* [BUG] insufficient quoting between "tap-ctl list" and xend/server/BlktapController.py
@ 2011-11-25 16:21 Philipp Hahn
2011-11-25 19:57 ` Philipp Hahn
0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Philipp Hahn @ 2011-11-25 16:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: xen-devel@lists.xensource.com
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Hello,
I have a problem shutting down a domU with xen-4.1.2, which doesn't terminate
the corresponding blktap2 process, since one (other) VM uses a image file,
which contains spaces in its file name.
/var/log/xen/xend-debug.log has the following information:
Unhandled exception in thread started by
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/xen/xend/server/BlktapController.py",
line 199, in finishDeviceCleanup
TapdiskController.destroy(path)
File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/xen/xend/server/BlktapController.py",
line 289, in destroy
tapdisk = TapdiskController.fromDevice(device)
File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/xen/xend/server/BlktapController.py",
line 278, in fromDevice
TapdiskController.list())
File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/xen/xend/server/BlktapController.py",
line 256, in list
key, value = pair.split('=')
ValueError: need more than 1 value to unpack
BlktapController calls "tap-ctl list", which outputs one line for each
process. Each line contains key=value pairs without any quoting.
# tap-ctl list | grep 'args=.*:.* '
pid=10145 minor=18 state=0 args=aio:/var/lib/libvirt/images/Xen Windows
drivers (gplpv 308).iso
(passing the output of tap-ctl through a pipe is important, since it switches
to a different list-format when STDOUT is a tty.)
BlktapController splits the output into lines using \n, then each line at each
space, and finally each of these 'words' at the '=', which fails for the
filename.
tap-ctl should probably be changed to use some quoting when printing the
filename.
Sincerely
Philipp
--
Philipp Hahn Open Source Software Engineer hahn@univention.de
Univention GmbH Linux for Your Business fon: +49 421 22 232- 0
Mary-Somerville-Str.1 D-28359 Bremen fax: +49 421 22 232-99
http://www.univention.de/
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread* Re: [BUG] insufficient quoting between "tap-ctl list" and xend/server/BlktapController.py 2011-11-25 16:21 [BUG] insufficient quoting between "tap-ctl list" and xend/server/BlktapController.py Philipp Hahn @ 2011-11-25 19:57 ` Philipp Hahn 2011-12-01 18:31 ` Ian Jackson 0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Philipp Hahn @ 2011-11-25 19:57 UTC (permalink / raw) To: xen-devel [-- Attachment #1.1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 889 bytes --] Hello, On Friday 25 November 2011 17:21:08 Philipp Hahn wrote: > BlktapController splits the output into lines using \n, then each line at > each space, and finally each of these 'words' at the '=', which fails for > the filename. As a quick work-around, the attached patch fixes the problem for me. That is, until tap-ctl changes it's output format. A more permanent solution would be to add proper quoting / escaping to tap-ctl and un-quoting / de-escaping to BlktapController.py Signed-off-by: Philipp Hahn <hahn@univention.de> Sincerely Philipp -- Philipp Hahn Open Source Software Engineer hahn@univention.de Univention GmbH Linux for Your Business fon: +49 421 22 232- 0 Mary-Somerville-Str.1 D-28359 Bremen fax: +49 421 22 232-99 http://www.univention.de/ [-- Attachment #1.1.2: 0004-tap-ctl.patch --] [-- Type: text/x-diff, Size: 2832 bytes --] Bug #18357: Fix tap-ctl parsing. Shutting down a domU with xen-4.1.2 doesn't terminate the corresponding blktap2 process, since one (other) VM uses a image file, which contains spaces in its file name. /var/log/xen/xend-debug.log has the following information: Unhandled exception in thread started by Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/xen/xend/server/BlktapController.py", line 199, in finishDeviceCleanup TapdiskController.destroy(path) File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/xen/xend/server/BlktapController.py", line 289, in destroy tapdisk = TapdiskController.fromDevice(device) File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/xen/xend/server/BlktapController.py", line 278, in fromDevice TapdiskController.list()) File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/xen/xend/server/BlktapController.py", line 256, in list key, value = pair.split('=') ValueError: need more than 1 value to unpack BlktapController calls "tap-ctl list", which outputs one line for each process. Each line contains key=value pairs without any quoting. # tap-ctl list | grep 'args=.