"Decode videos"

"Decode videos"

[Mikhail Ramendik]

Hello,

http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/FeatureMatrix lists "Decode
videos" as WIP for NV30 and NV40 seies.

As I have an NV44, I would really like to know - what is this feature
going to be? VDPAU support for these cards, or XvMC, or something
else?

Thanks!

-- 
Yours, Mikhail Ramendik

Unless explicitly stated, all opinions in my mail are my own and do
not reflect the views of any organization

Re: "Decode videos"

[Xavier Chantry]

On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 7:35 PM, Mikhail Ramendik <mr-eJ/51bLfIl8ox3rIn2DAYQ@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/FeatureMatrix lists "Decode
> videos" as WIP for NV30 and NV40 seies.
>
> As I have an NV44, I would really like to know - what is this feature
> going to be? VDPAU support for these cards, or XvMC, or something
> else?
>

According to http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/nouveau/2010-August/006142.html
and the following mails/patches : XvMC.

Not sure what is possible on nv40 but that subject was discussed quickly here:
http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/nouveau/2010-May/005726.html

Re: "Decode videos"

[Jimmy Rentz]

On Mon, 6 Dec 2010 23:05:10 +0100
Xavier Chantry <chantry.xavier-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:

> On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 7:35 PM, Mikhail Ramendik <mr-eJ/51bLfIl8ox3rIn2DAYQ@public.gmane.org>
> wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/FeatureMatrix lists "Decode
> > videos" as WIP for NV30 and NV40 seies.
> >
> > As I have an NV44, I would really like to know - what is this
> > feature going to be? VDPAU support for these cards, or XvMC, or
> > something else?
> >
> 
> According to
> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/nouveau/2010-August/006142.html
> and the following mails/patches : XvMC.
> 
> Not sure what is possible on nv40 but that subject was discussed
> quickly here:
> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/nouveau/2010-May/005726.html

Initially I would say XVMC.  VDPAU expects full hw bitstream
decode.  XVMC only does decode starting at idct/mb.  I am guessing it
is possible to support VDPAU by doing the earlier stages in software
then handling the reset to hw.  Well, unless someone figures out some
way to handle the full pipeline in hw via shaders which is something
I have no time or knowledge.  

The latest version of the video decode/vpe/nv40 patches are here:
http://people.freedesktop.org/~jb17bsome/vpe/ddx/ddx_nouveau_vpe_v1.patch
http://people.freedesktop.org/~jb17bsome/vpe/drm/drm_nouveau_vpe_v5.patch
http://people.freedesktop.org/~jb17bsome/vpe/kernel/kernel_nouveau_vpe_v6.patch
http://people.freedesktop.org/~jb17bsome/vpe/mesa/mesa_pipe_video_nouveau_vpe_v3.patch 
For mesa you need to pull the pipe-video branch.  All the others apply
fine against the latest branches for the ddx, drm, nouveau kernel.

The current patches integrate vpe better with gem/ttm.  This means
that relocs/fences are emitted and it doesn't just pin all memory like
before. Though, it does runs much slower compared to my last non-gem
version located under the old directories in (ddx/drm/kernel/mesa).  I
am fairly certain from oprofile dumps that it is because of too many
relocs emitted or something, but I haven't followed up.

Anyway hopes this helps.

Jimmy

Re: "Decode videos"

[Roger]

On Mon, Dec 06, 2010 at 08:07:07PM -0500, Jimmy Rentz wrote:
>Initially I would say XVMC.  VDPAU expects full hw bitstream
>decode.  XVMC only does decode starting at idct/mb.  I am guessing it
>is possible to support VDPAU by doing the earlier stages in software
>then handling the reset to hw.  Well, unless someone figures out some
>way to handle the full pipeline in hw via shaders which is something
>I have no time or knowledge.  
>
>The latest version of the video decode/vpe/nv40 patches are here:
>http://people.freedesktop.org/~jb17bsome/vpe/ddx/ddx_nouveau_vpe_v1.patch
>http://people.freedesktop.org/~jb17bsome/vpe/drm/drm_nouveau_vpe_v5.patch
>http://people.freedesktop.org/~jb17bsome/vpe/kernel/kernel_nouveau_vpe_v6.patch
>http://people.freedesktop.org/~jb17bsome/vpe/mesa/mesa_pipe_video_nouveau_vpe_v3.patch 
>For mesa you need to pull the pipe-video branch.  All the others apply
>fine against the latest branches for the ddx, drm, nouveau kernel.
>
>The current patches integrate vpe better with gem/ttm.  This means
>that relocs/fences are emitted and it doesn't just pin all memory like
>before. Though, it does runs much slower compared to my last non-gem
>version located under the old directories in (ddx/drm/kernel/mesa).  I
>am fairly certain from oprofile dumps that it is because of too many
>relocs emitted or something, but I haven't followed up.
>
>Anyway hopes this helps.
>
>Jimmy

Just a quick ping on this topic.

