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From: Andrea Arcangeli <aarcange@redhat.com>
To: Jeff Moyer <jmoyer@redhat.com>
Cc: KOSAKI Motohiro <kosaki.motohiro@jp.fujitsu.com>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@osdl.org>, Andrew Morton <akpm@osdl.org>,
	Nick Piggin <nickpiggin@yahoo.com.au>,
	linux-mm@kvack.org, linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org,
	Hugh Dickins <hugh@veritas.com>,
	Zach Brown <zach.brown@oracle.com>,
	Andy Grover <andy.grover@oracle.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC][PATCH v3 2/6] mm, directio: fix fork vs direct-io race (read(2) side IOW gup(write) side)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 19:51:24 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20090414175124.GC9809@random.random> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <x49ab6jyyiy.fsf@segfault.boston.devel.redhat.com>

On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 12:45:41PM -0400, Jeff Moyer wrote:
> So, if you're continuously submitting async read I/O, you will starve
> out the fork() call indefinitely.  I agree that you want to allow

IIRC rwsem good enough to stop the down_read when a down_write is
blocked. Otherwise page fault flood in threads would also starve any
mmap or similar call. Still with this approach fork will start to hang
indefinitely waiting for I/O, making it an I/O bound call, and not a
CPU call anymore, which may severely impact interactive-ness of
applications.

As long as fork is useful in the first place to provide memory
protection of different code with different
memory-corruption-trust-levels (otherwise nobody should use fork at
all, and vfork [or better spawn] should become the only option), then
fork from a thread pool is also reasonable. Either fork is totally
useless as a whole (which I wouldn't argue too much about), or if you
agree fork makes any sense, it can also make sense if intermixed with
clone(CLONE_VM) and hopefully it should behave CPU bound like CLONE_VM.

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Andrea Arcangeli <aarcange@redhat.com>
To: Jeff Moyer <jmoyer@redhat.com>
Cc: KOSAKI Motohiro <kosaki.motohiro@jp.fujitsu.com>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@osdl.org>, Andrew Morton <akpm@osdl.org>,
	Nick Piggin <nickpiggin@yahoo.com.au>,
	linux-mm@kvack.org, linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org,
	Hugh Dickins <hugh@veritas.com>,
	Zach Brown <zach.brown@oracle.com>,
	Andy Grover <andy.grover@oracle.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC][PATCH v3 2/6] mm, directio: fix fork vs direct-io race (read(2) side IOW gup(write) side)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 19:51:24 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20090414175124.GC9809@random.random> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <x49ab6jyyiy.fsf@segfault.boston.devel.redhat.com>

On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 12:45:41PM -0400, Jeff Moyer wrote:
> So, if you're continuously submitting async read I/O, you will starve
> out the fork() call indefinitely.  I agree that you want to allow

IIRC rwsem good enough to stop the down_read when a down_write is
blocked. Otherwise page fault flood in threads would also starve any
mmap or similar call. Still with this approach fork will start to hang
indefinitely waiting for I/O, making it an I/O bound call, and not a
CPU call anymore, which may severely impact interactive-ness of
applications.

As long as fork is useful in the first place to provide memory
protection of different code with different
memory-corruption-trust-levels (otherwise nobody should use fork at
all, and vfork [or better spawn] should become the only option), then
fork from a thread pool is also reasonable. Either fork is totally
useless as a whole (which I wouldn't argue too much about), or if you
agree fork makes any sense, it can also make sense if intermixed with
clone(CLONE_VM) and hopefully it should behave CPU bound like CLONE_VM.

