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From: "Jörn Engel" <joern@logfs.org>
To: Jamie Lokier <jamie@shareable.org>
Cc: Chris Mason <chris.mason@oracle.com>,
	Theodore Tso <tytso@mit.edu>,
	linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, jmorris@namei.org,
	ocfs2-devel@oss.oracle.com, viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk
Subject: [Ocfs2-devel] [PATCH 1/3] fs: Document the reflink(2) system call.
Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 18:46:20 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20090505164619.GA32180@logfs.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20090505153629.GB31100@shareable.org>

On Tue, 5 May 2009 16:36:29 +0100, Jamie Lokier wrote:
> 
> I'm wondering why reflink() is needed at all.  Can't it be done in
> userspace, using the BTRFS ioctl?  The hard part in userspace seems to
> be copying the file attributes, but "cp -a" and other tools manage.
> 
> What is the advantage of adding the system call for the special case
> of reflink(), when we choose not to have, say, a copyfile() system
> call which does what "cp -a" does because doing it in user space is
> good enough?

Given an ignorant filesystem, copyfile() will simply do the read/write
loop in kernelspace.  So either copyfile() is just a fancy name for
splice() or copyfile() will also have to create a tempfile, rename the
tempfile when the copy is done and deal with all possible errors.  And
if the system crashes, who will remove the tempfile on reboot?  Will the
tempfile have a well-known name, allowing for easy DoS?  Or will it be
random, causing much fun locating it after reboot.

In short, copyfile() for ignorant filesystems is steaming load of it.  I
know, I've written it [1].

When implemented in the filesystem itself, copyfile() can be quite nice.
The filesystem can create a temporary inode without visibly exposing it
to userspace.  It can delete temporary inodes in journal replay after a
crash.  And depending on the fs design, the read/write loop can be
replaced with finer-grained reference counting.

[1] Not a year or two ago, but in 2004, btw.

J?rn

-- 
Do not stop an army on its way home.
-- Sun Tzu

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: "Jörn Engel" <joern@logfs.org>
To: Jamie Lokier <jamie@shareable.org>
Cc: Chris Mason <chris.mason@oracle.com>,
	Theodore Tso <tytso@mit.edu>,
	linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, jmorris@namei.org,
	ocfs2-devel@oss.oracle.com, viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk
Subject: Re: [PATCH 1/3] fs: Document the reflink(2) system call.
Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 18:46:20 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20090505164619.GA32180@logfs.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20090505153629.GB31100@shareable.org>

On Tue, 5 May 2009 16:36:29 +0100, Jamie Lokier wrote:
> 
> I'm wondering why reflink() is needed at all.  Can't it be done in
> userspace, using the BTRFS ioctl?  The hard part in userspace seems to
> be copying the file attributes, but "cp -a" and other tools manage.
> 
> What is the advantage of adding the system call for the special case
> of reflink(), when we choose not to have, say, a copyfile() system
> call which does what "cp -a" does because doing it in user space is
> good enough?

Given an ignorant filesystem, copyfile() will simply do the read/write
loop in kernelspace.  So either copyfile() is just a fancy name for
splice() or copyfile() will also have to create a tempfile, rename the
tempfile when the copy is done and deal with all possible errors.  And
if the system crashes, who will remove the tempfile on reboot?  Will the
tempfile have a well-known name, allowing for easy DoS?  Or will it be
random, causing much fun locating it after reboot.

In short, copyfile() for ignorant filesystems is steaming load of it.  I
know, I've written it [1].

When implemented in the filesystem itself, copyfile() can be quite nice.
The filesystem can create a temporary inode without visibly exposing it
to userspace.  It can delete temporary inodes in journal replay after a
crash.  And depending on the fs design, the read/write loop can be
replaced with finer-grained reference counting.

[1] Not a year or two ago, but in 2004, btw.

