From: Dave Chinner <david@fromorbit.com>
To: Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>
Cc: Suleiman Souhlal <ssouhlal@freebsd.org>,
KOSAKI Motohiro <kosaki.motohiro@jp.fujitsu.com>,
Mel Gorman <mel@csn.ul.ie>, Chris Mason <chris.mason@oracle.com>,
linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org,
linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, suleiman@google.com
Subject: Re: [PATCH 1/4] vmscan: delegate pageout io to flusher thread if current is kswapd
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 13:06:48 +1000 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20100417030648.GH2493@dastard> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20100416105002.191adeb1@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>
On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 10:50:02AM +0100, Alan Cox wrote:
> > No. If you are doing full disk seeks between random chunks, then you
> > still lose a large amount of throughput. e.g. if the seek time is
> > 10ms and your IO time is 10ms for each 4k page, then increasing the
> > size ito 64k makes it 10ms seek and 12ms for the IO. We might increase
> > throughput but we are still limited to 100 IOs per second. We've
> > gone from 400kB/s to 6MB/s, but that's still an order of magnitude
> > short of the 100MB/s full size IOs with little in way of seeks
> > between them will acheive on the same spindle...
>
> The usual armwaving numbers for ops/sec for an ATA disk are in the 200
> ops/sec range so that seems horribly credible.
Yeah, in my experience 7200rpm SATA will get you 200 ops/s when you
are doing really small seeks as the typical minimum seek time is
around 4-5ms. Average seek time, however, is usually in the range of
10ms, because full head sweep + spindle rotation seeks take in the
order of 15ms.
Hence small random IO tends to result in seek times nearer the
average seek time than the minimum, so that's what i tend to use for
determining the number of ops/s a disk will sustain.
> But then I've never quite understood why our anonymous paging isn't
> sorting stuff as best it can and then using the drive as a log structure
> with in memory metadata so it can stream the pages onto disk. Read
> performance is goig to be similar (maybe better if you have a log tidy
> when idle), write ought to be far better.
Sounds like a worthy project for someone to sink their teeth into.
Lots of people would like to have a system that can page out at
hundreds of megabytes a second....
Cheers,
Dave.
--
Dave Chinner
david@fromorbit.com
WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Dave Chinner <david@fromorbit.com>
To: Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>
Cc: Suleiman Souhlal <ssouhlal@freebsd.org>,
KOSAKI Motohiro <kosaki.motohiro@jp.fujitsu.com>,
Mel Gorman <mel@csn.ul.ie>, Chris Mason <chris.mason@oracle.com>,
linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org,
linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, suleiman@google.com
Subject: Re: [PATCH 1/4] vmscan: delegate pageout io to flusher thread if current is kswapd
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 13:06:48 +1000 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20100417030648.GH2493@dastard> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20100416105002.191adeb1@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>
On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 10:50:02AM +0100, Alan Cox wrote:
> > No. If you are doing full disk seeks between random chunks, then you
> > still lose a large amount of throughput. e.g. if the seek time is
> > 10ms and your IO time is 10ms for each 4k page, then increasing the
> > size ito 64k makes it 10ms seek and 12ms for the IO. We might increase
> > throughput but we are still limited to 100 IOs per second. We've
> > gone from 400kB/s to 6MB/s, but that's still an order of magnitude
> > short of the 100MB/s full size IOs with little in way of seeks
> > between them will acheive on the same spindle...
>
> The usual armwaving numbers for ops/sec for an ATA disk are in the 200
> ops/sec range so that seems horribly credible.
Yeah, in my experience 7200rpm SATA will get you 200 ops/s when you
are doing really small seeks as the typical minimum seek time is
around 4-5ms. Average seek time, however, is usually in the range of
10ms, because full head sweep + spindle rotation seeks take in the
order of 15ms.
Hence small random IO tends to result in seek times nearer the
average seek time than the minimum, so that's what i tend to use for
determining the number of ops/s a disk will sustain.