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  reply	other threads:[~2009-04-14 17:54 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 93+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2009-04-14  6:15 [RFC][PATCH 0/6] IO pinning(get_user_pages()) vs fork race fix KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-14  6:15 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-14  6:16 ` [RFC][PATCH v3 1/6] mm: Don't unmap gup()ed page KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-14  6:16   ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-14  9:25   ` Nick Piggin
2009-04-14  9:25     ` Nick Piggin
2009-04-14 12:02     ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-14 12:02       ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-14 12:25       ` Nick Piggin
2009-04-14 12:25         ` Nick Piggin
2009-04-14 13:39         ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-14 13:39           ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-14 13:39           ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-14 14:12           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2009-04-14 14:12             ` Andrea Arcangeli
2009-04-14 14:26             ` Nick Piggin
2009-04-14 14:26               ` Nick Piggin
2009-04-14 14:32               ` Andrea Arcangeli
2009-04-14 14:32                 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2009-04-14 14:42                 ` Nick Piggin
2009-04-14 14:42                   ` Nick Piggin
2009-04-14 15:21                   ` Andrea Arcangeli
2009-04-14 15:21                     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2009-04-15  8:05                   ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-15  8:05                     ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-15  8:22                     ` Nick Piggin
2009-04-15  8:22                       ` Nick Piggin
2009-04-15  9:22                       ` Nick Piggin
2009-04-15  9:22                         ` Nick Piggin
2009-04-15 10:46                     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2009-04-15 10:46                       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2009-04-15 11:39                       ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-15 11:39                         ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-15 11:39                         ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-15 11:41                         ` Andrea Arcangeli
2009-04-15 11:41                           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2009-04-15 11:41                           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2009-04-15 11:53                           ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-15 11:53                             ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-19 12:37                             ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-19 12:37                               ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-14 14:38   ` Andrea Arcangeli
2009-04-14 14:38     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2009-04-14  6:18 ` [RFC][PATCH v3 2/6] mm, directio: fix fork vs direct-io race (read(2) side IOW gup(write) side) KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-14  6:18   ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-14  6:25   ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-14  6:25     ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-14 16:45     ` Jeff Moyer
2009-04-14 16:45       ` Jeff Moyer
2009-04-14 17:51       ` Andrea Arcangeli [this message]
2009-04-14 17:51         ` Andrea Arcangeli
2009-04-14 18:10         ` Jeff Moyer
2009-04-14 18:10           ` Jeff Moyer
2009-04-14 19:48           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2009-04-14 19:48             ` Andrea Arcangeli
2009-04-14  6:19 ` [RFC][PATCH v3 3/6] nfs, direct-io: fix fork vs direct-io race on nfs KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-14  6:19   ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-14 16:48   ` Jeff Moyer
2009-04-14 16:48     ` Jeff Moyer
2009-04-14  6:20 ` [RFC][PATCH v3 4/6] aio: Don't inherit aio ring memory at fork KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-14  6:20   ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-14 13:41   ` Andrea Arcangeli
2009-04-14 13:41     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2009-04-14 16:01   ` Jeff Moyer
2009-04-14 16:01     ` Jeff Moyer
2009-04-15  0:56     ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-15  0:56       ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-15  2:44       ` Jeff Moyer
2009-04-15  2:44         ` Jeff Moyer
2009-04-15  3:00         ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-15  3:00           ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-14  6:21 ` [RFC][PATCH v3 5/6] don't use bio-map in read() path KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-14  6:21   ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-14  6:23 ` [RFC][PATCH v3 6/6] fix wrong get_user_pages usage in iovlock.c KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-14  6:23   ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-14  6:56   ` Nick Piggin
2009-04-14  6:56     ` Nick Piggin
2009-04-14  6:58     ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-14  6:58       ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-15  8:48       ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-15  8:48         ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-17 15:07         ` Sosnowski, Maciej
2009-04-17 15:07           ` Sosnowski, Maciej
2009-04-19 12:37           ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-19 12:37             ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-23 12:48             ` Sosnowski, Maciej
2009-04-23 12:48               ` Sosnowski, Maciej
2009-04-14  8:41 ` [RFC][PATCH 0/6] IO pinning(get_user_pages()) vs fork race fix Nick Piggin
2009-04-14  8:41   ` Nick Piggin
2009-04-14  9:19   ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-14  9:19     ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-14  9:37     ` Nick Piggin
2009-04-14  9:37       ` Nick Piggin

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