kernel+userspace based nfsd running in parallel on linux?

kernel+userspace based nfsd running in parallel on linux?

[devzero]

Hello !

for a special scenario, i´m thinking about running the classic userspace nfsd in parallel with the kernel based.

i think this _could_ be possible by binding the userspace one to the primary interface (eth0, ip 1.2.3.4) and the kernel based one to a virtual interface (eth0:1, ip 1.2.3.5)

i have done similar with other daemons, providing services on the same ports, but on different interfaces - think of apache ip-based virtual hosting which serves www.domaina.com on 1.2.3.4:80 and www.domainb.com on 1.2.3.5:80

since i`m unsure if this would work, can you experts give a comment if this should at least be possible in theory ?

if there isn´t a killer argument against this (does not work by design because...), i would like to try to elaborate to make this work. if this fails because there is no way to specify a dedicated interface to listen on - maybe this could be fixed with some few modifications to the code...

regards
roland


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Re: kernel+userspace based nfsd running in parallel on linux?

[Bernd Schubert]

Hi Roland,

On Saturday 16 December 2006 16:20, devzero@web.de wrote:
> Hello !
>
> for a special scenario, i´m thinking about running the classic
> userspace nfsd in parallel with the kernel based.

we are are already doing this for a long time.

>
> i think this _could_ be possible by binding the userspace one to the
> primary interface (eth0, ip 1.2.3.4) and the kernel based one to a virtual
> interface (eth0:1, ip 1.2.3.5)

Hmm, I thing this is presently not possible. I might be wrong, but I think =

neither knfsd nor any userspace nfs daemon presently supports binding to =

selected interfaces. Thinks they alsways bind to all interfaces.
We doing it by using different ports for the daemons, knfsd is running as =

usual on 2049 and unfsd (unfs3) is running on another port.  One also needs =

to tell one of the daemon not to register to the portmapper, unfs3 also =

supports that.

[...]

> if there isn´t a killer argument against this (does not work by desi=
gn
> because...), i would like to try to elaborate to make this work. if this
> fails because there is no way to specify a dedicated interface to listen =
on
> - maybe this could be fixed with some few modifications to the code...

Any argument against simply using different ports?

Cheers,
Bernd

-- =

Bernd Schubert
PCI / Theoretische Chemie
Universit=E4t Heidelberg
INF 229
69120 Heidelberg


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Re: kernel+userspace based nfsd running in parallel on linux?

[devzero]

Hi Bernd, =


> we are are already doing this for a long time.

any caveats with this? just tune one of both to use different port ?

> Hmm, I thing this is presently not possible. I might be wrong, but I thin=
k =

> neither knfsd nor any userspace nfs daemon presently supports binding to =

> selected interfaces. Thinks they alsways bind to all interfaces.

i wonder very often, why there are so many applications out there which act=
ually _DON`T_  support this. if you are a security aware person, this is a =
very nice feature to be able to make your box more secure, without any fire=
walling at all. an interface which isn`t actually listening is more secure =
than one being firewalled, because you could have misconfigured your firewa=
ll or it could be down by accident. such feature gives so much greater flex=
ibility - i wished i would be able to tell "-bind 1.2.3.4:1234" instead of =
just "-port 1234" to every type of application opening a listening socket.

> We doing it by using different ports for the daemons, knfsd is running as =

> usual on 2049 and unfsd (unfs3) is running on another port.  One also nee=
ds =

> to tell one of the daemon not to register to the portmapper, unfs3 also =

> supports that.

ah, thanks - this looks like one of those "caveats". btw - what about using=
 userspace nfsd via xinetd? xinetd supports binding to dedicated interfaces.

> > if there isn´t a killer argument against this (does not work by de=
sign
> > because...), i would like to try to elaborate to make this work. if this
> > fails because there is no way to specify a dedicated interface to liste=
n on
> > - maybe this could be fixed with some few modifications to the code...
> =

> Any argument against simply using different ports?

ease of use for the clients? (because it´s easier to tell them to conn=
ect to a different ip than to a different port) - what if the client doesn`=
t support connecting to different port (ok, don`t know details yet about nf=
s clients and specifying ports - but i know many apps which are not able to=
 use another port than the standard/default one.

thanks!

roland

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Re: kernel+userspace based nfsd running in parallel on linux?

