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From: Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>
To: David Rientjes <rientjes@google.com>
Cc: Rik van Riel <riel@redhat.com>,
	KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki <kamezawa.hiroyu@jp.fujitsu.com>,
	Nick Piggin <npiggin@suse.de>,
	Andrea Arcangeli <aarcange@redhat.com>,
	Balbir Singh <balbir@linux.vnet.ibm.com>,
	Lubos Lunak <l.lunak@suse.cz>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org
Subject: Re: [patch 4/7 -mm] oom: badness heuristic rewrite
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:43:43 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20100211134343.4886499c.akpm@linux-foundation.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002102332200.22152@chino.kir.corp.google.com>

On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 01:14:43 -0800 (PST)
David Rientjes <rientjes@google.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 10 Feb 2010, Rik van Riel wrote:
> 
> > > OOM_ADJUST_MIN and OOM_ADJUST_MAX have been exported to userspace since
> > > 2006 via include/linux/oom.h.  This alters their values from -16 to -1000
> > > and from +15 to +1000, respectively.
> > 
> > That seems like a bad idea.  Google may have the luxury of
> > being able to recompile all its in-house applications, but
> > this will not be true for many other users of /proc/<pid>/oom_adj
> > 
> 
> Changing any value that may have a tendency to be hardcoded elsewhere is 
> always controversial, but I think the nature of /proc/pid/oom_adj allows 
> us to do so for two specific reasons:
> 
>  - hardcoded values tend not the fall within a range, they tend to either
>    always prefer a certain task for oom kill first or disable oom killing
>    entirely.  The current implementation uses this as a bitshift on a
>    seemingly unpredictable and unscientific heuristic that is very 
>    difficult to predict at runtime.  This means that fewer and fewer
>    applications would hardcode a value of '8', for example, because its 
>    semantics depends entirely on RAM capacity of the system to begin with
>    since badness() scores are only useful when used in comparison with
>    other tasks.

You'd be amazed what dumb things applications do.  Get thee to
http://google.com/codesearch?hl=en&lr=&q=[^a-z]oom_adj[^a-z]&sbtn=Search
and start reading.  All 641 matches ;)

Here's one which which writes -16:
http://google.com/codesearch/p?hl=en#eN5TNOm7KtI/trunk/wlan/vendor/asus/eeepc/init.rc&q=[^a-z]oom_adj[^a-z]&sa=N&cd=70&ct=rc

Let's not change the ABI please.


WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>
To: David Rientjes <rientjes@google.com>
Cc: Rik van Riel <riel@redhat.com>,
	KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki <kamezawa.hiroyu@jp.fujitsu.com>,
	Nick Piggin <npiggin@suse.de>,
	Andrea Arcangeli <aarcange@redhat.com>,
	Balbir Singh <balbir@linux.vnet.ibm.com>,
	Lubos Lunak <l.lunak@suse.cz>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org
Subject: Re: [patch 4/7 -mm] oom: badness heuristic rewrite
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:43:43 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20100211134343.4886499c.akpm@linux-foundation.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002102332200.22152@chino.kir.corp.google.com>

On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 01:14:43 -0800 (PST)
David Rientjes <rientjes@google.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 10 Feb 2010, Rik van Riel wrote:
> 
> > > OOM_ADJUST_MIN and OOM_ADJUST_MAX have been exported to userspace since
> > > 2006 via include/linux/oom.h.  This alters their values from -16 to -1000
> > > and from +15 to +1000, respectively.
> > 
> > That seems like a bad idea.  Google may have the luxury of
> > being able to recompile all its in-house applications, but
> > this will not be true for many other users of /proc/<pid>/oom_adj
> > 
> 
> Changing any value that may have a tendency to be hardcoded elsewhere is 
> always controversial, but I think the nature of /proc/pid/oom_adj allows 
> us to do so for two specific reasons:
> 
>  - hardcoded values tend not the fall within a range, they tend to either
>    always prefer a certain task for oom kill first or disable oom killing
>    entirely.  The current implementation uses this as a bitshift on a
>    seemingly unpredictable and unscientific heuristic that is very 
>    difficult to predict at runtime.  This means that fewer and fewer
>    applications would hardcode a value of '8', for example, because its 
>    semantics depends entirely on RAM capacity of the system to begin with
>    since badness() scores are only useful when used in comparison with
>    other tasks.

