarseveen: > Anyway, I found this: >=20 > http://clusternfs.sourceforge.net >=20 > This is not supported by knfsd I think. Wow. People would actually trust their root partition to unfsd? The mind boggles... Note: there is no reason why this couldn't be done for knfsd (or even for local file accesses) using a stackable filesystem. Cheers, Trond ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.Net email is sponsored by BEA Weblogic Workshop FREE Java Enterprise J2EE developer tools! Get your free copy of BEA WebLogic Workshop 8.1 today. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=5047&alloc_id=10808&op=click _______________________________________________ NFS maillist - NFS@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nfs ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: userspace NFS daemon 2004-09-05 22:10 ` Trond Myklebust @ 2004-09-06 0:47 ` Bogdan Costescu 2004-09-06 3:32 ` Trond Myklebust 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Bogdan Costescu @ 2004-09-06 0:47 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Trond Myklebust; +Cc: Frank van Maarseveen, Linux NFS mailing list On Sun, 5 Sep 2004, Trond Myklebust wrote: > Wow. People would actually trust their root partition to unfsd? The mind > boggles... Err, you mean to say that root-NFS only appeared after knfsd ? And that knfsd was absolutely flawless since day 1 ? :-) Cluster nodes have usually a small number of software packages installed. Most "core" packages (like core-utils, grep, gawk, etc.) don't need locking. As / doesn't see itself much writting (which happens usually in /var and /tmp, but those can be mounted separately), NFSv3 vs. NFSv2 doesn't make much difference either. So what's the problem with using unfsd in these conditions ? -- Bogdan Costescu IWR - Interdisziplinaeres Zentrum fuer Wissenschaftliches Rechnen Universitaet Heidelberg, INF 368, D-69120 Heidelberg, GERMANY Telephone: +49 6221 54 8869, Telefax: +49 6221 54 8868 E-mail: Bogdan.Costescu@IWR.Uni-Heidelberg.De ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.Net email is sponsored by BEA Weblogic Workshop FREE Java Enterprise J2EE developer tools! Get your free copy of BEA WebLogic Workshop 8.1 today. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=5047&alloc_id=10808&op=click _______________________________________________ NFS maillist - NFS@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nfs ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: userspace NFS daemon 2004-09-06 0:47 ` Bogdan Costescu @ 2004-09-06 3:32 ` Trond Myklebust 2004-09-06 19:35 ` Bogdan Costescu 2004-09-07 10:40 ` Olaf Kirch 0 siblings, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Trond Myklebust @ 2004-09-06 3:32 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bogdan Costescu; +Cc: Frank van Maarseveen, Linux NFS mailing list P=E5 su , 05/09/2004 klokka 20:47, skreiv Bogdan Costescu: > Err, you mean to say that root-NFS only appeared after knfsd ? And=20 > that knfsd was absolutely flawless since day 1 ? :-) No. I mean that very few people have ever used unfsd in mission-critical production environments. You might get away with it for read-only stuff (if you are prepared to put up with the speed), but nobody should be using it for read/write partitions. > Cluster nodes have usually a small number of software packages=20 > installed. Most "core" packages (like core-utils, grep, gawk, etc.)=20 > don't need locking. As / doesn't see itself much writting (which=20 > happens usually in /var and /tmp, but those can be mounted=20 > separately), NFSv3 vs. NFSv2 doesn't make much difference either. So=20 > what's the problem with using unfsd in these conditions ? If you have to mount all the writeable partitions separately from a more robust server, then why bother? Replicating /etc and changing the two or three files that differ for each cluster node is hardly a difficult task: you can do it using a simple shell script. /bin doesn't even have to be replicated... The "per-uid" and "per-gid" stuff might be more useful, but is likely to be defeated by lookup caching rules on most NFS clients. Note: the premise: If a matching file is located, but authorization is denied,this is NOT considered a match, and the next entry on the list will be attempted. if taken literally, would certainly make managing these name.ipaddress files "interesting": "chmod a+r,a-w blah; cat >blah" might have some curious side-effects... Cheers, Trond ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.Net email is sponsored by BEA Weblogic Workshop FREE Java Enterprise J2EE developer tools! Get your free copy of BEA WebLogic Workshop 8.1 today. