[ath9k-devel] Do 11n rates available in ad-hoc mode

[ath9k-devel] Do 11n rates available in ad-hoc mode

[Rakesh Kumar]

>Tianji Li wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I recently got an ad-hoc link working between two PCs. The initial rates
>> when the link was on, were something like 54/48 Mbps, soon became 24 Mbps,
>> then after a while 1Mbps and never increased. This seemed that rate
>> adaptation is working and the channel is noisy. However, I never saw any
>> rates > 54 Mbps. Are the 11n rates available in ad-hoc mode? Thx a lot.

Sujit Wrote:

>Nope, 11n hasn't been implemented for Ad-Hoc.

Has it been done now? I recently downloaded compat-wireless stable version from:

http://wireless.kernel.org/en/users/Download/stable/

And installed it on a 2.6.27 kernel (Ubuntu 8.10). Here is lspci
output of my card:

03:02.0 Network controller: Atheros Communications Inc. AR5008
Wireless Network Adapter (rev 01)
	Subsystem: D-Link System Inc Device 3a6d
	Flags: bus master, 66MHz, medium devsel, latency 168, IRQ 18
	Memory at fe7f0000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=64K]
	Capabilities: <access denied>
	Kernel driver in use: ath9k
	Kernel modules: ath9k

And here is what iw tells me about the rate being used:

rakesh at pineapple:~/Desktop/iw-0.9.14$ sudo ./iw dev wlan0 station dump
Station 00:21:91:fb:91:3d (on wlan0)
	inactive time:	100 ms
	rx bytes:	7947225
	rx packets:	122265
	tx bytes:	0
	tx packets:	0
	signal:  	-48 dBm
	tx bitrate:	1.0 MBit/s

I am using this another machine using the same card, same kernel and
same driver.


--
Rakesh

[ath9k-devel] Do 11n rates available in ad-hoc mode

[Luis R. Rodriguez]

On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 09:39:15PM -0700, Rakesh Kumar wrote:
> >Tianji Li wrote:
> >> Hi All,
> >>
> >> I recently got an ad-hoc link working between two PCs. The initial rates
> >> when the link was on, were something like 54/48 Mbps, soon became 24 Mbps,
> >> then after a while 1Mbps and never increased. This seemed that rate
> >> adaptation is working and the channel is noisy. However, I never saw any
> >> rates > 54 Mbps. Are the 11n rates available in ad-hoc mode? Thx a lot.
> 
> Sujit Wrote:
> 
> >Nope, 11n hasn't been implemented for Ad-Hoc.
> 
> Has it been done now? I recently downloaded compat-wireless stable version from:
> 
> http://wireless.kernel.org/en/users/Download/stable/
> 
> And installed it on a 2.6.27 kernel (Ubuntu 8.10). Here is lspci
> output of my card:
> 
> 03:02.0 Network controller: Atheros Communications Inc. AR5008
> Wireless Network Adapter (rev 01)
>         Subsystem: D-Link System Inc Device 3a6d
>         Flags: bus master, 66MHz, medium devsel, latency 168, IRQ 18
>         Memory at fe7f0000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=64K]
>         Capabilities: <access denied>
>         Kernel driver in use: ath9k
>         Kernel modules: ath9k
> 
> And here is what iw tells me about the rate being used:
> 
> rakesh at pineapple:~/Desktop/iw-0.9.14$ sudo ./iw dev wlan0 station dump
> Station 00:21:91:fb:91:3d (on wlan0)
>         inactive time:  100 ms
>         rx bytes:       7947225
>         rx packets:     122265
>         tx bytes:       0
>         tx packets:     0
>         signal:         -48 dBm
>         tx bitrate:     1.0 MBit/s
> 
> I am using this another machine using the same card, same kernel and
> same driver.

No, its not something in the IEEE standard so such support won't likely
get merged into mac80211. You might be able to use MCS rates in ad-hoc
mode but if that's possible its just becuase we haven't fixed the code
paths to not allow for it.

  Luis

[ath9k-devel] Do 11n rates available in ad-hoc mode

[Rakesh Kumar]

> No, its not something in the IEEE standard so such support won't likely
> get merged into mac80211. You might be able to use MCS rates in ad-hoc
> mode but if that's possible its just becuase we haven't fixed the code
> paths to not allow for it.
>
> ?Luis
>

Are you referring to Ad-hoc mode when saying it's not in IEEE standard
or support for using rate adaptation for it? If that is the case, you
elaborate on as to why this is the case or point me somewhere to read
about it?