Jörn

-- 
Do not stop an army on its way home.
-- Sun Tzu
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  parent reply	other threads:[~2009-05-05 16:46 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 304+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2009-05-03  6:15 [Ocfs2-devel] [RFC] The reflink(2) system call Joel Becker
2009-05-03  6:15 ` Joel Becker
2009-05-03  6:15 ` [Ocfs2-devel] [PATCH 1/3] fs: Document the " Joel Becker
2009-05-03  6:15   ` Joel Becker
2009-05-03  8:01   ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Christoph Hellwig
2009-05-03  8:01     ` Christoph Hellwig
2009-05-04  2:46     ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Joel Becker
2009-05-04  2:46       ` Joel Becker
2009-05-04  6:36       ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Michael Kerrisk
2009-05-04  6:36         ` Michael Kerrisk
2009-05-04  7:12         ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Joel Becker
2009-05-04  7:12           ` Joel Becker
2009-05-03 13:08   ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Boaz Harrosh
2009-05-03 13:08     ` Boaz Harrosh
2009-05-03 23:08     ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Al Viro
2009-05-03 23:08       ` Al Viro
2009-05-04  2:49     ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Joel Becker
2009-05-04  2:49       ` Joel Becker
2009-05-03 23:45   ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Theodore Tso
2009-05-03 23:45     ` Theodore Tso
2009-05-04  1:44     ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Tao Ma
2009-05-04  1:44       ` Tao Ma
2009-05-04 18:25       ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Joel Becker
2009-05-04 18:25         ` Joel Becker
2009-05-04 21:18         ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Joel Becker
2009-05-04 21:18           ` Joel Becker
2009-05-04 22:23           ` Theodore Tso
2009-05-04 22:23             ` Theodore Tso
2009-05-05  6:55             ` Joel Becker
2009-05-05  6:55               ` Joel Becker
2009-05-05  1:07   ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05  1:07     ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05  7:16     ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Joel Becker
2009-05-05  7:16       ` Joel Becker
2009-05-05  8:09       ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Andreas Dilger
2009-05-05  8:09         ` Andreas Dilger
2009-05-05 16:56         ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Joel Becker
2009-05-05 16:56           ` Joel Becker
2009-05-05 21:24           ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Andreas Dilger
2009-05-05 21:24             ` Andreas Dilger
2009-05-05 21:32             ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Joel Becker
2009-05-05 21:32               ` Joel Becker
2009-05-06  7:15               ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Theodore Tso
2009-05-06  7:15                 ` Theodore Tso
2009-05-06 14:24                 ` jim owens
2009-05-06 14:24                   ` jim owens
2009-05-06 14:30                   ` jim owens
2009-05-06 14:30                     ` jim owens
2009-05-06 17:50                     ` jim owens
2009-05-06 17:50                       ` jim owens
2009-05-12 19:20                       ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-12 19:20                         ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-12 19:30                       ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-12 19:30                         ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-12 19:11                   ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-12 19:11                     ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-12 19:37                     ` jim owens
2009-05-12 19:37                       ` jim owens
2009-05-12 20:11                       ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-12 20:11                         ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 13:01       ` Theodore Tso
2009-05-05 13:01         ` Theodore Tso
2009-05-05 13:19         ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 13:19           ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 13:39           ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Chris Mason
2009-05-05 13:39             ` Chris Mason
2009-05-05 15:36             ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 15:36               ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 15:41               ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Chris Mason
2009-05-05 15:41                 ` Chris Mason
2009-05-05 16:03                 ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 16:03                   ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 16:18                   ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Chris Mason
2009-05-05 16:18                     ` Chris Mason
2009-05-05 20:48                   ` [Ocfs2-devel] " jim owens
2009-05-05 20:48                     ` jim owens
2009-05-05 21:57                     ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 21:57                       ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 22:04                       ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Joel Becker
