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From: Matthew Wilcox <matthew@wil.cx>
To: Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>
Cc: Brian King <brking@us.ibm.com>,
	linux-pci@atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz, linux-pm@lists.osdl.org,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Adam Belay <abelay@MIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] Block on access to temporarily unavailable pci device
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 11:14:18 -0600	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20061018171418.GV22289@parisc-linux.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1161189592.9363.81.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Wed, Oct 18, 2006 at 05:39:52PM +0100, Alan Cox wrote:
> > The current user is limited to a two-second delay and the one I'm
> > proposing introducing is a delay measued in milli- or microseconds.
> > An extra two-second delay while you BIST your IPR device and change
> > modes in X at the same time (does X really scan all devices when it's
> > changing mode settings?  That's odd) doesn't strike me as a huge failure.
> 
> X scans all the devices when it sets up so only a video device one would
> hang mid mode set.

OK.  So the only possible X interaction currently is a D-state transition.

> > You fail the operation if it returns busy.  Or you loop.  It's really up
> > to you, the driver author.  You know what operation you're trying to do,
> > you know what makes more sense.
> 
> But I've no idea who, what or why and that makes it hard to handle. If
> the thing refcounts then if there are two reasons to be blocked we are
> fine and the last reason goes away we resume - it does make it more easy
> to make mistakes. If it isnt ref counting I'd prefer block repeated is a
> BUG() not a "driver figure this out"

Thinking about this a bit more, we only *need* to block userspace from
accessing a device while it's going to cause lockups if we access the
device.  And we'll cause the lockup ourselves if we try to do more than
one of these operations at a time.  So BUG_ON is clearly the right
approach.  Of course, the backtrace might well finger the wrong culprit --
if someone forgot to release the block earlier, it'll catch the second
attempt rather than the missed (or infinitely delayed) unblock.  I don't
think it matters too much, and I don't see a nice way to capture the
other task (do a backtrace to a buffer somewhere in a special debug mode
...?)

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Matthew Wilcox <matthew@wil.cx>
To: Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>
Cc: Brian King <brking@us.ibm.com>,
	linux-pci@atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz, linux-pm@lists.osdl.org,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Greg KH <greg@kroah.com>,
	Adam Belay <abelay@MIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] Block on access to temporarily unavailable pci device
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 11:14:18 -0600	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20061018171418.GV22289@parisc-linux.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1161189592.9363.81.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Wed, Oct 18, 2006 at 05:39:52PM +0100, Alan Cox wrote:
> > The current user is limited to a two-second delay and the one I'm
> > proposing introducing is a delay measued in milli- or microseconds.
> > An extra two-second delay while you BIST your IPR device and change
> > modes in X at the same time (does X really scan all devices when it's
> > changing mode settings?  That's odd) doesn't strike me as a huge failure.
> 
> X scans all the devices when it sets up so only a video device one would
> hang mid mode set.

OK.  So the only possible X interaction currently is a D-state transition.

> > You fail the operation if it returns busy.  Or you loop.  It's really up
> > to you, the driver author.  You know what operation you're trying to do,
> > you know what makes more sense.
> 
> But I've no idea who, what or why and that makes it hard to handle. If
> the thing refcounts then if there are two reasons to be blocked we are
> fine and the last reason goes away we resume - it does make it more easy
> to make mistakes. If it isnt ref counting I'd prefer block repeated is a
> BUG() not a "driver figure this out"

Thinking about this a bit more, we only *need* to block userspace from
accessing a device while it's going to cause lockups if we access the
device.  And we'll cause the lockup ourselves if we try to do more than
one of these operations at a time.  So BUG_ON is clearly the right
approach.  Of course, the backtrace might well finger the wrong culprit --
if someone forgot to release the block earlier, it'll catch the second
attempt rather than the missed (or infinitely delayed) unblock.  I don't
think it matters too much, and I don't see a nice way to capture the
other task (do a backtrace to a buffer somewhere in a special debug mode
...?)

  reply	other threads:[~2006-10-18 17:14 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 34+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2006-10-17 14:51 [PATCH] Block on access to temporarily unavailable pci device Matthew Wilcox
2006-10-17 14:54 ` Matthew Wilcox
2006-10-17 21:25 ` Brian King
2006-10-18 14:38   ` [linux-pm] " Alan Stern
2006-10-18 14:38     ` Alan Stern
2006-10-18 14:51     ` Matthew Wilcox
2006-10-18 14:51       ` [linux-pm] " Matthew Wilcox
2006-10-18 15:52       ` Alan Stern
2006-10-18 15:52         ` Alan Stern
2006-10-18 16:05         ` Alan Cox
2006-10-18 16:05           ` [linux-pm] " Alan Cox
2006-10-18 16:09           ` Matthew Wilcox
2006-10-18 16:42             ` Alan Cox
2006-10-18 16:42               ` [linux-pm] " Alan Cox
2006-10-18 14:51   ` Matthew Wilcox
2006-10-18 14:57     ` Matthew Wilcox
2006-10-18 15:12     ` Nick Piggin
2006-10-18 15:16       ` Matthew Wilcox
2006-10-18 15:16         ` Matthew Wilcox
2006-10-18 15:27         ` Nick Piggin
2006-10-18 15:27           ` Nick Piggin
2006-10-18 15:50     ` Alan Cox
2006-10-18 15:50       ` Alan Cox
2006-10-18 16:20       ` Matthew Wilcox
2006-10-18 16:39         ` Alan Cox
2006-10-18 16:39           ` Alan Cox
2006-10-18 17:14           ` Matthew Wilcox [this message]
2006-10-18 17:14             ` Matthew Wilcox
2006-10-19 15:41 ` [PATCH] Block on access to temporarily unavailable pci device [version 3] Matthew Wilcox
2006-10-19 16:32   ` Alan Cox
2006-10-19 23:13   ` Adam Belay
2006-10-19 23:51     ` Greg KH
2006-10-19 23:51       ` Greg KH
2006-10-20 21:50   ` Brian King

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