> But then I've never quite understood why our anonymous paging isn't
> sorting stuff as best it can and then using the drive as a log structure
> with in memory metadata so it can stream the pages onto disk. Read
> performance is goig to be similar (maybe better if you have a log tidy
> when idle), write ought to be far better.
Sounds like a worthy project for someone to sink their teeth into.
Lots of people would like to have a system that can page out at
hundreds of megabytes a second....
Cheers,
Dave.
--
Dave Chinner
david@fromorbit.com
--
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2010-04-17 3:07 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 245+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2010-04-13 0:17 [PATCH] mm: disallow direct reclaim page writeback Dave Chinner
2010-04-13 0:17 ` Dave Chinner
2010-04-13 8:31 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-13 8:31 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-13 10:29 ` Dave Chinner
2010-04-13 10:29 ` Dave Chinner
2010-04-13 11:39 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-13 11:39 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-13 14:36 ` Dave Chinner
2010-04-13 14:36 ` Dave Chinner
2010-04-14 3:12 ` Dave Chinner
2010-04-14 3:12 ` Dave Chinner
2010-04-14 6:52 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-14 6:52 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-15 1:56 ` Dave Chinner
2010-04-15 1:56 ` Dave Chinner
2010-04-14 6:52 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-14 6:52 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-14 7:36 ` Dave Chinner
2010-04-14 7:36 ` Dave Chinner
2010-04-13 9:58 ` Mel Gorman
2010-04-13 9:58 ` Mel Gorman
2010-04-13 11:19 ` Dave Chinner
2010-04-13 11:19 ` Dave Chinner
2010-04-13 19:34 ` Mel Gorman
2010-04-13 19:34 ` Mel Gorman
2010-04-13 20:20 ` Chris Mason
2010-04-13 20:20 ` Chris Mason
2010-04-14 1:40 ` Dave Chinner
2010-04-14 1:40 ` Dave Chinner
2010-04-14 4:59 ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-04-14 4:59 ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-04-14 5:41 ` Dave Chinner
2010-04-14 5:41 ` Dave Chinner
2010-04-14 5:54 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-14 5:54 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-14 6:13 ` Minchan Kim
2010-04-14 7:19 ` Minchan Kim
2010-04-14 7:19 ` Minchan Kim
2010-04-14 9:42 ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-04-14 9:42 ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-04-14 9:42 ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-04-14 10:01 ` Minchan Kim
2010-04-14 10:01 ` Minchan Kim
2010-04-14 10:07 ` Mel Gorman
2010-04-14 10:07 ` Mel Gorman
2010-04-14 10:07 ` Mel Gorman
2010-04-14 10:16 ` Minchan Kim
2010-04-14 10:16 ` Minchan Kim
2010-04-14 7:06 ` Dave Chinner
2010-04-14 7:06 ` Dave Chinner
2010-04-14 6:52 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-14 6:52 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-14 7:28 ` Dave Chinner
2010-04-14 7:28 ` Dave Chinner
2010-04-14 8:51 ` Mel Gorman
2010-04-14 8:51 ` Mel Gorman
2010-04-15 1:34 ` Dave Chinner
2010-04-15 1:34 ` Dave Chinner
2010-04-15 1:34 ` Dave Chinner
2010-04-15 4:09 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-15 4:09 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-15 4:11 ` [PATCH 1/4] vmscan: delegate pageout io to flusher thread if current is kswapd KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-15 4:11 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-15 4:11 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-15 8:05 ` Suleiman Souhlal
2010-04-15 8:05 ` Suleiman Souhlal