2009-05-05 22:04                         ` Joel Becker
2009-05-05 22:11                         ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 22:11                           ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 22:24                           ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Joel Becker
2009-05-05 22:24                             ` Joel Becker
2009-05-05 23:14                             ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 23:14                               ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 22:12                         ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 22:12                           ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 22:21                           ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Joel Becker
2009-05-05 22:21                             ` Joel Becker
2009-05-05 22:32                             ` [Ocfs2-devel] " James Morris
2009-05-05 22:32                               ` James Morris
2009-05-05 22:39                               ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Joel Becker
2009-05-05 22:39                                 ` Joel Becker
2009-05-12 19:40                               ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Jamie Lokier
2009-05-12 19:40                                 ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 22:28                         ` [Ocfs2-devel] " jim owens
2009-05-05 22:28                           ` jim owens
2009-05-05 23:12                           ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 23:12                             ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 16:46               ` Jörn Engel [this message]
2009-05-05 16:46                 ` Jörn Engel
2009-05-05 16:54                 ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Jörn Engel
2009-05-05 16:54                   ` Jörn Engel
2009-05-05 22:03                   ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 22:03                     ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 21:44                 ` [Ocfs2-devel] copyfile semantics Andreas Dilger
2009-05-05 21:44                   ` Andreas Dilger
2009-05-05 21:48                   ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Matthew Wilcox
2009-05-05 21:48                     ` Matthew Wilcox
2009-05-05 22:25                     ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Trond Myklebust
2009-05-05 22:25                       ` Trond Myklebust
2009-05-05 22:06                   ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 22:06                     ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-06  5:57                   ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Jörn Engel
2009-05-06  5:57                     ` Jörn Engel
2009-05-05 14:21           ` [Ocfs2-devel] [PATCH 1/3] fs: Document the reflink(2) system call Theodore Tso
2009-05-05 14:21             ` Theodore Tso
2009-05-05 15:32             ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 15:32               ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 22:49             ` [Ocfs2-devel] " James Morris
2009-05-05 22:49               ` James Morris
2009-05-05 17:05           ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Joel Becker
2009-05-05 17:05             ` Joel Becker
2009-05-05 17:00         ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Joel Becker
2009-05-05 17:00           ` Joel Becker
2009-05-05 17:29           ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Theodore Tso
2009-05-05 17:29             ` Theodore Tso
2009-05-05 22:36             ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 22:36               ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 22:30           ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 22:30             ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 22:37             ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Joel Becker
2009-05-05 22:37               ` Joel Becker
2009-05-05 23:08             ` [Ocfs2-devel] " jim owens
2009-05-05 23:08               ` jim owens
2009-05-05 13:01       ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 13:01         ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 17:09         ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Joel Becker
2009-05-05 17:09           ` Joel Becker
2009-05-03  6:15 ` [Ocfs2-devel] [PATCH 2/3] fs: Add vfs_reflink() and the ->reflink() inode operation Joel Becker
2009-05-03  6:15   ` Joel Becker
2009-05-03  8:03   ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Christoph Hellwig
2009-05-03  8:03     ` Christoph Hellwig
2009-05-04  2:51     ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Joel Becker
2009-05-04  2:51       ` Joel Becker
2009-05-03  6:15 ` [Ocfs2-devel] [PATCH 3/3] fs: Add the reflink(2) system call Joel Becker
2009-05-03  6:15   ` Joel Becker
2009-05-03  6:27   ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Matthew Wilcox
