[lm-sensors] Lack of fan sensor output after Ubuntu upgrade

[lm-sensors] Lack of fan sensor output after Ubuntu upgrade

[Lars Ivar Igesund]

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Hi all,

I admit to using beta software, and to the possibility that the issue is not 
in lm-sensors, but since I'm very interested in getting my issue fixed, I think 
this list is the right place to start at least.

I upgraded to Ubuntu 10.10 beta today, and the almost immediate result is that 
the fan has become noisy as hell.

I have a Dell XPS Studio 17 laptop, bought earlier this year. It has (among 
other things) an i7 Q820 processor.

I never ran sensors before the upgrade (didn't have any fan issues there), so 
I don't know if there's any actual differences in the output, but here goes.

Just running sensors give me:

acpitz-virtual-0
Adapter: Virtual device
temp1:       +26.8°C  (crit = +127.0°C)                  
temp2:       +61.0°C  (crit = +85.0°C)  

Since I've little or no load on the CPU, I find the latter value unlikely high 
(but it seems to be dropping now so I'll guess I will see how it evolves). 
Anyway, I ran sensors-detect, and it found next to nothing apparently. I then 
downloaded the svn version, ran it, and it came to a different conclusion 
(doesn't Ubuntu beta 10.10 have a recent lm-sensors?):

I could/should install the coretemp module, and so I did. Now sensors gives 
me:

acpitz-virtual-0
Adapter: Virtual device
temp1:       +26.8°C  (crit = +127.0°C)                  
temp2:       +57.0°C  (crit = +85.0°C)                  

coretemp-isa-0000
Adapter: ISA adapter
Core 0:      +57.0°C  (high = +84.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)  

coretemp-isa-0001
Adapter: ISA adapter
Core 1:      +57.0°C  (high = +84.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)  

coretemp-isa-0002
Adapter: ISA adapter
Core 2:      +58.0°C  (high = +84.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)  

coretemp-isa-0003
Adapter: ISA adapter
Core 3:      +57.0°C  (high = +84.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)  

No fan speeds though, and I'd expected such info from a laptop this expensive. 
Looking at sensors-detect again, I have this:

Probing for Super-I/O at 0x4e/0x4f
Trying family `National Semiconductor'...                   Yes
Found unknown chip with ID 0x8512

Is this something of interest?

As a side note, the fan turned itself down a notch now, but it is still more 
noisy than I'd expect it (I think).

Anyway, if anyone would like to help me with suggestions or similar as to what 
to look for/what to test, it would be much appreciated. If there is something 
I can do to help the lm-sensors project in this regard, I'll do my best.

Best regards,
Lars Ivar Igesund


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Re: [lm-sensors] Lack of fan sensor output after Ubuntu upgrade

[Guenter Roeck]

On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 09:29:25AM -0400, Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I admit to using beta software, and to the possibility that the issue is not in lm-sensors, but since I'm very interested in getting my issue fixed, I think this list is the right place to start at least.
> 
> I upgraded to Ubuntu 10.10 beta today, and the almost immediate result is that the fan has become noisy as hell.
> 
> I have a Dell XPS Studio 17 laptop, bought earlier this year. It has (among other things) an i7 Q820 processor.
> 
> I never ran sensors before the upgrade (didn't have any fan issues there), so I don't know if there's any actual differences in the output, but here goes.
> 
The kernel should leave fans running on auto-configuration if a specific chip is
unsupported.

It may simply be that your new kernel _is_ running hotter. There was a discussion 
about such an issue on the kernel mailing list a few weeks ago. The fix should be
in the latest kernel. Maybe it isn't included in the Ubuntu 10.10 release yet.

