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* grub.efi x86_64 on Apple 64bit efi models - status of testing
@ 2009-02-09 12:24 Peter Cros
  2009-02-09 12:38 ` step21
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Peter Cros @ 2009-02-09 12:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Grub-devel

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 I have got to a standstill with this, some major stoppers found and could
use some help to debug further. I hope someone can take a look at this
please, its getting beyond my limited C code reading and hacking
capabilities, but I do want to see grub.efi working on current Apple Intel
Macs.

Apple Linux/OSX users can benefit from grub.efi major advantages over the
Apple pc-bios emulation which cannot boot external drives and has other
installation problems for Linux users. Apple Mac users multi-booting
GNU/Linux and Mac OSX are a good testing ground for EFI booting. A number of
people in the ubuntuforums have tested grub.efi x86 and x86_64 on Apple
intel Macs from intel core2duo on. There have also been some recent reported
problems posted on grub-devel list.

I have not seen anything for IA32/64 machines.

From early 2008, Macs have been using 64bit EFI, needing x86_64 grub.efi,
and I have posted on ubuntuforums a full x86_64 grub.efi package with all
modules and grub.cfg for people to try.

No one has been able to get x86_64 grub.efi to boot and run either Mac OSX
(boot.efi) or ubuntu 810 2.6.27 kernels (configured for EFI). All this works
well for x86 grub.efi on Intel Macs with the earlier 32 bit firmware.

-------------------------------

Three specific issues are stopping useful testing -

1. Mac models from imac8,1 early 2008 are unable to boot grub.efi 64bit when
4GB RAM is fitted.
  Dropping to 2GB RAM enables grub.efi to boot and display grub.cfg  menu
with fully functional command line. This leads to the next problems -

2. The grub.efi chainloader command fails to load
/usr/standalone/i386/boot.efi, reporting ' error: cannot load image '

3. grub.efi successfully loads ubuntu x86 2.6.7-7 kernel ( or earlier debian
2.6.26 ) using command line or menuentry, but the boot fails.

After boot command, the boot screen goes to black and no further progress
seen,
except in one case some garbled video indicating possible boot but failure
to init.

4. Finally, there was a problem getting ubuntu 810 amd64 to complete
initialization after booting in earlier 32 bit grub.efi tests, and other
issues with accelerated graphics and keyboard. - Not yet the issue here.

-------------------------

I got as far as locating the area in the grub2 code as shown in the attached
diffs of commented files, and will continue to look throught the code, or
can try any suggested debugging. I have some access to an Imac8,1 MacBook
Pro 4,1 and a MacBook2,1.
( So far using set debug=all or selective, grub_printf(); grub_getkey();
asm volatile ("ret" : : ); )

But I am not a programmer and need help to go further. The x86 32 bit
grub.efi functions very well on MacBook2,1 and other earlier 32 bit EFI
Apples, but the later models need the x86_64 build, and at present it is not
functional at all.  The Apple firmware and EFI seems to need special
treatment.

-------------------------
Diffs - ( these are just grub2 rev 1972 commented 'pxwdebug' to show where I
got to )

Diff 1. Failing to run grub.efi with 4GB RAM.

grub2 r=1972

--- grub2a/kern/x86_64/efi/startup.S    2009-02-04 17:04:14.000000000 +1100
+++ grub2b/kern/x86_64/efi/startup.S    2009-02-09 18:19:32.000000000 +1100
@@ -57,10 +57,12 @@ VARIABLE(grub_prefix)
 codestart:

     movq    %rcx, EXT_C(grub_efi_image_handle)
     movq    %rdx, EXT_C(grub_efi_system_table)

+/*pxwdebug - with 4GB RAM,  startup hangs before the call */
+
     call    EXT_C(grub_main)
     ret