I have 2 video cards with XvMC capabilities on 450P3 and 2x750P3 CPU's, of
which, XvMC is required for playback of high resolution video... unless
I use the rough MPlayer slow CPU scaling hacks.

I hopefully plan to experiment with the XvMC patches in the near future.

-- 
Roger
http://rogerx.freeshell.org/

Re: "Decode videos"

[James Courtier-Dutton]

On 7 December 2010 01:07, Jimmy Rentz <jb17bsome@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 6 Dec 2010 23:05:10 +0100
> Xavier Chantry <chantry.xavier@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 7:35 PM, Mikhail Ramendik <mr@ramendik.ru>
>> wrote:
>> > Hello,
>> >
>> > http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/FeatureMatrix lists "Decode
>> > videos" as WIP for NV30 and NV40 seies.
>> >
>> > As I have an NV44, I would really like to know - what is this
>> > feature going to be? VDPAU support for these cards, or XvMC, or
>> > something else?
>> >
>>
>> According to
>> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/nouveau/2010-August/006142.html
>> and the following mails/patches : XvMC.
>>
>> Not sure what is possible on nv40 but that subject was discussed
>> quickly here:
>> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/nouveau/2010-May/005726.html
>
> Initially I would say XVMC.  VDPAU expects full hw bitstream
> decode.  XVMC only does decode starting at idct/mb.  I am guessing it
> is possible to support VDPAU by doing the earlier stages in software
> then handling the reset to hw.  Well, unless someone figures out some
> way to handle the full pipeline in hw via shaders which is something
> I have no time or knowledge.
>

I think it would be better if one could do vdpau in software and then
initially offload the idct/mb to the hardware.
The reason being vdpau supports mpeg2 and mpeg4, XVMC only supports mpeg2.
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Re: "Decode videos"

[Jimmy Rentz]

On Tue, 7 Dec 2010 13:58:22 +0000
James Courtier-Dutton <james.dutton@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 7 December 2010 01:07, Jimmy Rentz <jb17bsome@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Mon, 6 Dec 2010 23:05:10 +0100
> > Xavier Chantry <chantry.xavier@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 7:35 PM, Mikhail Ramendik <mr@ramendik.ru>
> >> wrote:
> >> > Hello,
> >> >
> >> > http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/FeatureMatrix lists "Decode
> >> > videos" as WIP for NV30 and NV40 seies.
> >> >
> >> > As I have an NV44, I would really like to know - what is this
> >> > feature going to be? VDPAU support for these cards, or XvMC, or
> >> > something else?
> >> >
> >>
> >> According to
> >> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/nouveau/2010-August/006142.html
> >> and the following mails/patches : XvMC.
> >>
> >> Not sure what is possible on nv40 but that subject was discussed
> >> quickly here:
> >> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/nouveau/2010-May/005726.html
> >
> > Initially I would say XVMC.  VDPAU expects full hw bitstream
> > decode.  XVMC only does decode starting at idct/mb.  I am guessing
> > it is possible to support VDPAU by doing the earlier stages in
> > software then handling the reset to hw.  Well, unless someone
> > figures out some way to handle the full pipeline in hw via shaders
> > which is something I have no time or knowledge.
> >
> 
> I think it would be better if one could do vdpau in software and then
> initially offload the idct/mb to the hardware.
> The reason being vdpau supports mpeg2 and mpeg4, XVMC only supports
> mpeg2.

Yes, XVMC is very old and some software (mythtv for one) are
removing support for it.  There are some initial VDPAU stubs in the
mesa.pipe-video patch but they don't do anything but support querying
caps,etc and not decode/presentation.  
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Re: "Decode videos"

[Mikhail Ramendik]

On 7 December 2010 01:07, Jimmy Rentz <jb17bsome-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:

> Initially I would say XVMC.  VDPAU expects full hw bitstream
> decode.  XVMC only does decode starting at idct/mb.  I am guessing it
> is possible to support VDPAU by doing the earlier stages in software
> then handling the reset to hw.  Well, unless someone figures out some
> way to handle the full pipeline in hw via shaders which is something
> I have no time or knowledge.

Just had an idea - perhaps VAAPI would be easier to support than VDPAU?

The main thing would probably be h264, as that is the only format
which some modern CPUs are not strong enough to decode.


-- 
Yours, Mikhail Ramendik

Unless explicitly stated, all opinions in my mail are my own and do
not reflect the views of any organization

Re: "Decode videos"

[James Courtier-Dutton]

On 16 December 2010 19:28, Mikhail Ramendik <mr@ramendik.ru> wrote:
> On 7 December 2010 01:07, Jimmy Rentz <jb17bsome@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Initially I would say XVMC.  VDPAU expects full hw bitstream
>> decode.  XVMC only does decode starting at idct/mb.  I am guessing it
>> is possible to support VDPAU by doing the earlier stages in software
>> then handling the reset to hw.  Well, unless someone figures out some
>> way to handle the full pipeline in hw via shaders which is something
>> I have no time or knowledge.
>
> Just had an idea - perhaps VAAPI would be easier to support than VDPAU?
>
> The main thing would probably be h264, as that is the only format
> which some modern CPUs are not strong enough to decode.
>

That is correct. XVMC only does MPEG2 that most PCs can do with just
XV, and nouveau already supports XV.
I can run nouveau on a ATOM-ION box using the nouveau XV driver for
MPEG2 SD movies.
VDPAU is required for HD H264/MPEG4 movies as the ATOM-ION cannot do
HD H264 with XV.