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=5047&alloc_id=10808&op=click _______________________________________________ NFS maillist - NFS@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nfs ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: userspace NFS daemon 2004-09-06 3:32 ` Trond Myklebust @ 2004-09-06 19:35 ` Bogdan Costescu 2004-09-06 20:08 ` Trond Myklebust 2004-09-07 10:40 ` Olaf Kirch 1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Bogdan Costescu @ 2004-09-06 19:35 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Trond Myklebust; +Cc: Frank van Maarseveen, Linux NFS mailing list On Sun, 5 Sep 2004, Trond Myklebust wrote: > No. I mean that very few people have ever used unfsd in mission-critical > production environments. Well, I don't know what your standards are relative to "mission-critical", but some years ago knfsd didn't exist and clustering people (among others) had to use the user-level daemon(s) for everything anyway. Some preferred to continue this way... (I'm not among them though). > If you have to mount all the writeable partitions separately from a more > robust server, then why bother? /tmp is usually a local disk, not another NFS server. For /var things are not so clear though, but if you have a heavy-written /var partition then NFS (even with knfsd) might not be the best solution anyway - a parallel FS that would share the disk bandwidth might be better even than local disk (and might provide better reliability...) > Replicating /etc and changing the two or three files that differ for > each cluster node is hardly a difficult task: you can do it using a > simple shell script. /bin doesn't even have to be replicated... As in Unix tradition, there are several ways to achieve the same goal. There are people using 'mount -o bind' (like RHEL's diskless booting setup procedure) or hard-links (what I use). But both of these require some maintenance effort in form of scripts and a general cleanliness in handling software updates or new installs. With clusternfs, the files are created in their place with their intended destination in the name and the daemon takes care of the rest... There are people that prefer to concentrate on science rather than system administration. :-) -- Bogdan Costescu IWR - Interdisziplinaeres Zentrum fuer Wissenschaftliches Rechnen Universitaet Heidelberg, INF 368, D-69120 Heidelberg, GERMANY Telephone: +49 6221 54 8869, Telefax: +49 6221 54 8868 E-mail: Bogdan.Costescu@IWR.Uni-Heidelberg.De ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.Net email is sponsored by BEA Weblogic Workshop FREE Java Enterprise J2EE developer tools! Get your free copy of BEA WebLogic Workshop 8.1 today. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=5047&alloc_id=10808&op=click _______________________________________________ NFS maillist - NFS@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nfs ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: userspace NFS daemon 2004-09-06 19:35 ` Bogdan Costescu @ 2004-09-06 20:08 ` Trond Myklebust 0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Trond Myklebust @ 2004-09-06 20:08 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bogdan Costescu; +Cc: Frank van Maarseveen, Linux NFS mailing list P=E5 m=E5 , 06/09/2004 klokka 15:35, skreiv Bogdan Costescu: > As in Unix tradition, there are several ways to achieve the same goal. =20 > There are people using 'mount -o bind' (like RHEL's diskless booting > setup procedure) or hard-links (what I use). But both of these require > some maintenance effort in form of scripts and a general cleanliness > in handling software updates or new installs. With clusternfs, the > files are created in their place with their intended destination in > the name and the daemon takes care of the rest... There are people > that prefer to concentrate on science rather than system > administration. :-) Hey, it's a free world. However please beware that most of the hacks that worked around the non-rfc-compliant behaviours of unfsd are long since gone from the kernel and will not be coming back. Cheers, Trond ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.Net email is sponsored by BEA Weblogic Workshop FREE Java Enterprise J2EE developer tools! Get your free copy of BEA WebLogic Workshop 8.1 today. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=5047&alloc_id=10808&op=click _______________________________________________ NFS maillist - NFS@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nfs ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: userspace NFS daemon 2004-09-06 3:32 ` Trond Myklebust 2004-09-06 19:35 ` Bogdan Costescu @ 2004-09-07 10:40 ` Olaf Kirch 1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Olaf Kirch @ 2004-09-07 10:40 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Trond Myklebust Cc: Bogdan Costescu, Frank van Maarseveen, Linux NFS mailing list On Sun, Sep 05, 2004 at 11:32:57PM -0400, Trond Myklebust wrote: > No. I mean that very few people have ever used unfsd in mission-critical > production environments. > You might get away with it for read-only stuff (if you are prepared to > put up with the speed), but nobody should be using it for read/write > partitions. Suse actually used it for /home until about 1.5 years ago or even less, and we had less problems than with knfsd. Olaf -- Olaf Kirch | The Hardware Gods hate me. okir@suse.de | ---------------+ ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.Net email is sponsored by BEA Weblogic Workshop FREE Java Enterprise J2EE developer tools! Get your free copy of BEA WebLogic Workshop 8.1 today. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=5047&alloc_id=10808&op=click _______________________________________________ NFS maillist - NFS@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nfs ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: userspace NFS daemon 2004-09-05 22:01 ` Frank van Maarseveen 2004-09-05 22:10 ` Trond Myklebust @ 2004-09-06 7:41 ` Peter Astrand 2004-09-06 19:13 ` Frank van Maarseveen 1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Peter Astrand @ 2004-09-06 7:41 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Linux NFS mailing list On Mon, 6 Sep 2004, Frank van Maarseveen wrote: >Anyway, I found this: > > http://clusternfs.sourceforge.net Another alternative is unfs3: http://unfs3.sourceforge.net/. It provides the same cluster extensions, and also has some other interesting features: * NFSv3 instead of NFSv2 (it's easier to write userspace NFS servers with v3, since the filehandle is larger.) * Can run the MOUNT and NFS protocol on the same TCP port. Very useful when tunneling through SSH. * Can export removable devices, even with FAT filesystems. * Supports mount-time passwords. When passwords are used, the filehandles are scrambled with the password. -- Peter Åstrand Chief Developer Cendio www.thinlinc.com Teknikringen 3 www.cendio.se 583 30 Linköping Phone: +46-13-21 46 00 ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.Net email is sponsored by BEA Weblogic Workshop FREE Java Enterprise J2EE developer tools! Get your free copy of BEA WebLogic Workshop 8.1 today. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=5047&alloc_id=10808&op=click _______________________________________________ NFS maillist - NFS@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nfs ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: userspace NFS daemon 2004-09-06 7:41 ` Peter Astrand @ 2004-09-06 19:13 ` Frank van Maarseveen 2004-09-06 19:43 ` Peter Astrand 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Frank van Maarseveen @ 2004-09-06 19:13 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Peter Astrand; +Cc: Linux NFS mailing list On Mon, Sep 06, 2004 at 09:41:31AM +0200, Peter Astrand wrote: > > Another alternative is unfs3: http://unfs3.sourceforge.net/. It provides > the same cluster extensions, and also has some other interesting features: > ... > * Can run the MOUNT and NFS protocol on the same TCP port. Very useful > when tunneling through SSH. Suppose I have an ssh tunnel to a system on which I don't have root access. Can I use unfs3 under a non-root id there to export / and below, mount it [as root] locally, such, that I can work under my own uid locally? That would be quite useful. -- Frank ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.Net email is sponsored by BEA Weblogic Workshop FREE Java Enterprise J2EE developer tools! Get your free copy of BEA WebLogic Workshop 8.1 today. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=5047&alloc_id=10808&op=click _______________________________________________ NFS maillist - NFS@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nfs ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: userspace NFS daemon 2004-09-06 19:13 ` Frank van Maarseveen @ 2004-09-06 19:43 ` Peter Astrand 0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Peter Astrand @ 2004-09-06 19:43 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Frank van Maarseveen; +Cc: Linux NFS mailing list > > * Can run the MOUNT and NFS protocol on the same TCP port. Very useful > > when tunneling through SSH. > > Suppose I have an ssh tunnel to a system on which I don't have root > access. Can I use unfs3 under a non-root id there to export / and > below, mount it [as root] locally, such, that I can work under my own > uid locally? Yes, that works. -- Peter Åstrand Chief Developer Cendio www.thinlinc.com Teknikringen 3 www.cendio.se 583 30 Linköping Phone: +46-13-21 46 00 ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.Net email is sponsored by BEA Weblogic Workshop FREE Java Enterprise J2EE developer tools! Get your free copy of BEA WebLogic Workshop 8.1 today. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=5047&alloc_id=10808&op=click _______________________________________________ NFS maillist - NFS@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nfs ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2004-09-07 10:40 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 12+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2004-09-05 21:09 userspace NFS daemon Frank van Maarseveen 2004-09-05 21:25 ` Trond Myklebust 2004-09-05 22:01 ` Frank van Maarseveen 2004-09-05 22:10 ` Trond Myklebust 2004-09-06 0:47 ` Bogdan Costescu 2004-09-06 3:32 ` Trond Myklebust 2004-09-06 19:35 ` Bogdan Costescu 2004-09-06 20:08 ` Trond Myklebust 2004-09-07 10:40 ` Olaf Kirch 2004-09-06 7:41 ` Peter Astrand 2004-09-06 19:13 ` Frank van Maarseveen 2004-09-06 19:43 ` Peter Astrand
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