-------------------------

Diff 2. Failure of efi chainloader for Mac OSX

grub2 r=1972

--- grub2a/loader/efi/chainloader.c    2009-02-04 17:04:22.000000000 +1100
+++ grub2b/loader/efi/chainloader.c    2009-02-09 17:50:35.000000000 +1100
@@ -253,21 +253,21 @@ grub_rescue_cmd_chainloader (int argc, c
       if (grub_errno == GRUB_ERR_NONE)
     grub_error (GRUB_ERR_BAD_OS, "too small");

       goto fail;
     }
-
+/* pxwdebug macosx 10.4 10.5 fail to load with grub.efi x86_64 */
   status = efi_call_6 (b->load_image, 0, grub_efi_image_handle, file_path,
               (void *) ((grub_addr_t) address), size,
               &image_handle);
   if (status != GRUB_EFI_SUCCESS)
     {
       if (status == GRUB_EFI_OUT_OF_RESOURCES)
     grub_error (GRUB_ERR_OUT_OF_MEMORY, "out of resources");
       else
     grub_error (GRUB_ERR_BAD_OS, "cannot load image");
-
+/*pxwdebug  error message is "cannot load image" */
       goto fail;
     }

-------------------------------
Diff 3.  efi Linux boot fails.

grub2 r=1972

--- grub2a/loader/i386/efi/linux.c    2009-02-04 17:04:22.000000000 +1100
+++ grub2b/loader/i386/efi/linux.c    2009-02-09 18:09:22.000000000 +1100
@@ -419,19 +419,19 @@ grub_linux_boot (void)
   asm volatile ("cli" : : );

   /* Load the IDT and the GDT for the bootstrap.  */
   asm volatile ("lidt %0" : : "m" (idt_desc));
   asm volatile ("lgdt %0" : : "m" (gdt_desc));
-
+/*pxwdebug x86_64 linux boot fails */
 #ifdef __x86_64__

   jumpvector.kernel_entry = (grub_uint64_t) grub_linux_real_boot;
   jumpvector.kernel_cs = 0x10;

   asm volatile ( "mov %0, %%rbx" : : "m" (params->code32_start));
   asm volatile ( "mov %0, %%rsi" : : "m" (real_mode_mem));
-
+/*pxwdebug boot fails after ljmp */
   asm volatile ( "ljmp *%0" : : "m" (jumpvector));

 #else

   /* Pass parameters.  */
-------------------------


-- 
Cros

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: grub.efi x86_64 on Apple 64bit efi models - status of testing
  2009-02-09 12:24 grub.efi x86_64 on Apple 64bit efi models - status of testing Peter Cros
@ 2009-02-09 12:38 ` step21
  2009-02-09 14:12   ` Robert Millan
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: step21 @ 2009-02-09 12:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: The development of GRUB 2

> -------------------------------
>
> Three specific issues are stopping useful testing -
>
> 1. Mac models from imac8,1 early 2008 are unable to boot grub.efi 64bit when 4GB RAM is fitted.
>   Dropping to 2GB RAM enables grub.efi to boot and display grub.cfg  menu with fully functional command line. This leads to the next problems -
>
> 2. The grub.efi chainloader command fails to load /usr/standalone/i386/boot.efi, reporting ' error: cannot load image '
>
> 3. grub.efi successfully loads ubuntu x86 2.6.7-7 kernel ( or earlier debian 2.6.26 ) using command line or menuentry, but the boot fails.
>
> After boot command, the boot screen goes to black and no further progress seen,
> except in one case some garbled video indicating possible boot but failure to init.

As I pointed out on the forums, the farthest I got with one kernel was
for it to show either a shell (with init=/bin/sh) or the debian lenny
install screen. All PCI and usb devices seemed to not work at all
though, so doesn't

> 4. Finally, there was a problem getting ubuntu 810 amd64 to complete initialization after booting in earlier 32 bit grub.efi tests, and other issues with accelerated graphics and keyboard. - Not yet the issue here.