2009-05-03  6:27     ` Matthew Wilcox
2009-05-03  6:39     ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Al Viro
2009-05-03  6:39       ` Al Viro
2009-05-03  7:48       ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Christoph Hellwig
2009-05-03  7:48         ` Christoph Hellwig
2009-05-03 11:16         ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Al Viro
2009-05-03 11:16           ` Al Viro
2009-05-04  2:53       ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Joel Becker
2009-05-04  2:53         ` Joel Becker
2009-05-04  2:53     ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Joel Becker
2009-05-04  2:53       ` Joel Becker
2009-05-03  8:04   ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Christoph Hellwig
2009-05-03  8:04     ` Christoph Hellwig
2009-05-07 22:15 ` [Ocfs2-devel] [RFC] The reflink(2) system call v2 Joel Becker
2009-05-07 22:15   ` Joel Becker
2009-05-08  1:39   ` [Ocfs2-devel] " James Morris
2009-05-08  1:39     ` James Morris
2009-05-08  1:49     ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Joel Becker
2009-05-08  1:49       ` Joel Becker
2009-05-08 13:01       ` Tetsuo Handa
2009-05-08  2:59   ` [Ocfs2-devel] " jim owens
2009-05-08  2:59     ` jim owens
2009-05-08  3:10     ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Joel Becker
2009-05-08  3:10       ` Joel Becker
2009-05-08 11:53       ` [Ocfs2-devel] " jim owens
2009-05-08 11:53         ` jim owens
2009-05-08 12:16       ` [Ocfs2-devel] " jim owens
2009-05-08 12:16         ` jim owens
2009-05-08 14:11         ` [Ocfs2-devel] " jim owens
2009-05-08 14:11           ` jim owens
2009-05-11 20:40       ` [Ocfs2-devel] [RFC] The reflink(2) system call v4 Joel Becker
2009-05-11 20:40         ` Joel Becker
2009-05-11 22:27         ` [Ocfs2-devel] " James Morris
2009-05-11 22:27           ` James Morris
2009-05-11 22:34           ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Joel Becker
2009-05-11 22:34             ` Joel Becker
2009-05-12  1:12             ` [Ocfs2-devel] " James Morris
2009-05-12  1:12               ` James Morris
2009-05-12 12:18               ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Stephen Smalley
2009-05-12 12:18                 ` Stephen Smalley
2009-05-12 17:22                 ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Joel Becker
2009-05-12 17:22                   ` Joel Becker
2009-05-12 17:32                   ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Stephen Smalley
2009-05-12 17:32                     ` Stephen Smalley
2009-05-12 18:03                     ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Joel Becker
2009-05-12 18:03                       ` Joel Becker
2009-05-12 18:04                       ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Stephen Smalley
2009-05-12 18:04                         ` Stephen Smalley
2009-05-12 18:28                         ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Joel Becker
2009-05-12 18:28                           ` Joel Becker
2009-05-12 18:37                           ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Stephen Smalley
2009-05-12 18:37                             ` Stephen Smalley
2009-05-14 18:06                         ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Stephen Smalley
2009-05-14 18:06                           ` Stephen Smalley
2009-05-14 18:25                           ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Stephen Smalley
2009-05-14 18:25                             ` Stephen Smalley
2009-05-14 23:25                             ` [Ocfs2-devel] " James Morris
2009-05-14 23:25                               ` James Morris
2009-05-15 11:54                               ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Stephen Smalley
2009-05-15 11:54                                 ` Stephen Smalley
2009-05-15 13:35                                 ` [Ocfs2-devel] " James Morris
2009-05-15 13:35                                   ` James Morris
2009-05-15 15:44                                   ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Stephen Smalley
2009-05-15 15:44                                     ` Stephen Smalley
2009-05-13  1:47                       ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Casey Schaufler
2009-05-13  1:47                         ` Casey Schaufler
2009-05-13 16:43                         ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Joel Becker
2009-05-13 16:43                           ` Joel Becker
2009-05-13 17:23                           ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Stephen Smalley
2009-05-13 17:23                             ` Stephen Smalley
2009-05-13 18:27                             ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Joel Becker
2009-05-13 18:27                               ` Joel Becker
2009-05-12 12:01           ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Stephen Smalley
2009-05-12 12:01             ` Stephen Smalley
2009-05-11 23:11         ` [Ocfs2-devel] " jim owens
2009-05-11 23:11           ` jim owens
2009-05-11 23:42           ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Joel Becker
