Kernel Packages/Modules and Versioning

Kernel Packages/Modules and Versioning

[Graeme Gregory]

Hi, writing this with my OpenMoko hat on.

Currently kernel modules create packages with names of the form

kernel-module-umaga_${PV}-${PR}.ipk

This I feel is not a good idea for mobile system that can have package
upgrades in the field. It is my feeling that kernel modules/images
should never upgrade without attendance from the user.

On reason for this is to make sure user is plugged into sufficient
power and has facilities to fix device before doing such a drastic
upgrade.

I would like to suggest all kernel packages are actually packaged as

kernel-module-umaga-${PV}_${RELEASE_NO}-${PV}.ipk

and that a kernel-updater is developed to guide user through kernel
upgrades with less danger of broken devices at the end.

Obviously some policy would be needed so that ${RELEASE_NO}-${PV} is
guaranteed to load on all kernel-image-${PV} kernels.

Anyway I thought I would expose this to the wider audience for more
comments than just openmoko lists. I know this is suitable for all
devices so Id like opinions.

Graeme

Re: Kernel Packages/Modules and Versioning

[Koen Kooi]

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Graeme Gregory schreef:
> Hi, writing this with my OpenMoko hat on.

Put the kernel in the rootfs instead of in some partition :)


> Currently kernel modules create packages with names of the form
> 
> kernel-module-umaga_${PV}-${PR}.ipk
> 
> This I feel is not a good idea for mobile system that can have package
> upgrades in the field. It is my feeling that kernel modules/images
> should never upgrade without attendance from the user.

The user had to type 'ipkg upgrade' him/herself, right?

> On reason for this is to make sure user is plugged into sufficient
> power and has facilities to fix device before doing such a drastic
> upgrade.

The user had to type 'ipkg upgrade' him/herself, right?

> I would like to suggest all kernel packages are actually packaged as
> 
> kernel-module-umaga-${PV}_${RELEASE_NO}-${PV}.ipk

That is what PARALLEL_INSTALL_MODULES did and we removed that from OE.

> and that a kernel-updater is developed to guide user through kernel
> upgrades with less danger of broken devices at the end.

Your proposal would make it real easy for people to overfill their flash
by having multiple module trees in /lib/module/

> Obviously some policy would be needed so that ${RELEASE_NO}-${PV} is
> guaranteed to load on all kernel-image-${PV} kernels.
> 
> Anyway I thought I would expose this to the wider audience for more
> comments than just openmoko lists. I know this is suitable for all
> devices so Id like opinions.

We have to distinguish the case of kernel-in-rootfs and
kernel-in-own-partition before starting to discuss this.

Related: why is kernel-image packaged as kernel-image-PV_PV-PR.ipk? I
now have 5 kernel images in /boot on my a780....

regards,

Koen


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Re: Kernel Packages/Modules and Versioning

[Richard Purdie]

On Thu, 2007-10-25 at 12:00 +0100, Graeme Gregory wrote:
> Currently kernel modules create packages with names of the form
> 
> kernel-module-umaga_${PV}-${PR}.ipk
> 
> This I feel is not a good idea for mobile system that can have package
> upgrades in the field. It is my feeling that kernel modules/images
> should never upgrade without attendance from the user.
> 
> On reason for this is to make sure user is plugged into sufficient
> power and has facilities to fix device before doing such a drastic
> upgrade.
> 
> I would like to suggest all kernel packages are actually packaged as
> 
> kernel-module-umaga-${PV}_${RELEASE_NO}-${PV}.ipk
> 
> and that a kernel-updater is developed to guide user through kernel
> upgrades with less danger of broken devices at the end.
> 
> Obviously some policy would be needed so that ${RELEASE_NO}-${PV} is
> guaranteed to load on all kernel-image-${PV} kernels.
> 
> Anyway I thought I would expose this to the wider audience for more
> comments than just openmoko lists. I know this is suitable for all
> devices so Id like opinions.

Putting on the devils advocate hat, why not enhance ipkg or whatever so
kernel-modules-* is blacklisted and warns the user an update is
available but to install it see/do "foo".

Trying to solve this package management/user issue that deeply in the
build system doesn't seem an entirely good idea.

On a technical level, do we like task-base rrecommending
"kernel-module-umaga-${PV}"? How/when do you upgrade task-base? or do we
then need "task-base-${PV}"?

Cheers,

Richard

Re: Kernel Packages/Modules and Versioning

[Stelios Koroneos]

> This I feel is not a good idea for mobile system that can have package
> upgrades in the field. It is my feeling that kernel modules/images
> should never upgrade without attendance from the user.
>

Not all devices that use OE are mobile :)

> On reason for this is to make sure user is plugged into sufficient
> power and has facilities to fix device before doing such a drastic
> upgrade.

Well in that case it should be the device that should allow/disallow the
user from updating in general.
Its the only point where you can have this kind of information and be
accurate

My 2 cents are that it should be left generic and device specific issues
could be handled by a modified ipkg tool probably

Stelios S. Koroneos

Digital OPSiS - Embedded Intelligence
http://www.digital-opsis.com


> -----Original Message-----
> From: openembedded-devel-bounces@openembedded.org
> [mailto:openembedded-devel-bounces@openembedded.org]On Behalf Of
> Graeme Gregory
> Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:01 PM
> To: openembedded-devel@openembedded.org
> Subject: [oe] Kernel Packages/Modules and Versioning
>
>
> Hi, writing this with my OpenMoko hat on.
>
> Currently kernel modules create packages with names of the form
>
> kernel-module-umaga_${PV}-${PR}.ipk
>
>
> I would like to suggest all kernel packages are actually packaged as
>
> kernel-module-umaga-${PV}_${RELEASE_NO}-${PV}.ipk
>
> and that a kernel-updater is developed to guide user through kernel
> upgrades with less danger of broken devices at the end.
>
> Obviously some policy would be needed so that ${RELEASE_NO}-${PV} is
> guaranteed to load on all kernel-image-${PV} kernels.
>
> Anyway I thought I would expose this to the wider audience for more
> comments than just openmoko lists. I know this is suitable for all
> devices so Id like opinions.
>
> Graeme
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openembedded-devel mailing list
> Openembedded-devel@lists.openembedded.org
> http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openembedded-devel
>

Re: Kernel Packages/Modules and Versioning

[Graeme Gregory]

On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 12:00:35 +0100
Graeme Gregory <dp@xora.org.uk> wrote:

> Anyway I thought I would expose this to the wider audience for more
> comments than just openmoko lists. I know this is suitable for all
> devices so Id like opinions.
> 
s/is suitable/IS NOT suitable/

Graeme