The accelerated graphics from what I understand are a general issue
with EFI booting, not much grub can do about it for now. If I
understand it correctly, either grub would have to play a bigger part
in video initilization, or more likely, the accelerated graphics
drivers would have to be rewritten, not very likely I think.

Keyboard and usb in general is already an issue. For example the
keyboard in the air, and probably in all macs is connected through
usb, which so far seems to mean it for example does not work with a
new module calle "at_keyboard" which should support keymaps and other
nice stuff in the future. Before that we had a patch that solved a
loss of keyboard input after about 2 mins, for the normal keyboard
support. I assume the earlier one worked cause it relied more on
callbacks to the EFI subsystem to make the usb.

Maybe this sums it up a bit. Of  course, if any of the devs feel like
I misrepresented some facts, feel free to correct.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: grub.efi x86_64 on Apple 64bit efi models - status of testing
  2009-02-09 12:38 ` step21
@ 2009-02-09 14:12   ` Robert Millan
  2009-02-09 14:26     ` step21
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Robert Millan @ 2009-02-09 14:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: The development of GRUB 2

On Mon, Feb 09, 2009 at 01:38:49PM +0100, step21 wrote:
> Keyboard and usb in general is already an issue. For example the
> keyboard in the air, and probably in all macs is connected through
> usb, which so far seems to mean it for example does not work with a
> new module calle "at_keyboard" which should support keymaps and other
> nice stuff in the future.

Note at_keyboard is for PC/AT keyboards.  But what you said applies to
usb_keyboard too.

-- 
Robert Millan

  The DRM opt-in fallacy: "Your data belongs to us. We will decide when (and
  how) you may access your data; but nobody's threatening your freedom: we
  still allow you to remove your data and not access it at all."



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: grub.efi x86_64 on Apple 64bit efi models - status of testing
  2009-02-09 14:12   ` Robert Millan
@ 2009-02-09 14:26     ` step21
  2009-02-09 14:43       ` Robert Millan
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: step21 @ 2009-02-09 14:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: The development of GRUB 2

Mmm, I was under the impression I should test at_keyboard. However now
this doesn't seem to make much sense. So usb_keyboard is not loaded
automatically or is it?

On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 3:12 PM, Robert Millan <rmh@aybabtu.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 09, 2009 at 01:38:49PM +0100, step21 wrote:
>> Keyboard and usb in general is already an issue. For example the
>> keyboard in the air, and probably in all macs is connected through
>> usb, which so far seems to mean it for example does not work with a
>> new module calle "at_keyboard" which should support keymaps and other
>> nice stuff in the future.
>
> Note at_keyboard is for PC/AT keyboards.  But what you said applies to
> usb_keyboard too.
>
> --
> Robert Millan
>
>  The DRM opt-in fallacy: "Your data belongs to us. We will decide when (and
>  how) you may access your data; but nobody's threatening your freedom: we
>  still allow you to remove your data and not access it at all."
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Grub-devel mailing list
> Grub-devel@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel
>



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: grub.efi x86_64 on Apple 64bit efi models - status of testing
  2009-02-09 14:26     ` step21
@ 2009-02-09 14:43       ` Robert Millan
  2009-02-09 14:56         ` Michal Suchanek
  2009-02-09 15:26         ` step21
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Robert Millan @ 2009-02-09 14:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: The development of GRUB 2

On Mon, Feb 09, 2009 at 03:26:25PM +0100, step21 wrote:
> Mmm, I was under the impression I should test at_keyboard.

That'd be because I told you to test at_keyboard ;-)

But I was wrong, as Vesa pointed out the keyboard on Mac hardware is wired
to the USB controller.

> So usb_keyboard is not loaded
> automatically or is it?

No.  First we need it to be complete / stable and add support for EHCI
(btw, anyone feels like writing an EHCI driver?).

-- 
Robert Millan

  The DRM opt-in fallacy: "Your data belongs to us. We will decide when (and
  how) you may access your data; but nobody's threatening your freedom: we
  still allow you to remove your data and not access it at all."