2010-04-15 8:17 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-15 8:17 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-15 8:26 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-15 8:26 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-15 10:30 ` Johannes Weiner
2010-04-15 10:30 ` Johannes Weiner
2010-04-15 17:24 ` Suleiman Souhlal
2010-04-15 17:24 ` Suleiman Souhlal
2010-04-20 2:56 ` Ying Han
2010-04-20 2:56 ` Ying Han
2010-04-15 9:32 ` Dave Chinner
2010-04-15 9:32 ` Dave Chinner
2010-04-15 9:41 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-15 9:41 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-15 17:27 ` Suleiman Souhlal
2010-04-15 17:27 ` Suleiman Souhlal
2010-04-15 23:33 ` Dave Chinner
2010-04-15 23:33 ` Dave Chinner
2010-04-15 23:41 ` Suleiman Souhlal
2010-04-15 23:41 ` Suleiman Souhlal
2010-04-16 9:50 ` Alan Cox
2010-04-16 9:50 ` Alan Cox
2010-04-17 3:06 ` Dave Chinner [this message]
2010-04-17 3:06 ` Dave Chinner
2010-04-15 8:18 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-15 8:18 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-15 8:18 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-15 10:31 ` Mel Gorman
2010-04-15 10:31 ` Mel Gorman
2010-04-15 11:26 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-15 11:26 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-15 4:13 ` [PATCH 2/4] vmscan: kill prev_priority completely KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-15 4:13 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-15 4:13 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-15 4:14 ` [PATCH 3/4] vmscan: move priority variable into scan_control KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-15 4:14 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-15 4:14 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-15 4:15 ` [PATCH 4/4] vmscan: delegate page cleaning io to flusher thread if VM pressure is low KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-15 4:15 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-15 4:15 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-15 4:35 ` [PATCH] mm: disallow direct reclaim page writeback KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-15 4:35 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-15 6:32 ` Dave Chinner
2010-04-15 6:32 ` Dave Chinner
2010-04-15 6:44 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-15 6:44 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-15 6:58 ` Dave Chinner
2010-04-15 6:58 ` Dave Chinner
2010-04-15 6:20 ` Dave Chinner
2010-04-15 6:20 ` Dave Chinner
2010-04-15 6:35 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-15 6:35 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-15 8:54 ` Dave Chinner
2010-04-15 8:54 ` Dave Chinner
2010-04-15 10:21 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-15 10:21 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-15 10:23 ` [PATCH 1/4] vmscan: simplify shrink_inactive_list() KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-15 10:23 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-15 13:15 ` Mel Gorman
2010-04-15 13:15 ` Mel Gorman
2010-04-15 15:01 ` Andi Kleen
2010-04-15 15:01 ` Andi Kleen
2010-04-15 15:44 ` Mel Gorman
2010-04-15 15:44 ` Mel Gorman
2010-04-15 16:54 ` Andi Kleen
2010-04-15 16:54 ` Andi Kleen
2010-04-15 23:40 ` Dave Chinner
2010-04-15 23:40 ` Dave Chinner
2010-04-16 7:13 ` Andi Kleen
2010-04-16 7:13 ` Andi Kleen
2010-04-16 14:57 ` Mel Gorman
2010-04-16 14:57 ` Mel Gorman
2010-04-17 2:37 ` Dave Chinner
2010-04-17 2:37 ` Dave Chinner
2010-04-16 14:55 ` Mel Gorman
2010-04-16 14:55 ` Mel Gorman
2010-04-15 18:22 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2010-04-16 9:39 ` Mel Gorman
2010-04-16 9:39 ` Mel Gorman
