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From: Bernd Schubert <bs@q-leap.de>
To: Michael Tokarev <mjt@tls.msk.ru>,
	Goswin von Brederlow <brederlo@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de>
Cc: Neil Brown <neilb@suse.de>, David Greaves <david@dgreaves.com>,
	linux-raid@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-hotplug-devel@lists.sourceforge.net,
	416512@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: removed disk && md-device
Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 09:22:17 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <200705111122.17389.bs@q-leap.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <46442E9C.3050603@msgid.tls.msk.ru>

On Friday 11 May 2007 10:51:40 Michael Tokarev wrote:
> Neil Brown wrote:
> []
>
> >> But joggling a usb stick (similar to your use case) would probably be OK
> >> since it would be hot-removed and then hot-added.
> >
> > This still needs user-space interaction.
> > If the USB layer detects a removal and a re-insert, sdb may well come
> > back a something different (sdp?) - though I'm not completely familiar
> > with how USB storage works.
>
> This is in fact an.. interesting issue.
>
> Suppose I pulled the USB cable of sdb -- the WRONG one -- by a mistake.
> I noticed this immediately (since the led on the disk stopped lighting),
> and plugged the cable back again.  There was no write requests to the
> array during this time, there was no ANY requests to it at all, it was
> completely idle.
>
> But.
>
> The unplug immediately triggers USB device removal.  But md subsystem still
> holds a reference to (now orphan) sdb.  So upon plugging it back, since
> sdb is busy, scsi subsystem (which handles USB disks) grabs first available
> sdX device, let's say it'll be sdp.
>
> So we've orphan sdb which is "in use" by the array, and fresh new sdp,
> which is unused but contains the orphaned array component.
>
> And there's no way to hot-re-add sdp to the array (there's nothing to do
> to the array itself!) but.. to powercycle the machine!  Because on
> hot-remove, event count will be updated on the still-plugged-in device
> (sda let it be), and upon hot-add, md will start resyncing.  Oh well...
> (the only help from md subsystem here is in case if it is using bitmaps,
> but that's different issue.)

Yep, thats exactly what I'm talking about and its not only limited to usb, but 
happens with sata as well.


Bernd


-- 
Bernd Schubert
Q-Leap Networks GmbH

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WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Bernd Schubert <bs@q-leap.de>
To: Michael Tokarev <mjt@tls.msk.ru>,
	Goswin von Brederlow <brederlo@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de>
Cc: Neil Brown <neilb@suse.de>, David Greaves <david@dgreaves.com>,
	linux-raid@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-hotplug-devel@lists.sourceforge.net,
	416512@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: removed disk && md-device
Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 11:22:17 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <200705111122.17389.bs@q-leap.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <46442E9C.3050603@msgid.tls.msk.ru>

On Friday 11 May 2007 10:51:40 Michael Tokarev wrote:
> Neil Brown wrote:
> []
>
> >> But joggling a usb stick (similar to your use case) would probably be OK
> >> since it would be hot-removed and then hot-added.
> >
> > This still needs user-space interaction.
> > If the USB layer detects a removal and a re-insert, sdb may well come
> > back a something different (sdp?) - though I'm not completely familiar
> > with how USB storage works.
>
> This is in fact an.. interesting issue.
>
> Suppose I pulled the USB cable of sdb -- the WRONG one -- by a mistake.
> I noticed this immediately (since the led on the disk stopped lighting),
> and plugged the cable back again.  There was no write requests to the
> array during this time, there was no ANY requests to it at all, it was
> completely idle.
>
> But.
>
> The unplug immediately triggers USB device removal.  But md subsystem still
> holds a reference to (now orphan) sdb.  So upon plugging it back, since
> sdb is busy, scsi subsystem (which handles USB disks) grabs first available
> sdX device, let's say it'll be sdp.
>
> So we've orphan sdb which is "in use" by the array, and fresh new sdp,
> which is unused but contains the orphaned array component.
>
> And there's no way to hot-re-add sdp to the array (there's nothing to do
> to the array itself!) but.. to powercycle the machine!  Because on
> hot-remove, event count will be updated on the still-plugged-in device
> (sda let it be), and upon hot-add, md will start resyncing.  Oh well...
> (the only help from md subsystem here is in case if it is using bitmaps,
> but that's different issue.)

Yep, thats exactly what I'm talking about and its not only limited to usb, but 
happens with sata as well.


Bernd


-- 
Bernd Schubert
Q-Leap Networks GmbH

  reply	other threads:[~2007-05-11  9:22 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 36+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2007-05-09 12:17 removed disk && md-device Bernd Schubert
2007-05-09 12:17 ` Bernd Schubert
2007-05-09 13:14 ` martin f krafft
2007-05-09 13:14   ` martin f krafft
2007-05-09 13:39   ` Bernd Schubert
2007-05-09 13:39     ` Bernd Schubert
2007-05-10  7:12     ` Neil Brown
2007-05-10  7:12       ` Neil Brown
2007-05-10 14:33       ` David Greaves
2007-05-10 14:33         ` David Greaves
2007-05-11  1:36         ` Neil Brown
2007-05-11  1:36           ` Neil Brown
2007-05-11  8:51           ` Michael Tokarev
2007-05-11  8:51             ` Michael Tokarev
2007-05-11  9:22             ` Bernd Schubert [this message]
2007-05-11  9:22               ` Bernd Schubert
2007-05-11 20:39               ` Bill Davidsen
2007-05-11 20:39                 ` Bill Davidsen
2007-05-15  9:52                 ` Goswin von Brederlow
2007-05-15  9:52                   ` Goswin von Brederlow
2007-05-11  8:52           ` David Greaves
2007-05-11  8:52             ` David Greaves
2007-05-11 15:05           ` David Greaves
2007-05-11 15:05             ` David Greaves
2007-05-11 20:50           ` David Greaves
2007-05-11 20:50             ` David Greaves
2007-05-10 18:17       ` Bernd Schubert
2007-05-10 18:17         ` Bernd Schubert
2007-05-11  6:16       ` Neil Brown
2007-05-11  6:16         ` Neil Brown
2007-05-11 20:47         ` Bill Davidsen
2007-05-11 20:47           ` Bill Davidsen
2007-05-16 21:19       ` Colin McCabe
2007-05-16 21:19         ` Colin McCabe
2007-05-09 21:41 ` Michael Tokarev
2007-05-09 21:41   ` Michael Tokarev

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