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: grub.efi x86_64 on Apple 64bit efi models - status of testing
  2009-02-09 14:43       ` Robert Millan
@ 2009-02-09 14:56         ` Michal Suchanek
  2009-02-09 17:07           ` Robert Millan
  2009-02-09 15:26         ` step21
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Michal Suchanek @ 2009-02-09 14:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: The development of GRUB 2

2009/2/9 Robert Millan <rmh@aybabtu.com>:
> On Mon, Feb 09, 2009 at 03:26:25PM +0100, step21 wrote:
>> Mmm, I was under the impression I should test at_keyboard.
>
> That'd be because I told you to test at_keyboard ;-)
>
> But I was wrong, as Vesa pointed out the keyboard on Mac hardware is wired
> to the USB controller.
>
>> So usb_keyboard is not loaded
>> automatically or is it?
>
> No.  First we need it to be complete / stable and add support for EHCI
> (btw, anyone feels like writing an EHCI driver?).
>

Is EHCi driver needed for keyboard support?

I was under the impression that keyboards always appear connected to
the low-full speed root hub, not the hihg-speed one.

Thanks

Michal



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: grub.efi x86_64 on Apple 64bit efi models - status of testing
  2009-02-09 14:43       ` Robert Millan
  2009-02-09 14:56         ` Michal Suchanek
@ 2009-02-09 15:26         ` step21
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: step21 @ 2009-02-09 15:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: The development of GRUB 2

O.k. I now found the semi-colon on the keyboard (it was indeed the ö key)
However now it seems no uhci modules was built. I updated to svn rev
1985 from trunk, what I could see from the list and the web svn view I
thought the usb patch was merged there already? Or do I have to pass a
flag or something so it gets built?


On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 3:43 PM, Robert Millan <rmh@aybabtu.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 09, 2009 at 03:26:25PM +0100, step21 wrote:
>> Mmm, I was under the impression I should test at_keyboard.
>
> That'd be because I told you to test at_keyboard ;-)
>
> But I was wrong, as Vesa pointed out the keyboard on Mac hardware is wired
> to the USB controller.
>
>> So usb_keyboard is not loaded
>> automatically or is it?
>
> No.  First we need it to be complete / stable and add support for EHCI
> (btw, anyone feels like writing an EHCI driver?).
>
> --
> Robert Millan
>
>  The DRM opt-in fallacy: "Your data belongs to us. We will decide when (and
>  how) you may access your data; but nobody's threatening your freedom: we
>  still allow you to remove your data and not access it at all."
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Grub-devel mailing list
> Grub-devel@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel
>



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: grub.efi x86_64 on Apple 64bit efi models - status of testing
  2009-02-09 14:56         ` Michal Suchanek
@ 2009-02-09 17:07           ` Robert Millan
  2009-02-09 23:33             ` Michael Scherer
  2009-02-10  1:55             ` step21
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Robert Millan @ 2009-02-09 17:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: The development of GRUB 2

On Mon, Feb 09, 2009 at 03:56:42PM +0100, Michal Suchanek wrote:
> >> So usb_keyboard is not loaded
> >> automatically or is it?
> >
> > No.  First we need it to be complete / stable and add support for EHCI
> > (btw, anyone feels like writing an EHCI driver?).
> 
> Is EHCi driver needed for keyboard support?
> 
> I was under the impression that keyboards always appear connected to
> the low-full speed root hub, not the hihg-speed one.

This would change things.  Can someone confirm?

-- 
Robert Millan

  The DRM opt-in fallacy: "Your data belongs to us. We will decide when (and
  how) you may access your data; but nobody's threatening your freedom: we
  still allow you to remove your data and not access it at all."