> Just running sensors give me:
> 
> acpitz-virtual-0
> 
> Adapter: Virtual device
> 
> temp1: +26.8°C (crit = +127.0°C)
> 
> temp2: +61.0°C (crit = +85.0°C)
> 
> Since I've little or no load on the CPU, I find the latter value unlikely high (but it seems to be dropping now so I'll guess I will see how it evolves). Anyway, I ran sensors-detect, and it found next to nothing apparently. I then downloaded the svn version, ran it, and it came to a different conclusion (doesn't Ubuntu beta 10.10 have a recent lm-sensors?):
> 
> I could/should install the coretemp module, and so I did. Now sensors gives me:
> 
> acpitz-virtual-0
> 
> Adapter: Virtual device
> 
> temp1: +26.8°C (crit = +127.0°C)
> 
> temp2: +57.0°C (crit = +85.0°C)
> 
> coretemp-isa-0000
> 
> Adapter: ISA adapter
> 
> Core 0: +57.0°C (high = +84.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)
> 
> coretemp-isa-0001
> 
> Adapter: ISA adapter
> 
> Core 1: +57.0°C (high = +84.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)
> 
> coretemp-isa-0002
> 
> Adapter: ISA adapter
> 
> Core 2: +58.0°C (high = +84.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)
> 
> coretemp-isa-0003
> 
> Adapter: ISA adapter
> 
> Core 3: +57.0°C (high = +84.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)
> 
> No fan speeds though, and I'd expected such info from a laptop this expensive. Looking at sensors-detect again, I have this:
> 
I don't think laptop price has any correlation to chip support in the kernel. 
I'd be happy to add that support for the chip in your laptop if someone provides
me with a chip datasheet and donates a laptop.

> Probing for Super-I/O at 0x4e/0x4f
> 
> Trying family `National Semiconductor'... Yes
> 
> Found unknown chip with ID 0x8512
> 
> Is this something of interest?
> 
Most likely this is a Nuvoton chip; they use chip id 0x85 for another chip.
Don't recall seeing this specific ID, though, or why it is identified
as National Semiconductor.

Guenter

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Re: [lm-sensors] Lack of fan sensor output after Ubuntu upgrade

[Jean Delvare]

On Fri, 10 Sep 2010 09:15:27 -0700, Guenter Roeck wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 09:29:25AM -0400, Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:
> > Probing for Super-I/O at 0x4e/0x4f
> > 
> > Trying family `National Semiconductor'... Yes
> > 
> > Found unknown chip with ID 0x8512
> > 
> > Is this something of interest?
>
> Most likely this is a Nuvoton chip; they use chip id 0x85 for another chip.

This doesn't strike me as a particularly relevant data point.

> Don't recall seeing this specific ID, though, or why it is identified
> as National Semiconductor.

Different vendors use different "access keys" to the LPC configuration
space. These are sequences of bytes to be written to the register port.
National Semiconductor is (was) the only vendor without an access key,
that is, you can access the configuration space at any time. For this
reason, we try to detect National Semiconductor devices first.

Nuvoton indeed has one chip in this family (WPCD377I) because this
device is an older National Semiconductor device they inherited when
buying part of National Semiconductor's business a few years ago. So
the mysterious chip could indeed be a Nuvoton-labelled chip, but be a
National Semiconductor design.

Either way, most LPC chips on laptops are minimalist and don't include
hardware monitoring features, so there's probably little interest in
investigating this. The only way to move forward would be to find a
detailed listing of this laptop's parts (very hard to get usually) or
to open the laptop's case and have a visual look (usually not easy
either.)

As in most laptop cases, the problem and solution are more likely
related to laptop-specific code or ACPI.

-- 
Jean Delvare

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Re: [lm-sensors] Lack of fan sensor output after Ubuntu upgrade

[Jean Delvare]

On Sat, 11 Sep 2010 10:53:39 +0200, Jean Delvare wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Sep 2010 09:15:27 -0700, Guenter Roeck wrote:
> > On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 09:29:25AM -0400, Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:
> > > Probing for Super-I/O at 0x4e/0x4f
> > > 
> > > Trying family `National Semiconductor'... Yes
> > > 
> > > Found unknown chip with ID 0x8512
> > > 
> > > Is this something of interest?
> >
> > Most likely this is a Nuvoton chip; they use chip id 0x85 for another chip.
> 
> This doesn't strike me as a particularly relevant data point.

BTW... A quick search reveals that several Dell XPS Studio laptops
embed an ITE IT8512 infra-red receiver chip. Probably not a
coincidence...

-- 
Jean Delvare

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Re: [lm-sensors] Lack of fan sensor output after Ubuntu upgrade

[Guenter Roeck]

On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 04:53:39AM -0400, Jean Delvare wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Sep 2010 09:15:27 -0700, Guenter Roeck wrote:
> > On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 09:29:25AM -0400, Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:
> > > Probing for Super-I/O at 0x4e/0x4f
> > > 
> > > Trying family `National Semiconductor'... Yes
> > > 
> > > Found unknown chip with ID 0x8512
> > > 
> > > Is this something of interest?
> >
> > Most likely this is a Nuvoton chip; they use chip id 0x85 for another chip.
> 
> This doesn't strike me as a particularly relevant data point.
> 
I figured it may come handy when searching for the chip datasheet.