[Peter Åstrand]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: TEXT/PLAIN, Size: 646 bytes --]

On Sat, 16 Dec 2006, devzero@web.de wrote:

> > Hmm, I thing this is presently not possible. I might be wrong, but I think 
> > neither knfsd nor any userspace nfs daemon presently supports binding to 
> > selected interfaces. Thinks they alsways bind to all interfaces.
> 
> i wonder very often, why there are so many applications out there which 
> actually _DON`T_ support this. if you are a security aware person, this 

Actually, unfs3 does support this. Just use the -l argument. 

Regards, 
---
Peter Åstrand		ThinLinc Chief Developer
Cendio AB		http://www.cendio.se
Teknikringen 3
583 30 Linköping	Phone: +46-13-21 46 00

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Re: kernel+userspace based nfsd running in parallel on linux?

[devzero]

thanks - i just came across unfs3 some hours ago after searching this list =
for a while - i didn´t know that there exists a nfsv3 userspace implem=
entation.

so - maybe it`s a good replacement for classic userspace nfsd and i don`t n=
eed knfsd at all - looks like it also supports files >2gb.

will give it a try!



> -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Peter =C5strand <astrand@cendio.se>
> Gesendet: 16.12.06 22:01:53
> An: devzero@web.de
> CC: Bernd Schubert <bernd-schubert@gmx.de>, nfs@lists.sourceforge.net
> Betreff: Re: [NFS] kernel+userspace based nfsd running in parallel  on li=
nux?


> On Sat, 16 Dec 2006, devzero@web.de wrote:
> =

> > > Hmm, I thing this is presently not possible. I might be wrong, but I =
think =

> > > neither knfsd nor any userspace nfs daemon presently supports binding=
 to =

> > > selected interfaces. Thinks they alsways bind to all interfaces.
> > =

> > i wonder very often, why there are so many applications out there which =

> > actually _DON`T_ support this. if you are a security aware person, this =

> =

> Actually, unfs3 does support this. Just use the -l argument. =

> =

> Regards, =

> ---
> Peter =C3&#65533;strand		ThinLinc Chief Developer
> Cendio AB		http://www.cendio.se
> Teknikringen 3
> 583 30 Link=C3=B6ping	Phone: +46-13-21 46 00
> =



___________________________________________________________________________=
___
"Ein Herz f=FCr Kinder" - Ihre Spende hilft! Aktion: www.deutschlandsegelt.=
de
Unser Dankesch=F6n: Ihr Name auf dem Segel der 1. deutschen America's Cup-Y=
acht!


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Re: kernel+userspace based nfsd running in parallel on linux?

[Olaf Kirch]

On Sat, Dec 16, 2006 at 05:17:30PM +0100, Bernd Schubert wrote:
> Hmm, I thing this is presently not possible. I might be wrong, but I think 
> neither knfsd nor any userspace nfs daemon presently supports binding to 
> selected interfaces. Thinks they alsways bind to all interfaces.
> We doing it by using different ports for the daemons, knfsd is running as 
> usual on 2049 and unfsd (unfs3) is running on another port.  One also needs 
> to tell one of the daemon not to register to the portmapper, unfs3 also 
> supports that.

The big problem will be mountd. There's only one portmapper, and you
can register only one mountd - and the file handles given out by unfs
mountd don't work with the kernel nfsd and vice versa.

Oh, and what about locking? :)

Olaf
-- 
Olaf Kirch   |  --- o --- Nous sommes du soleil we love when we play
okir@suse.de |    / | \   sol.dhoop.naytheet.ah kin.ir.samse.qurax

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Re: kernel+userspace based nfsd running in parallel on linux?