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: grub.efi x86_64 on Apple 64bit efi models - status of testing
  2009-02-09 17:07           ` Robert Millan
@ 2009-02-09 23:33             ` Michael Scherer
  2009-02-10  1:55             ` step21
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Michael Scherer @ 2009-02-09 23:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: The development of GRUB 2


Le 9 févr. 09 à 18:07, Robert Millan a écrit :

> On Mon, Feb 09, 2009 at 03:56:42PM +0100, Michal Suchanek wrote:
>>>> So usb_keyboard is not loaded
>>>> automatically or is it?
>>>
>>> No.  First we need it to be complete / stable and add support for  
>>> EHCI
>>> (btw, anyone feels like writing an EHCI driver?).
>>
>> Is EHCi driver needed for keyboard support?
>>
>> I was under the impression that keyboards always appear connected to
>> the low-full speed root hub, not the hihg-speed one.
>
> This would change things.  Can someone confirm?


Using system-profiler, it show me that the webcam is connected on a  
High speed usb bus, and not the
keyboard :

USB Bus:

       Host Controller Location: Built In USB
       Host Controller Driver: AppleUSBUHCI
       PCI Device ID: 0x27c8
       PCI Revision ID: 0x0002
       PCI Vendor ID: 0x8086
       Bus Number: 0x1d

         Apple Internal Keyboard / Trackpad:

           Product ID: 0x021b
           Vendor ID: 0x05ac  (Apple Inc.)
           Version: 0.18
           Speed: Up to 12 Mb/sec
           Manufacturer: Apple Computer
           Location ID: 0x1d200000
           Current Available (mA): 500
           Current Required (mA): 40


this make sense, as a high speed bus is not really needed for a  
keyboard, I guess.

-- 
Michael Scherer






^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: grub.efi x86_64 on Apple 64bit efi models - status of testing
  2009-02-09 17:07           ` Robert Millan
  2009-02-09 23:33             ` Michael Scherer
@ 2009-02-10  1:55             ` step21
  2009-02-11 18:10               ` step21
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: step21 @ 2009-02-10  1:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: The development of GRUB 2

Tonight did some debugging on loading uhci / usb_keyboard.
For starters: it is confirmed that it is uhci where everything fails
so far as "insmod uhci; echo 1; insmod usb_keyboard; echo 2;
terminal_input usb_keyboard; echo 3" (as suggested by nyu on irc I
think) did not produce a single echo output.
I inserted some debug statements which so far led me to bus/usb/usbhub.c

Output.
bus/usb/uhci.c:661: at uhci init
bus/usb/uhci.c:663: at inithw
bus/usb/usb.c:36:device=uhci
bus/usb/usbhub.c:152:ports=2
bus/usb/usbhub.c:156:determined speed
bus/usb/usbhub.c:160:assigned device

These debug statements were all added by me iirc.
To see what I added: http://paste.debian.net/28056/ (usbhub.c)
http://paste.debian.net/28058/ (usb.c)
btw, did anyone notice that in usbhub.c it says "usb.c" in the header?
confused me for a moment.

As far as I can tell so far it fails to enable the port with "err =
controller->dev->portstatus (controller, i, 1);"
Why that fails I have no idea though, but I will try to continue with
it tomorrow.

Best regards, step21

On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 6:07 PM, Robert Millan <rmh@aybabtu.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 09, 2009 at 03:56:42PM +0100, Michal Suchanek wrote:
>> >> So usb_keyboard is not loaded
>> >> automatically or is it?
>> >
>> > No.  First we need it to be complete / stable and add support for EHCI
>> > (btw, anyone feels like writing an EHCI driver?).
>>
>> Is EHCi driver needed for keyboard support?
>>
>> I was under the impression that keyboards always appear connected to
>> the low-full speed root hub, not the hihg-speed one.
>
> This would change things.  Can someone confirm?
>
> --
> Robert Millan
>
>  The DRM opt-in fallacy: "Your data belongs to us. We will decide when (and
>  how) you may access your data; but nobody's threatening your freedom: we
>  still allow you to remove your data and not access it at all."
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Grub-devel mailing list
> Grub-devel@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel
>