Guenter

> > Don't recall seeing this specific ID, though, or why it is identified
> > as National Semiconductor.
> 
> Different vendors use different "access keys" to the LPC configuration
> space. These are sequences of bytes to be written to the register port.
> National Semiconductor is (was) the only vendor without an access key,
> that is, you can access the configuration space at any time. For this
> reason, we try to detect National Semiconductor devices first.
> 
> Nuvoton indeed has one chip in this family (WPCD377I) because this
> device is an older National Semiconductor device they inherited when
> buying part of National Semiconductor's business a few years ago. So
> the mysterious chip could indeed be a Nuvoton-labelled chip, but be a
> National Semiconductor design.
> 
> Either way, most LPC chips on laptops are minimalist and don't include
> hardware monitoring features, so there's probably little interest in
> investigating this. The only way to move forward would be to find a
> detailed listing of this laptop's parts (very hard to get usually) or
> to open the laptop's case and have a visual look (usually not easy
> either.)
> 
> As in most laptop cases, the problem and solution are more likely
> related to laptop-specific code or ACPI.
> 
> -- 
> Jean Delvare

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Re: [lm-sensors] Lack of fan sensor output after Ubuntu upgrade

[Guenter Roeck]

On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 05:03:31AM -0400, Jean Delvare wrote:
> On Sat, 11 Sep 2010 10:53:39 +0200, Jean Delvare wrote:
> > On Fri, 10 Sep 2010 09:15:27 -0700, Guenter Roeck wrote:
> > > On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 09:29:25AM -0400, Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:
> > > > Probing for Super-I/O at 0x4e/0x4f
> > > > 
> > > > Trying family `National Semiconductor'... Yes
> > > > 
> > > > Found unknown chip with ID 0x8512
> > > > 
> > > > Is this something of interest?
> > >
> > > Most likely this is a Nuvoton chip; they use chip id 0x85 for another chip.
> > 
> > This doesn't strike me as a particularly relevant data point.
> 
> BTW... A quick search reveals that several Dell XPS Studio laptops
> embed an ITE IT8512 infra-red receiver chip. Probably not a
> coincidence...
> 
You are right. IT8512E/F is a Super-IO chip from ITE, and it uses 0x8512 as chip ID.

Guenter

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Re: [lm-sensors] Lack of fan sensor output after Ubuntu upgrade

[Lars Ivar Igesund]

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Fredag 10. september 2010 17.29.38 skreiv rxemi Gauthier

> For my dell vostro 3500 i8k module + package i8kutils add i8kctl help to 
> manage 3 speed only, never less than 2000 rpm
> for other dell xps we found this "write "i8k force=1" in /etc/modules 
> for fan control

I modprobed i8k and got

FATAL: Error inserting i8k (/lib/modules/2.6.35-20-
generic/kernel/drivers/char/i8k.ko): No such device

so presumably not the same hardware?

Fredag 10. september 2010 18.15.27 skreiv Guenter Roeck:
 
> It may simply be that your new kernel _is_ running hotter. There was a
> discussion about such an issue on the kernel mailing list a few weeks ago.
> The fix should be in the latest kernel. Maybe it isn't included in the
> Ubuntu 10.10 release yet.

The current latest kernel appear to be 2.6.35-20. Do you know which version 
should contain the fix?

Best,
Lars Ivar

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Re: [lm-sensors] Lack of fan sensor output after Ubuntu upgrade

[Jean Delvare]

On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 12:32:13 -0700, Guenter Roeck wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 05:03:31AM -0400, Jean Delvare wrote:
> > BTW... A quick search reveals that several Dell XPS Studio laptops
> > embed an ITE IT8512 infra-red receiver chip. Probably not a
> > coincidence...
> > 
> You are right. IT8512E/F is a Super-IO chip from ITE, and it uses 0x8512 as chip ID.

How do you know for sure? Do you have a datasheet? Once we're sure we
can identify the chip reliably, support should be added to
sensors-detect.