2010-04-15 10:24 ` [PATCH 2/4] [cleanup] mm: introduce free_pages_prepare KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-15 10:24 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-15 10:24 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-15 13:33 ` Mel Gorman
2010-04-15 13:33 ` Mel Gorman
2010-04-15 10:24 ` [PATCH 3/4] mm: introduce free_pages_bulk KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-15 10:24 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-15 10:24 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-15 13:46 ` Mel Gorman
2010-04-15 13:46 ` Mel Gorman
2010-04-15 10:26 ` [PATCH 4/4] vmscan: replace the pagevec in shrink_inactive_list() with list KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-15 10:26 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-15 10:28 ` [PATCH] mm: disallow direct reclaim page writeback Mel Gorman
2010-04-15 10:28 ` Mel Gorman
2010-04-15 13:42 ` Chris Mason
2010-04-15 13:42 ` Chris Mason
2010-04-15 17:50 ` tytso
2010-04-15 17:50 ` tytso
2010-04-15 17:50 ` tytso
2010-04-16 15:05 ` Mel Gorman
2010-04-16 15:05 ` Mel Gorman
2010-04-19 15:15 ` Mel Gorman
2010-04-19 15:15 ` Mel Gorman
2010-04-19 15:15 ` Mel Gorman
2010-04-19 17:38 ` Chris Mason
2010-04-16 15:05 ` Mel Gorman
2010-04-16 4:14 ` Dave Chinner
2010-04-16 4:14 ` Dave Chinner
2010-04-16 15:14 ` Mel Gorman
2010-04-16 15:14 ` Mel Gorman
2010-04-18 0:32 ` Andrew Morton
2010-04-18 0:32 ` Andrew Morton
2010-04-18 19:05 ` Christoph Hellwig
2010-04-18 19:05 ` Christoph Hellwig
2010-04-18 16:31 ` Andrew Morton
2010-04-18 16:31 ` Andrew Morton
2010-04-18 19:35 ` Christoph Hellwig
2010-04-18 19:35 ` Christoph Hellwig
2010-04-18 19:11 ` Sorin Faibish
2010-04-18 19:11 ` Sorin Faibish
2010-04-18 19:11 ` Sorin Faibish
2010-04-18 19:10 ` Sorin Faibish
2010-04-18 19:10 ` Sorin Faibish
2010-04-18 19:10 ` Sorin Faibish
2010-04-18 21:30 ` James Bottomley
2010-04-18 21:30 ` James Bottomley
2010-04-18 23:34 ` Sorin Faibish
2010-04-18 23:34 ` Sorin Faibish
2010-04-18 23:34 ` Sorin Faibish
2010-04-19 3:08 ` tytso
2010-04-19 3:08 ` tytso
2010-04-19 0:35 ` Dave Chinner
2010-04-19 0:35 ` Dave Chinner
2010-04-19 0:49 ` Arjan van de Ven
2010-04-19 0:49 ` Arjan van de Ven
2010-04-19 1:08 ` Dave Chinner
2010-04-19 1:08 ` Dave Chinner
2010-04-19 4:32 ` Arjan van de Ven
2010-04-19 4:32 ` Arjan van de Ven
2010-04-19 15:20 ` Mel Gorman
2010-04-19 15:20 ` Mel Gorman
2010-04-23 1:06 ` Dave Chinner
2010-04-23 1:06 ` Dave Chinner
2010-04-23 10:50 ` Mel Gorman
2010-04-23 10:50 ` Mel Gorman
2010-04-15 14:57 ` Andi Kleen
2010-04-15 14:57 ` Andi Kleen
2010-04-15 2:37 ` Johannes Weiner
2010-04-15 2:37 ` Johannes Weiner
2010-04-15 2:43 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-15 2:43 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-16 23:56 ` Johannes Weiner
2010-04-16 23:56 ` Johannes Weiner
2010-04-14 6:52 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-14 6:52 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-04-14 10:06 ` Andi Kleen
2010-04-14 10:06 ` Andi Kleen
2010-04-14 11:20 ` Chris Mason
2010-04-14 11:20 ` Chris Mason
2010-04-14 12:15 ` Andi Kleen
2010-04-14 12:15 ` Andi Kleen
2010-04-14 12:32 ` Alan Cox
2010-04-14 12:32 ` Alan Cox
2010-04-14 12:34 ` Andi Kleen
2010-04-14 12:34 ` Andi Kleen
2010-04-14 13:23 ` Mel Gorman
2010-04-14 13:23 ` Mel Gorman
2010-04-14 14:07 ` Chris Mason
2010-04-14 14:07 ` Chris Mason
2010-04-14 0:24 ` Minchan Kim
2010-04-14 0:24 ` Minchan Kim
2010-04-14 4:44 ` Dave Chinner
2010-04-14 4:44 ` Dave Chinner
2010-04-14 7:54 ` Minchan Kim
2010-04-14 7:54 ` Minchan Kim
2010-04-16 1:13 ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-04-16 1:13 ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-04-16 4:18 ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-04-16 4:18 ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
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