So, i agree, getting nouveau to support H264/MPEG4 playback would be good.
It does not even have to be vdpau or vaapi. It could be a new API if
that would be easier.
The idct/mb parts of decoding H264/MPEG4 is still the most CPU
intensive and best to do on the graphics card if possible.
Decoding the bitstream decoding is probably OK to do in software on
the CPU instead of the GPU.

Kind Regards

James
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Re: "Decode videos"

[Jimmy Rentz]

On Thu, 16 Dec 2010 19:44:06 +0000
James Courtier-Dutton <james.dutton@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 16 December 2010 19:28, Mikhail Ramendik <mr@ramendik.ru> wrote:
> > On 7 December 2010 01:07, Jimmy Rentz <jb17bsome@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Initially I would say XVMC.  VDPAU expects full hw bitstream
> >> decode.  XVMC only does decode starting at idct/mb.  I am guessing
> >> it is possible to support VDPAU by doing the earlier stages in
> >> software then handling the reset to hw.  Well, unless someone
> >> figures out some way to handle the full pipeline in hw via shaders
> >> which is something I have no time or knowledge.
> >
> > Just had an idea - perhaps VAAPI would be easier to support than
> > VDPAU?
> >
> > The main thing would probably be h264, as that is the only format
> > which some modern CPUs are not strong enough to decode.
> >
> 
> That is correct. XVMC only does MPEG2 that most PCs can do with just
> XV, and nouveau already supports XV.
> I can run nouveau on a ATOM-ION box using the nouveau XV driver for
> MPEG2 SD movies.
> VDPAU is required for HD H264/MPEG4 movies as the ATOM-ION cannot do
> HD H264 with XV.
> 
> So, i agree, getting nouveau to support H264/MPEG4 playback would be
> good. It does not even have to be vdpau or vaapi. It could be a new
> API if that would be easier.
> The idct/mb parts of decoding H264/MPEG4 is still the most CPU
> intensive and best to do on the graphics card if possible.
> Decoding the bitstream decoding is probably OK to do in software on
> the CPU instead of the GPU.
> 
> Kind Regards
> 
> James

Yes, MPEG2 accel isn't really useful currently.  It is just that
I re that stuff a long time ago for playing 1080i mpeg2 hd.  I needed it
for my XP1700 Athlon since it couldn't handle it, etc.  

It would be nice for H.264 to be supported in nouveau.  The
problem is that someone would have to write a shader to perform
the mb/idct stage.  I guess it is doable, but I imagine that some gpus
will have trouble running the shaders without slowing down too
much.  However, it is unrealistic to think (for me) that someone will be
trying to watch a H.264 blu-ray on an NV30/NV40.
The ideal H.264 solution is to have full hw offload for >= NV50 cards
using the decode hw.  That could take some time since the hw
microcode/programs will need to be re if I remember correctly.

Jimmy
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Re: "Decode videos"

[Mikhail Ramendik]

On 17 December 2010 01:10, Jimmy Rentz <jb17bsome-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:

> It would be nice for H.264 to be supported in nouveau.  The
> problem is that someone would have to write a shader to perform
> the mb/idct stage.  I guess it is doable, but I imagine that some gpus
> will have trouble running the shaders without slowing down too
> much.  However, it is unrealistic to think (for me) that someone will be
> trying to watch a H.264 blu-ray on an NV30/NV40.
> The ideal H.264 solution is to have full hw offload for >= NV50 cards
> using the decode hw.  That could take some time since the hw
> microcode/programs will need to be re if I remember correctly.

Well, h.264 is not just used in Blu Ray. There are satellite HD
programs and recordings of such. I have some (on UK Freesat), and I
have an NV44.

In my particular case, I got the NV44 in late 2006 because it had no
fan (I wanted a quiet system) and it gave a DVI output to my AGP
motherboard. Upgrading that would mean replacing the motherboard (to
get PCIx), that means replacing the RAM... and all that to see HD sat?

Or should I just forget acceleration and try to tweak the decoder -
currently the xine engine in kaffeine - to do HD sat in CPU? It's a 3
GHz P4 so it might do it, especially since the bitrate is not that
high and no scaling is required? I could do with 720p if I knew how to
decode that from a "full HD" stream.

-- 
Yours, Mikhail Ramendik

Unless explicitly stated, all opinions in my mail are my own and do
not reflect the views of any organization