-- 
Jean Delvare

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Re: [lm-sensors] Lack of fan sensor output after Ubuntu upgrade

[Guenter Roeck]

On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 04:05:45AM -0400, Jean Delvare wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 12:32:13 -0700, Guenter Roeck wrote:
> > On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 05:03:31AM -0400, Jean Delvare wrote:
> > > BTW... A quick search reveals that several Dell XPS Studio laptops
> > > embed an ITE IT8512 infra-red receiver chip. Probably not a
> > > coincidence...
> > > 
> > You are right. IT8512E/F is a Super-IO chip from ITE, and it uses 0x8512 as chip ID.
> 
> How do you know for sure? Do you have a datasheet? Once we're sure we
> can identify the chip reliably, support should be added to
> sensors-detect.
> 
I was able to dig up a datasheet on the web, and checked the chip ID.
The datasheet is at http://www.docin.com/p-4432074.html. The site is in Chinese (?), 
and the datasheet is not in pdf but displayed with flash, so it is a bit cumbersome
to read.

Chip ID is 0x8512 (registers 0x20 and 0x21), and chip version is 0x22 (register 0x22).
Not sure if the version is correct, as it matches the register address, but that is
what it says.

I agree, it would make sense to add it to sensors-detect. I looked through the code,
but wasn't entirely sure how to do that, since the NS chip IDs are all 8 bit.
Can I just add an entry for chip ID 0x8512 ? Also, I don't know what to specify as logdev,
since the sensors are all accessed through an embedded 8032 controller. 

Guenter

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Re: [lm-sensors] Lack of fan sensor output after Ubuntu upgrade

[Jean Delvare]

Hi Guenter,

On Mon, 13 Sep 2010 07:17:16 -0700, Guenter Roeck wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 04:05:45AM -0400, Jean Delvare wrote:
> > On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 12:32:13 -0700, Guenter Roeck wrote:
> > > On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 05:03:31AM -0400, Jean Delvare wrote:
> > > > BTW... A quick search reveals that several Dell XPS Studio laptops
> > > > embed an ITE IT8512 infra-red receiver chip. Probably not a
> > > > coincidence...
> > > > 
> > > You are right. IT8512E/F is a Super-IO chip from ITE, and it uses 0x8512 as chip ID.
> > 
> > How do you know for sure? Do you have a datasheet? Once we're sure we
> > can identify the chip reliably, support should be added to
> > sensors-detect.
> > 
> I was able to dig up a datasheet on the web, and checked the chip ID.
> The datasheet is at http://www.docin.com/p-4432074.html. The site is in Chinese (?), 
> and the datasheet is not in pdf but displayed with flash, so it is a bit cumbersome
> to read.

Indeed not user-friendly, and quite possibly illegal.

> Chip ID is 0x8512 (registers 0x20 and 0x21), and chip version is 0x22 (register 0x22).
> Not sure if the version is correct, as it matches the register address, but that is
> what it says.
> 
> I agree, it would make sense to add it to sensors-detect. I looked through the code,
> but wasn't entirely sure how to do that, since the NS chip IDs are all 8 bit.
> Can I just add an entry for chip ID 0x8512 ?

Yes, this should work. The code automatically figures out if there are
one or two device ID registers.

> Also, I don't know what to specify as logdev,
> since the sensors are all accessed through an embedded 8032 controller. 

That's more of an issue. The point of listing a logical device is that
logical devices can be disabled, so it's a convenient way to figure out
whether the monitoring feature is used on a given system. If the
"embedded 8032 controller" corresponds to one logical device then
that's the one to test. If not, we may have to write custom code for
this device.

-- 
Jean Delvare

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Re: [lm-sensors] Lack of fan sensor output after Ubuntu upgrade

[Guenter Roeck]