You'd be amazed what dumb things applications do.  Get thee to
http://google.com/codesearch?hl=en&lr=&q=[^a-z]oom_adj[^a-z]&sbtn=Search
and start reading.  All 641 matches ;)

Here's one which which writes -16:
http://google.com/codesearch/p?hl=en#eN5TNOm7KtI/trunk/wlan/vendor/asus/eeepc/init.rc&q=[^a-z]oom_adj[^a-z]&sa=N&cd=70&ct=rc

Let's not change the ABI please.

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  parent reply	other threads:[~2010-02-11 21:44 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 140+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2010-02-10 16:32 [patch 0/7 -mm] oom killer rewrite David Rientjes
2010-02-10 16:32 ` David Rientjes
2010-02-10 16:32 ` [patch 1/7 -mm] oom: filter tasks not sharing the same cpuset David Rientjes
2010-02-10 16:32   ` David Rientjes
2010-02-10 17:08   ` Rik van Riel
2010-02-10 17:08     ` Rik van Riel
2010-02-11 23:52   ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-02-11 23:52     ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-02-15  2:56   ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-02-15  2:56     ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-02-15 22:06     ` David Rientjes
2010-02-15 22:06       ` David Rientjes
2010-02-16  4:52       ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-02-16  4:52         ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-02-16  6:01         ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-02-16  6:01           ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-02-16  7:03         ` Nick Piggin
2010-02-16  7:03           ` Nick Piggin
2010-02-16  8:49           ` David Rientjes
2010-02-16  8:49             ` David Rientjes
2010-02-16  9:04             ` Nick Piggin
2010-02-16  9:04               ` Nick Piggin
2010-02-16  9:10               ` David Rientjes
2010-02-16  9:10                 ` David Rientjes
2010-02-16  8:46         ` David Rientjes
2010-02-16  8:46           ` David Rientjes
2010-02-10 16:32 ` [patch 2/7 -mm] oom: sacrifice child with highest badness score for parent David Rientjes
2010-02-10 16:32   ` David Rientjes
2010-02-10 20:52   ` Rik van Riel
2010-02-10 20:52     ` Rik van Riel
2010-02-12  0:00   ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-02-12  0:00     ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-02-12  0:15     ` David Rientjes
2010-02-12  0:15       ` David Rientjes
2010-02-13  2:49   ` Minchan Kim
2010-02-13  2:49     ` Minchan Kim
2010-02-15  3:08   ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-02-15  3:08     ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-02-10 16:32 ` [patch 3/7 -mm] oom: select task from tasklist for mempolicy ooms David Rientjes
2010-02-10 16:32   ` David Rientjes
2010-02-10 22:47   ` Rik van Riel
2010-02-10 22:47     ` Rik van Riel
2010-02-15  5:03   ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-02-15  5:03     ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-02-15 22:11     ` David Rientjes
2010-02-15 22:11       ` David Rientjes
2010-02-16  5:15       ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-02-16  5:15         ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-02-16 21:52         ` David Rientjes
2010-02-16 21:52           ` David Rientjes
2010-02-17  0:48           ` David Rientjes
2010-02-17  0:48             ` David Rientjes
2010-02-17  1:13             ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-02-17  1:13               ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-02-10 16:32 ` [patch 4/7 -mm] oom: badness heuristic rewrite David Rientjes
2010-02-10 16:32   ` David Rientjes
2010-02-11  4:10   ` Rik van Riel
2010-02-11  4:10     ` Rik van Riel
2010-02-11  9:14     ` David Rientjes
2010-02-11  9:14       ` David Rientjes
2010-02-11 15:07       ` Nick Bowler
2010-02-11 15:07         ` Nick Bowler
2010-02-11 21:01         ` David Rientjes
2010-02-11 21:01           ` David Rientjes
2010-02-11 21:43       ` Andrew Morton [this message]