2009-05-11 23:42             ` Joel Becker
2009-05-12 11:31         ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Jörn Engel
2009-05-12 11:31           ` Jörn Engel
2009-05-12 13:12           ` [Ocfs2-devel] " jim owens
2009-05-12 13:12             ` jim owens
2009-05-12 20:24             ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Jamie Lokier
2009-05-12 20:24               ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-14 18:43             ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Jörn Engel
2009-05-14 18:43               ` Jörn Engel
2009-05-12 15:04         ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Sage Weil
2009-05-12 15:04           ` Sage Weil
2009-05-12 15:23           ` [Ocfs2-devel] " jim owens
2009-05-12 15:23             ` jim owens
2009-05-12 16:16             ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Sage Weil
2009-05-12 16:16               ` Sage Weil
2009-05-12 17:45               ` [Ocfs2-devel] " jim owens
2009-05-12 17:45                 ` jim owens
2009-05-12 20:29                 ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Jamie Lokier
2009-05-12 20:29                   ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-12 17:28           ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Joel Becker
2009-05-12 17:28             ` Joel Becker
2009-05-13  4:30             ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Sage Weil
2009-05-13  4:30               ` Sage Weil
2009-05-14  3:57         ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Andy Lutomirski
2009-05-14  3:57           ` Andy Lutomirski
2009-05-14 18:12           ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Stephen Smalley
2009-05-14 18:12             ` Stephen Smalley
2009-05-14 22:00             ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Joel Becker
2009-05-14 22:00               ` Joel Becker
2009-05-15  1:20               ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Jamie Lokier
2009-05-15  1:20               ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-15 12:01               ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Stephen Smalley
2009-05-15 12:01                 ` Stephen Smalley
2009-05-15 15:22                 ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Joel Becker
2009-05-15 15:22                   ` Joel Becker
2009-05-15 15:55                   ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Stephen Smalley
2009-05-15 15:55                     ` Stephen Smalley
2009-05-15 16:42                     ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Joel Becker
2009-05-15 16:42                       ` Joel Becker
2009-05-15 17:01                       ` Shaya Potter
2009-05-15 17:01                       ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Shaya Potter
2009-05-15 20:53                       ` Joel Becker
2009-05-15 20:53                         ` Joel Becker
2009-05-18  9:17                         ` Jörn Engel
2009-05-18  9:17                           ` Jörn Engel
2009-05-18 13:02                         ` Stephen Smalley
2009-05-18 13:02                           ` Stephen Smalley
2009-05-18 14:33                           ` Stephen Smalley
2009-05-18 14:33                             ` Stephen Smalley
2009-05-18 17:15                             ` Stephen Smalley
2009-05-18 17:15                               ` Stephen Smalley
2009-05-18 18:26                           ` Joel Becker
2009-05-18 18:26                             ` Joel Becker
2009-05-19 16:32                             ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Sage Weil
2009-05-19 16:32                               ` Sage Weil
2009-05-19 19:20                         ` Jonathan Corbet
2009-05-19 19:32                           ` Joel Becker
2009-05-19 19:41                             ` Jonathan Corbet
2009-05-19 19:41                               ` Jonathan Corbet
2009-05-19 19:33                         ` Jonathan Corbet
2009-05-19 20:15                           ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-25  7:44         ` [Ocfs2-devel] [RFC] The reflink(2) system call v4. - Question for suitability Mihail Daskalov
2009-05-25 20:42           ` Joel Becker
2009-05-28  0:24         ` [Ocfs2-devel] [RFC] The reflink(2) system call v5 Joel Becker
2009-05-28  0:24         ` Joel Becker
2009-09-14 22:24         ` Joel Becker
2009-09-14 22:24         ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Joel Becker
2009-09-14 22:24           ` Joel Becker
2009-05-11 20:49     ` [Ocfs2-devel] [RFC] The reflink(2) system call v2 Joel Becker
2009-05-11 20:49       ` Joel Becker
2009-05-11 22:49       ` [Ocfs2-devel] " jim owens
2009-05-11 22:49         ` jim owens
2009-05-11 23:46         ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Joel Becker
2009-05-11 23:46           ` Joel Becker
2009-05-12  0:54           ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Chris Mason
2009-05-12  0:54             ` Chris Mason
2009-05-12 20:36           ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Jamie Lokier
2009-05-12 20:36             ` Jamie Lokier

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