On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 10:43:57AM -0400, Jean Delvare wrote:
> Hi Guenter,
> 
> On Mon, 13 Sep 2010 07:17:16 -0700, Guenter Roeck wrote:
> > On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 04:05:45AM -0400, Jean Delvare wrote:
> > > On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 12:32:13 -0700, Guenter Roeck wrote:
> > > > On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 05:03:31AM -0400, Jean Delvare wrote:
> > > > > BTW... A quick search reveals that several Dell XPS Studio laptops
> > > > > embed an ITE IT8512 infra-red receiver chip. Probably not a
> > > > > coincidence...
> > > > > 
> > > > You are right. IT8512E/F is a Super-IO chip from ITE, and it uses 0x8512 as chip ID.
> > > 
> > > How do you know for sure? Do you have a datasheet? Once we're sure we
> > > can identify the chip reliably, support should be added to
> > > sensors-detect.
> > > 
> > I was able to dig up a datasheet on the web, and checked the chip ID.
> > The datasheet is at http://www.docin.com/p-4432074.html. The site is in Chinese (?), 
> > and the datasheet is not in pdf but displayed with flash, so it is a bit cumbersome
> > to read.
> 
> Indeed not user-friendly, and quite possibly illegal.
> 
> > Chip ID is 0x8512 (registers 0x20 and 0x21), and chip version is 0x22 (register 0x22).
> > Not sure if the version is correct, as it matches the register address, but that is
> > what it says.
> > 
> > I agree, it would make sense to add it to sensors-detect. I looked through the code,
> > but wasn't entirely sure how to do that, since the NS chip IDs are all 8 bit.
> > Can I just add an entry for chip ID 0x8512 ?
> 
> Yes, this should work. The code automatically figures out if there are
> one or two device ID registers.
> 
> > Also, I don't know what to specify as logdev,
> > since the sensors are all accessed through an embedded 8032 controller. 
> 
> That's more of an issue. The point of listing a logical device is that
> logical devices can be disabled, so it's a convenient way to figure out
> whether the monitoring feature is used on a given system. If the
> "embedded 8032 controller" corresponds to one logical device then
> that's the one to test. If not, we may have to write custom code for
> this device.
> 
It looks like data is passed between 8031 and host using LDA 11h and/or 12h
(power management).  However, if those LDAs are active, it does not mean that
ADCs or fan control is active. The datasheet does not specify details of ADC
and fan control communication between host and 8031; that seems to be microcode
specific. Also, it looks like the 8031 code is system specific and not provided
by the chip vendor. So it might not even be possible to obtain ADC and fan control
status.

Or, of course, I might simply be missing something.

For sensors-detect, we could possibly tag ADC and fan control support to 
LDA 11h and/or 12h. Would that make sense ?

Guenter


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Re: [lm-sensors] Lack of fan sensor output after Ubuntu upgrade

[Jean Delvare]

On Mon, 13 Sep 2010 09:13:49 -0700, Guenter Roeck wrote:
> It looks like data is passed between 8031 and host using LDA 11h and/or 12h
> (power management).  However, if those LDAs are active, it does not mean that
> ADCs or fan control is active. The datasheet does not specify details of ADC
> and fan control communication between host and 8031; that seems to be microcode
> specific. Also, it looks like the 8031 code is system specific and not provided
> by the chip vendor. So it might not even be possible to obtain ADC and fan control
> status.
> 
> Or, of course, I might simply be missing something.
> 
> For sensors-detect, we could possibly tag ADC and fan control support to 
> LDA 11h and/or 12h. Would that make sense ?

If there's hope to ever write a driver for this, yes it makes sense. If
not, we're probably better off just claiming that the device has no
monitoring features.

-- 
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Re: [lm-sensors] Lack of fan sensor output after Ubuntu upgrade

[Guenter Roeck]

On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 01:02:06PM -0400, Jean Delvare wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Sep 2010 09:13:49 -0700, Guenter Roeck wrote:
> > It looks like data is passed between 8031 and host using LDA 11h and/or 12h
> > (power management).  However, if those LDAs are active, it does not mean that
> > ADCs or fan control is active. The datasheet does not specify details of ADC
> > and fan control communication between host and 8031; that seems to be microcode
> > specific. Also, it looks like the 8031 code is system specific and not provided
> > by the chip vendor. So it might not even be possible to obtain ADC and fan control
> > status.
> > 
> > Or, of course, I might simply be missing something.
> > 
> > For sensors-detect, we could possibly tag ADC and fan control support to 
> > LDA 11h and/or 12h. Would that make sense ?
> 
> If there's hope to ever write a driver for this, yes it makes sense. If
> not, we're probably better off just claiming that the device has no
> monitoring features.
> 
After browsing through the datasheet, I don't think there is hope to ever
write a driver for this chip. I'll update sensors-detect to reflect this.

Guenter

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Re: [lm-sensors] Lack of fan sensor output after Ubuntu upgrade

[Guenter Roeck]

On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 02:44:32AM -0400, Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:
[...]
> 
> > It may simply be that your new kernel _is_ running hotter. There was a
> 
> > discussion about such an issue on the kernel mailing list a few weeks ago.
> 
> > The fix should be in the latest kernel. Maybe it isn't included in the
> 
> > Ubuntu 10.10 release yet.
> 
> The current latest kernel appear to be 2.6.35-20. Do you know which version should contain the fix?
> 
The mailing list thread is "high power consumption in recent kernels".
There are a couple of proposed patches, but I don't know if anything
has been integrated into the kernel. The discussion is still ongoing.

Guenter

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