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: grub.efi x86_64 on Apple 64bit efi models - status of testing
  2009-02-10  1:55             ` step21
@ 2009-02-11 18:10               ` step21
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: step21 @ 2009-02-11 18:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: The development of GRUB 2

O.k. I tracked it down a bit more, but would like some input. Command executed:
"insmod uhci; echo 1; insmod usb_keyboard; echo 2; terminal_input
usb_keyboard; echo 3"
Basically uhci and usb_keyboard load consistently now, for whatever
reason. (I suspect it was sth about some weird device just taking
forever to respond, although I wasn't able to reproduce this)
I get returned to the prompt, but no input is accepted. I tried to put
some debug statements into console.c and some others I think have to
do with terminal_input but those don't show up, however the last "echo
3" does appear. So I would like some pointers on where it would best
to insert some more debug statements, or maybe if efi/console.c needs
to be adapted to work with usb_keyboard, as I understand that at first
it only was included in the compile for i386 anyway ...



On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 2:55 AM, step21 <flo@terrorpop.de> wrote:
> Tonight did some debugging on loading uhci / usb_keyboard.
> For starters: it is confirmed that it is uhci where everything fails
> so far as "insmod uhci; echo 1; insmod usb_keyboard; echo 2;
> terminal_input usb_keyboard; echo 3" (as suggested by nyu on irc I
> think) did not produce a single echo output.
> I inserted some debug statements which so far led me to bus/usb/usbhub.c
>
> Output.
> bus/usb/uhci.c:661: at uhci init
> bus/usb/uhci.c:663: at inithw
> bus/usb/usb.c:36:device=uhci
> bus/usb/usbhub.c:152:ports=2
> bus/usb/usbhub.c:156:determined speed
> bus/usb/usbhub.c:160:assigned device
>
> These debug statements were all added by me iirc.
> To see what I added: http://paste.debian.net/28056/ (usbhub.c)
> http://paste.debian.net/28058/ (usb.c)
> btw, did anyone notice that in usbhub.c it says "usb.c" in the header?
> confused me for a moment.
>
> As far as I can tell so far it fails to enable the port with "err =
> controller->dev->portstatus (controller, i, 1);"
> Why that fails I have no idea though, but I will try to continue with
> it tomorrow.
>
> Best regards, step21
>
> On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 6:07 PM, Robert Millan <rmh@aybabtu.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, Feb 09, 2009 at 03:56:42PM +0100, Michal Suchanek wrote:
>>> >> So usb_keyboard is not loaded
>>> >> automatically or is it?
>>> >
>>> > No.  First we need it to be complete / stable and add support for EHCI
>>> > (btw, anyone feels like writing an EHCI driver?).
>>>
>>> Is EHCi driver needed for keyboard support?
>>>
>>> I was under the impression that keyboards always appear connected to
>>> the low-full speed root hub, not the hihg-speed one.
>>
>> This would change things.  Can someone confirm?
>>
>> --
>> Robert Millan
>>
>>  The DRM opt-in fallacy: "Your data belongs to us. We will decide when (and
>>  how) you may access your data; but nobody's threatening your freedom: we
>>  still allow you to remove your data and not access it at all."
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Grub-devel mailing list
>> Grub-devel@gnu.org
>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel
>>
>



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2009-02-11 18:11 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 11+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2009-02-09 12:24 grub.efi x86_64 on Apple 64bit efi models - status of testing Peter Cros
2009-02-09 12:38 ` step21
2009-02-09 14:12   ` Robert Millan
2009-02-09 14:26     ` step21
2009-02-09 14:43       ` Robert Millan
2009-02-09 14:56         ` Michal Suchanek
2009-02-09 17:07           ` Robert Millan
2009-02-09 23:33             ` Michael Scherer
2009-02-10  1:55             ` step21
2009-02-11 18:10               ` step21
2009-02-09 15:26         ` step21

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