Thanks.


--
Rakesh

[ath9k-devel] Do 11n rates available in ad-hoc mode

[Luis R. Rodriguez]

On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 03:17:12PM -0700, Rakesh Kumar wrote:
> > No, its not something in the IEEE standard so such support won't likely
> > get merged into mac80211. You might be able to use MCS rates in ad-hoc
> > mode but if that's possible its just becuase we haven't fixed the code
> > paths to not allow for it.
> >
> >  Luis
> >
> 
> Are you referring to Ad-hoc mode when saying it's not in IEEE standard
> or support for using rate adaptation for it?

Yes.

> If that is the case, you
> elaborate on as to why this is the case

I am not sure.

> or point me somewhere to read
> about it?

Unfortunately I have nothing. The 11n draft is only available to
members so if you don't have that with you there aren't really any
other good places to read about it. When I get a chance I tend to try
to add to this wiki:

http://wireless.kernel.org/en/developers/Documentation/ieee80211/802.11n

But its more a quick summary for developers.

  Luis

[ath9k-devel] Do 11n rates available in ad-hoc mode

[Tianji Li]

Luis R. Rodriguez wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 03:17:12PM -0700, Rakesh Kumar wrote:
>   
>>> No, its not something in the IEEE standard so such support won't likely
>>> get merged into mac80211. You might be able to use MCS rates in ad-hoc
>>> mode but if that's possible its just becuase we haven't fixed the code
>>> paths to not allow for it.
>>>
>>>  Luis
>>>
>>>       
>> Are you referring to Ad-hoc mode when saying it's not in IEEE standard
>> or support for using rate adaptation for it?
>>     
>
> Yes.
>
>   
>> If that is the case, you
>> elaborate on as to why this is the case
>>     
>
> I am not sure.
>
>   
>> or point me somewhere to read
>> about it?
>>     
>
> Unfortunately I have nothing. The 11n draft is only available to
> members so if you don't have that with you there aren't really any
> other good places to read about it. When I get a chance I tend to try
> to add to this wiki:
>
> http://wireless.kernel.org/en/developers/Documentation/ieee80211/802.11n
>
> But its more a quick summary for developers.
>
>   Luis
> _______________________________________________
> ath9k-devel mailing list
> ath9k-devel at lists.ath9k.org
> https://lists.ath9k.org/mailman/listinfo/ath9k-devel
>   
Hi there,

I have a copy of the 802.11n draft version 3.0 dated Sep. 2007, in 
Section 5.2.9 High Throughput (HT) STA on Page 33,  I saw a sentence 
like this 'The HT features are available to HT STAs associated with an 
HT AP in a BSS. *A subset* of the HT features is available for use 
between two HT STAs that are members of the same IBSS.'

I think this means that at that time (around two years ago), people 
*might be* thinking to support high phy rates in ad hoc mode, which may 
or may not be the case now.

BTW, I bought the draft 3.0 via IEEE explorer some time ago, which costs 
me around 100 dollars.

Tianji

[ath9k-devel] Do 11n rates available in ad-hoc mode

[Luis R. Rodriguez]

On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 01:36:11AM -0700, Tianji Li wrote:
> Luis R. Rodriguez wrote:
> > On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 03:17:12PM -0700, Rakesh Kumar wrote:
> >
> >>> No, its not something in the IEEE standard so such support won't likely
> >>> get merged into mac80211. You might be able to use MCS rates in ad-hoc
> >>> mode but if that's possible its just becuase we haven't fixed the code
> >>> paths to not allow for it.
> >>>
> >>>  Luis
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Are you referring to Ad-hoc mode when saying it's not in IEEE standard
> >> or support for using rate adaptation for it?
> >>
> >
> > Yes.
> >
> >
> >> If that is the case, you
> >> elaborate on as to why this is the case
> >>
> >
> > I am not sure.
> >
> >
> >> or point me somewhere to read
> >> about it?
> >>
> >
> > Unfortunately I have nothing. The 11n draft is only available to
> > members so if you don't have that with you there aren't really any
> > other good places to read about it. When I get a chance I tend to try
> > to add to this wiki:
> >
> > http://wireless.kernel.org/en/developers/Documentation/ieee80211/802.11n
> >
> > But its more a quick summary for developers.
> >
> >   Luis
> > _______________________________________________
> > ath9k-devel mailing list
> > ath9k-devel at lists.ath9k.org
> > https://lists.ath9k.org/mailman/listinfo/ath9k-devel
> >
> Hi there,
> 
> I have a copy of the 802.11n draft version 3.0 dated Sep. 2007, in
> Section 5.2.9 High Throughput (HT) STA on Page 33,  I saw a sentence
> like this 'The HT features are available to HT STAs associated with an
> HT AP in a BSS. *A subset* of the HT features is available for use
> between two HT STAs that are members of the same IBSS.'
> 
> I think this means that at that time (around two years ago), people
> *might be* thinking to support high phy rates in ad hoc mode, which may
> or may not be the case now.