[devzero]

>Oh, and what about locking? :)

good point - but not an issue here, because i only need to export read-only.

> -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Olaf Kirch <okir@suse.de>
> Gesendet: 16.12.06 22:55:45
> An: Bernd Schubert <bernd-schubert@gmx.de>
> CC: nfs@lists.sourceforge.net
> Betreff: Re: [NFS] kernel+userspace based nfsd running in parallel on lin=
ux?


> On Sat, Dec 16, 2006 at 05:17:30PM +0100, Bernd Schubert wrote:
> > Hmm, I thing this is presently not possible. I might be wrong, but I th=
ink =

> > neither knfsd nor any userspace nfs daemon presently supports binding t=
o =

> > selected interfaces. Thinks they alsways bind to all interfaces.
> > We doing it by using different ports for the daemons, knfsd is running =
as =

> > usual on 2049 and unfsd (unfs3) is running on another port.  One also n=
eeds =

> > to tell one of the daemon not to register to the portmapper, unfs3 also =

> > supports that.
> =

> The big problem will be mountd. There's only one portmapper, and you
> can register only one mountd - and the file handles given out by unfs
> mountd don't work with the kernel nfsd and vice versa.
> =

> Oh, and what about locking? :)
> =

> Olaf
> -- =

> Olaf Kirch   |  --- o --- Nous sommes du soleil we love when we play
> okir@suse.de |    / | \   sol.dhoop.naytheet.ah kin.ir.samse.qurax
> =



___________________________________________________________________________=
___
"Ein Herz f=FCr Kinder" - Ihre Spende hilft! Aktion: www.deutschlandsegelt.=
de
Unser Dankesch=F6n: Ihr Name auf dem Segel der 1. deutschen America's Cup-Y=
acht!


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Re: kernel+userspace based nfsd running in parallel on linux?

[Peter Åstrand]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: TEXT/PLAIN, Size: 810 bytes --]

On Sat, 16 Dec 2006, Olaf Kirch wrote:

> > to tell one of the daemon not to register to the portmapper, unfs3 also 
> > supports that.
> 
> The big problem will be mountd. There's only one portmapper, and you
> can register only one mountd - and the file handles given out by unfs
> mountd don't work with the kernel nfsd and vice versa.

This is no problem, you can run both the nfs and mount service without the 
portmapper. They can even run on the same port. So, typically you run 
unfs3 with:

unfsd -n 4711 -m 4711 -p

...and then mount with:

mount -t nfs -o mountvers=3,mountport=4711,nfsvers=3,port=4711,tcp server:/path /local/path

Regards, 
---
Peter Åstrand		ThinLinc Chief Developer
Cendio AB		http://www.cendio.se
Teknikringen 3
583 30 Linköping	Phone: +46-13-21 46 00

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Re: kernel+userspace based nfsd running in parallel on linux?

[Olaf Kirch]

On Sun, Dec 17, 2006 at 11:25:45AM +0100, Peter =C5strand wrote:
> This is no problem, you can run both the nfs and mount service without th=
e =

> portmapper. They can even run on the same port. So, typically you run =


Yeah, I know. But is that what he was asking for?

Olaf
-- =

Olaf Kirch   |  --- o --- Nous sommes du soleil we love when we play
okir@suse.de |    / | \   sol.dhoop.naytheet.ah kin.ir.samse.qurax

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Re: kernel+userspace based nfsd running in parallel on linux?

[Peter Åstrand]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: TEXT/PLAIN, Size: 473 bytes --]

On Sat, 16 Dec 2006, devzero@web.de wrote:

> >Oh, and what about locking? :)
> 
> good point - but not an issue here, because i only need to export read-only.

Would it at all be possible to support NLM in a userspace NFS server? 

In either case, I guess it won't work for us, since we are using SSH 
tunnels...

Regards, 
---
Peter Åstrand		ThinLinc Chief Developer
Cendio AB		http://www.cendio.se
Teknikringen 3
583 30 Linköping	Phone: +46-13-21 46 00

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