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From: Willy Tarreau <w@1wt.eu>
To: Andi Kleen <andi@firstfloor.org>
Cc: Nick Piggin <nickpiggin@yahoo.com.au>,
	Roel Kluin <12o3l@tiscali.nl>,
	lkml <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	linuxppc-dev@ozlabs.org, cbe-oss-dev@ozlabs.org,
	Arjan van de Ven <arjan@infradead.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 1/3] Fix Unlikely(x) == y
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 08:32:45 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20080220073245.GA28524@1wt.eu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20080219092846.GB6485@one.firstfloor.org>

On Tue, Feb 19, 2008 at 10:28:46AM +0100, Andi Kleen wrote:
> > Sometimes, for performance critical paths, I would like gcc to be dumb and
> > follow *my* code and not its hard-coded probabilities. 
> 
> If you really want that, simple: just disable optimization @)

already tried. It fixed some difficulties, but create new expected issues
with data being reloaded often from memory instead of being passed along
a few registers. Don't forget that optimizing for x86 requires a lot of
smartness from the compiler because of the very small number of registers!

> > Maybe one thing we would need would be the ability to assign probabilities
> > to each branch based on what we expect, so that gcc could build a better
> > tree keeping most frequently used code tight.
> 
> Just use profile feedback then for user space. I don't think it's a good
> idea for kernel code though because it leads to unreproducible binaries
> which would wreck the development model.

I never found this to be practically usable in fact, because you have to
use it on the *exact* same source. End of game for cross-compilation. It
would be good to be able to use a few pragmas in the code to say "hey, I
want this block optimized like this". This is what I understood the
__builtin_expect() was for, except that it tends to throw unpredicted
branches too far away.

> > Hmm I've just noticed -fno-guess-branch-probability in the man, I never tried
> > it.
> 
> Or -fno-reorder-blocks

Thanks for the hint, I will try it.

Willy

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Willy Tarreau <w@1wt.eu>
To: Andi Kleen <andi@firstfloor.org>
Cc: Nick Piggin <nickpiggin@yahoo.com.au>,
	Arjan van de Ven <arjan@infradead.org>,
	Roel Kluin <12o3l@tiscali.nl>,
	geoffrey.levand@am.sony.com, linuxppc-dev@ozlabs.org,
	cbe-oss-dev@ozlabs.org, lkml <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 1/3] Fix Unlikely(x) == y
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 08:32:45 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20080220073245.GA28524@1wt.eu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20080219092846.GB6485@one.firstfloor.org>

On Tue, Feb 19, 2008 at 10:28:46AM +0100, Andi Kleen wrote:
> > Sometimes, for performance critical paths, I would like gcc to be dumb and
> > follow *my* code and not its hard-coded probabilities. 
> 
> If you really want that, simple: just disable optimization @)

already tried. It fixed some difficulties, but create new expected issues
with data being reloaded often from memory instead of being passed along
a few registers. Don't forget that optimizing for x86 requires a lot of
smartness from the compiler because of the very small number of registers!

> > Maybe one thing we would need would be the ability to assign probabilities
> > to each branch based on what we expect, so that gcc could build a better
> > tree keeping most frequently used code tight.
> 
> Just use profile feedback then for user space. I don't think it's a good
> idea for kernel code though because it leads to unreproducible binaries
> which would wreck the development model.

I never found this to be practically usable in fact, because you have to
use it on the *exact* same source. End of game for cross-compilation. It
would be good to be able to use a few pragmas in the code to say "hey, I
want this block optimized like this". This is what I understood the
__builtin_expect() was for, except that it tends to throw unpredicted
branches too far away.

> > Hmm I've just noticed -fno-guess-branch-probability in the man, I never tried
> > it.
> 
> Or -fno-reorder-blocks

Thanks for the hint, I will try it.

Willy


  reply	other threads:[~2008-02-20  7:32 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 65+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2008-02-16 16:08 [PATCH 1/3] Fix Unlikely(x) == y Roel Kluin
2008-02-16 17:25 ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-02-16 17:25   ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-02-16 17:33   ` Willy Tarreau
2008-02-16 17:33     ` Willy Tarreau
2008-02-16 17:42     ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-02-16 17:42       ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-02-16 17:58       ` Willy Tarreau
2008-02-16 17:58         ` Willy Tarreau
2008-02-16 18:29         ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-02-16 18:29           ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-02-17  9:45         ` [Cbe-oss-dev] " Andrew Pinski
2008-02-17  9:45           ` Andrew Pinski
2008-02-17 10:08           ` Willy Tarreau
2008-02-17 10:08             ` Willy Tarreau
2008-02-16 18:31       ` Geoff Levand
2008-02-16 18:31         ` Geoff Levand
2008-02-16 18:39         ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-02-16 18:39           ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-02-17 11:50           ` Michael Ellerman
2008-02-17 11:50             ` Michael Ellerman
2008-02-18 13:56             ` Adrian Bunk
2008-02-18 13:56               ` Adrian Bunk
2008-02-18 14:01               ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2008-02-18 14:01                 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2008-02-18 14:13                 ` Adrian Bunk
2008-02-18 14:13                   ` Adrian Bunk
2008-02-18 21:46                   ` Michael Ellerman
2008-02-18 21:46                     ` Michael Ellerman
2008-02-19  7:43                     ` Adrian Bunk
2008-02-19  7:43                       ` Adrian Bunk
2008-02-18 14:27                 ` David Howells
2008-02-18 14:27                   ` David Howells
2008-02-18 14:59                   ` Roel Kluin
2008-02-18 14:59                     ` Roel Kluin
2008-02-18 18:11                   ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2008-02-18 18:11                     ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2008-02-18 18:33                     ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-02-18 18:33                       ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-02-18 19:22                 ` [Cbe-oss-dev] " Andrew Pinski
2008-02-18 14:39       ` Andi Kleen
2008-02-18 14:39         ` Andi Kleen
2008-02-19  2:33         ` Nick Piggin
2008-02-19  2:33           ` Nick Piggin
2008-02-19  2:40           ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-02-19  2:40             ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-02-19  4:41             ` Nick Piggin
2008-02-19  4:41               ` Nick Piggin
2008-02-19  5:58           ` Willy Tarreau
2008-02-19  5:58             ` Willy Tarreau
2008-02-19  6:20             ` Nick Piggin
2008-02-19  6:20               ` Nick Piggin
2008-02-19  9:28             ` Andi Kleen
2008-02-19  9:28               ` Andi Kleen
2008-02-20  7:32               ` Willy Tarreau [this message]
2008-02-20  7:32                 ` Willy Tarreau
2008-02-19  9:25           ` Andi Kleen
2008-02-19  9:25             ` Andi Kleen
2008-02-19  9:46             ` Nick Piggin
2008-02-19  9:46               ` Nick Piggin
2008-02-19  9:57               ` Andi Kleen
2008-02-19  9:57                 ` Andi Kleen
2008-02-19 22:25                 ` Nick Piggin
2008-02-19 22:25                   ` Nick Piggin
2008-02-16 18:41 ` Geoff Levand

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