This seems to be accurate, so someone with enough interest just needs to
do the proper review and add the support in mac80211 for this.

  Luis

[ath9k-devel] Do 11n rates available in ad-hoc mode

[austinxxh-ath9k at yahoo.com]

In my experiments with adhoc/mesh/AP mode of ath9k, I can see AP/STA-mode supports all the HT speeds.

when set ath9k to adhoc or mesh mode, the highest speed in rcstat is only 54mbps, which says 11n HT speed does not even exist for ath9k.

Anyone is interested in adding HT to adhoc/mesh mode on ath9k/mac80211...or just me?

Thanks,
X Xiao



--- On Fri, 6/26/09, Tianji Li <Tianji.Li@nuim.ie> wrote:

> From: Tianji Li <Tianji.Li@nuim.ie>
> Subject: Re: [ath9k-devel] Do 11n rates available in ad-hoc mode
> To: 
> Cc: "ath9k-devel at lists.ath9k.org" <ath9k-devel@lists.ath9k.org>
> Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 3:36 AM
> Luis R. Rodriguez wrote:
> > On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 03:17:12PM -0700, Rakesh Kumar
> wrote:
> >???
> >>> No, its not something in the IEEE standard so
> such support won't likely
> >>> get merged into mac80211. You might be able to
> use MCS rates in ad-hoc
> >>> mode but if that's possible its just becuase
> we haven't fixed the code
> >>> paths to not allow for it.
> >>>
> >>>? Luis
> >>>
> >>>? ? ???
> >> Are you referring to Ad-hoc mode when saying it's
> not in IEEE standard
> >> or support for using rate adaptation for it?
> >>? ???
> >
> > Yes.
> >
> >???
> >> If that is the case, you
> >> elaborate on as to why this is the case
> >>? ???
> >
> > I am not sure.
> >
> >???
> >> or point me somewhere to read
> >> about it?
> >>? ???
> >
> > Unfortunately I have nothing. The 11n draft is only
> available to
> > members so if you don't have that with you there
> aren't really any
> > other good places to read about it. When I get a
> chance I tend to try
> > to add to this wiki:
> >
> > http://wireless.kernel.org/en/developers/Documentation/ieee80211/802.11n
> >
> > But its more a quick summary for developers.
> >
> >???Luis
> > _______________________________________________
> > ath9k-devel mailing list
> > ath9k-devel at lists.ath9k.org
> > https://lists.ath9k.org/mailman/listinfo/ath9k-devel
> >???
> Hi there,
> 
> I have a copy of the 802.11n draft version 3.0 dated Sep.
> 2007, in 
> Section 5.2.9 High Throughput (HT) STA on Page 33,? I
> saw a sentence 
> like this 'The HT features are available to HT STAs
> associated with an 
> HT AP in a BSS. *A subset* of the HT features is available
> for use 
> between two HT STAs that are members of the same IBSS.'
> 
> I think this means that at that time (around two years
> ago), people 
> *might be* thinking to support high phy rates in ad hoc
> mode, which may 
> or may not be the case now.
> 
> BTW, I bought the draft 3.0 via IEEE explorer some time
> ago, which costs 
> me around 100 dollars.
> 
> Tianji
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ath9k-devel mailing list
> ath9k-devel at lists.ath9k.org
> https://lists.ath9k.org/mailman/listinfo/ath9k-devel
>

[ath9k-devel] Do 11n rates available in ad-hoc mode

[Peter Tarjan]

n Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 2:10 AM, <austinxxh-ath9k@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Anyone is interested in adding HT to adhoc/mesh mode on ath9k/mac80211...or
> just me?
>

I would be also glad if it worked...