2010-02-11 21:43         ` Andrew Morton
2010-02-11 21:51         ` David Rientjes
2010-02-11 21:51           ` David Rientjes
2010-02-11 22:31           ` Andrew Morton
2010-02-11 22:31             ` Andrew Morton
2010-02-11 22:42             ` David Rientjes
2010-02-11 22:42               ` David Rientjes
2010-02-11 23:11               ` Andrew Morton
2010-02-11 23:11                 ` Andrew Morton
2010-02-11 23:31                 ` David Rientjes
2010-02-11 23:31                   ` David Rientjes
2010-02-11 23:37                   ` Andrew Morton
2010-02-11 23:37                     ` Andrew Morton
2010-02-12 13:56       ` Minchan Kim
2010-02-12 13:56         ` Minchan Kim
2010-02-12 21:00         ` David Rientjes
2010-02-12 21:00           ` David Rientjes
2010-02-13  2:45           ` Minchan Kim
2010-02-13  2:45             ` Minchan Kim
2010-02-15 21:54             ` David Rientjes
2010-02-15 21:54               ` David Rientjes
2010-02-16 13:14               ` Minchan Kim
2010-02-16 13:14                 ` Minchan Kim
2010-02-16 21:41                 ` David Rientjes
2010-02-16 21:41                   ` David Rientjes
2010-02-17  7:41                   ` Minchan Kim
2010-02-17  7:41                     ` Minchan Kim
2010-02-17  9:23                     ` David Rientjes
2010-02-17  9:23                       ` David Rientjes
2010-02-17 13:08                       ` Minchan Kim
2010-02-17 13:08                         ` Minchan Kim
2010-02-15  8:05   ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-02-15  8:05     ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-02-10 16:32 ` [patch 5/7 -mm] oom: replace sysctls with quick mode David Rientjes
2010-02-10 16:32   ` David Rientjes
2010-02-12  0:26   ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-02-12  0:26     ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-02-12  9:58     ` David Rientjes
2010-02-12  9:58       ` David Rientjes
2010-02-15  8:09   ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-02-15  8:09     ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-02-15 22:15     ` David Rientjes
2010-02-15 22:15       ` David Rientjes
2010-02-16  5:25       ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-02-16  5:25         ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-02-16  9:04         ` David Rientjes
2010-02-16  9:04           ` David Rientjes
2010-02-10 16:32 ` [patch 6/7 -mm] oom: avoid oom killer for lowmem allocations David Rientjes
2010-02-10 16:32   ` David Rientjes
2010-02-11  4:13   ` Rik van Riel
2010-02-11  4:13     ` Rik van Riel
2010-02-11  9:19     ` David Rientjes
2010-02-11  9:19       ` David Rientjes
2010-02-11 14:08       ` Rik van Riel
2010-02-11 14:08         ` Rik van Riel
2010-02-12  1:28   ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-02-12  1:28     ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-02-12 10:06     ` David Rientjes
2010-02-12 10:06       ` David Rientjes
2010-02-15  0:09       ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-02-15  0:09         ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-02-15 22:01         ` David Rientjes
2010-02-15 22:01           ` David Rientjes
2010-02-15  8:29   ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-02-15  8:29     ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-02-10 16:32 ` [patch 7/7 -mm] oom: remove unnecessary code and cleanup David Rientjes
2010-02-10 16:32   ` David Rientjes
2010-02-12  0:12   ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-02-12  0:12     ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-02-12  0:21     ` David Rientjes
2010-02-12  0:21       ` David Rientjes
2010-02-15  8:31       ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-02-15  8:31         ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-02-15  2:51 ` [patch 0/7 -mm] oom killer rewrite KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-02-15  2:51   ` KOSAKI Motohiro

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