It is not clear to me if in a previous version it was enabled and later
disabled?

Luis R. Rodriguez wrote:
"You can probably use MCS rates with ath9k in both ad-hoc and in mesh mode
but that's just by chance -- in the future we could decide just disable
that."
and later
"You might be able to use MCS rates in ad-hoc mode but if that's possible
its just becuase we haven't fixed the code paths to not
allow for it."

-- 
Peter T.
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[ath9k-devel] Do 11n rates available in ad-hoc mode

[Rakesh Kumar]

On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 7:10 PM, <austinxxh-ath9k@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
> In my experiments with adhoc/mesh/AP mode of ath9k, I can see AP/STA-mode
> supports all the HT speeds.
>
> when set ath9k to adhoc or mesh mode, the highest speed in rcstat is only
> 54mbps, which says 11n HT speed does not even exist for ath9k.
>
> Anyone is interested in adding HT to adhoc/mesh mode on ath9k/mac80211...or
> just me?
>


I observed exactly that and I want to use HT speeds in ad-hoc mode also. So
if you want to work it out together, we can team up on for it. We do need to
be mindful of 802.11n standard's provisions, though.

--
Rakesh
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[ath9k-devel] Do 11n rates available in ad-hoc mode

[xxiao]

Luis,

Can you elaborate a bit further or give some guidance? I would like to first give MCS a try but don't know how to do it.

If adding HT code to mesh/ibss is the only way to go, it will involve both mac80211/ath9k, I began to check ht.c, ibss.c, mlme.c and any advice will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
X Xiao (xxiao)


--- On Thu, 7/2/09, Peter Tarjan <peter.tarjan@birdtelecom.hu> wrote:

> From: Peter Tarjan <peter.tarjan@birdtelecom.hu>
> Subject: Re: [ath9k-devel] Do 11n rates available in ad-hoc mode
> To: "ath9k-devel at lists.ath9k.org" <ath9k-devel@lists.ath9k.org>
> Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, 8:12 AM
> n Thu, Jul 2,
> 2009 at 2:10 AM,  <austinxxh-ath9k@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> 
> 
> Anyone is interested in adding HT to adhoc/mesh mode on
> ath9k/mac80211...or just me?
> 
> 
> I would be also glad if it worked...
> 
> It is not clear to me if in a previous version it was
> enabled and later disabled?
> 
> Luis R. Rodriguez wrote:
> "You can probably use MCS rates with ath9k in both
> ad-hoc and in mesh mode but that's just by chance -- in
> the future we could decide just disable that."
> 
> and later
> "You might be able to use MCS rates in ad-hoc mode but
> if that's possible its just becuase we haven't fixed
> the code paths to not
> 
> allow for it."
> 
> -- 
> Peter T.
> 
> 
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ath9k-devel mailing list
> ath9k-devel at lists.ath9k.org
> https://lists.ath9k.org/mailman/listinfo/ath9k-devel
> 

[ath9k-devel] Do 11n rates available in ad-hoc mode

[xxiao]

Sounds great. I just got hand of the 11n draft 11 and 80211s draft and am still reading them.

At this point I don't know which option is easier to implement:
1. Adding HT to IBSS(ad-hoc), then run batman/olsr on top of it.
2. Adding HT to 80211s directly, and use 11s at the mesh protocol once and for all.

I do prefer option #1, as it seems easier.

xxiao

--- On Fri, 7/10/09, Rakesh Kumar <gopchandani@gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Rakesh Kumar <gopchandani@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [ath9k-devel] Do 11n rates available in ad-hoc mode
> To: austinxxh-ath9k at yahoo.com
> Cc: ath9k-devel at lists.ath9k.org
> Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 4:54 PM
> On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 7:10 PM,  <austinxxh-ath9k@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> In my experiments with adhoc/mesh/AP mode of ath9k, I can
> see AP/STA-mode supports all the HT speeds.
> 
> 
> 
> when set ath9k to adhoc or mesh mode, the highest speed in
> rcstat is only 54mbps, which says 11n HT speed does not even
> exist for ath9k.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone is interested in adding HT to adhoc/mesh mode on
> ath9k/mac80211...or just me?
> 
> 
> 
> I observed exactly that and I want to use HT speeds in
> ad-hoc mode also. So if you want to work it out together, we
> can team up on for it. We do need to be mindful of 802.11n
> standard's provisions, though.
> 
> 
> --
> Rakesh
> 
>