*:.* ' pid=10145 minor=18 state=0 args=aio:/var/lib/libvirt/images/Xen Windows drivers (gplpv 308).iso (passing the output of tap-ctl through a pipe is important, since it switches to a different list-format when STDOUT is a tty.) BlktapController splits the output into lines using \n, then each line at each space, and finally each of these 'words' at the '=', which fails for the filename. Limit the number of splits as a fast work-around. --- a/tools/python/xen/xend/server/BlktapController.py +++ b/tools/python/xen/xend/server/BlktapController.py @@ -249,11 +249,12 @@ class TapdiskController(object): _list = TapdiskController.exc('list') if not _list: return [] - for line in _list.split('\n'): + for line in _list.splitlines(): tapdisk = TapdiskController.Tapdisk() - for pair in line.split(): - key, value = pair.split('=') + # Since 'tap-ctl list' does not escape blanks in the path, hard-code the current format using 4 pairs to prevent splitting the path + for pair in line.split(None, 4): + key, value = pair.split('=', 1) if key == 'pid': tapdisk.pid = value elif key == 'minor': @@ -264,7 +265,7 @@ class TapdiskController(object): elif key == 'state': tapdisk.state = value elif key == 'args' and value.find(':') != -1: - tapdisk.dtype, tapdisk.image = value.split(':') + tapdisk.dtype, tapdisk.image = value.split(':', 1) tapdisks.append(tapdisk) [-- Attachment #1.2: This is a digitally signed message part. --] [-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 197 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 138 bytes --] _______________________________________________ Xen-devel mailing list Xen-devel@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-devel ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [BUG] insufficient quoting between "tap-ctl list" and xend/server/BlktapController.py 2011-11-25 19:57 ` Philipp Hahn @ 2011-12-01 18:31 ` Ian Jackson 2011-12-01 19:37 ` Pasi Kärkkäinen 2011-12-03 20:42 ` [PATCHv2] " Philipp Hahn 0 siblings, 2 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Ian Jackson @ 2011-12-01 18:31 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Philipp Hahn; +Cc: xen-devel Philipp Hahn writes ("Re: [Xen-devel] [BUG] insufficient quoting between "tap-ctl list" and xend/server/BlktapController.py"): > As a quick work-around, the attached patch fixes the problem for me. That is, > until tap-ctl changes it's output format. Thanks, I have applied it. > A more permanent solution would be to add proper quoting / escaping to tap-ctl > and un-quoting / de-escaping to BlktapController.py xend is pretty much obsolete now and I don't imagine we'll be doing any rework like that soon I'm afraid. Ian. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [BUG] insufficient quoting between "tap-ctl list" and xend/server/BlktapController.py 2011-12-01 18:31 ` Ian Jackson @ 2011-12-01 19:37 ` Pasi Kärkkäinen 2011-12-01 19:51 ` Ian Campbell 2011-12-03 20:42 ` [PATCHv2] " Philipp Hahn 1 sibling, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Pasi Kärkkäinen @ 2011-12-01 19:37 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Ian Jackson; +Cc: xen-devel, Philipp Hahn On Thu, Dec 01, 2011 at 06:31:04PM +0000, Ian Jackson wrote: > Philipp Hahn writes ("Re: [Xen-devel] [BUG] insufficient quoting between "tap-ctl list" and xend/server/BlktapController.py"): > > As a quick work-around, the attached patch fixes the problem for me. That is, > > until tap-ctl changes it's output format. > > Thanks, I have applied it. > > > A more permanent solution would be to add proper quoting / escaping to tap-ctl > > and un-quoting / de-escaping to BlktapController.py > > xend is pretty much obsolete now and I don't imagine we'll be doing > any rework like that soon I'm afraid. > I realize xend doesn't get much attention anymore, but it's still the only way to use some features, like: pvusb, pvscsi, remus, block scripts, etc.. So it's good to apply at least bugfix patches :) -- Pasi ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [BUG] insufficient quoting between "tap-ctl list" and xend/server/BlktapController.py 2011-12-01 19:37 ` Pasi Kärkkäinen @ 2011-12-01 19:51 ` Ian Campbell 2011-12-02 8:51 ` [libvirt] [Xen-devel] [BUG] insufficient quoting between " tap-ctl list " " Philipp Hahn 0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Ian Campbell @ 2011-12-01 19:51 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Pasi Kärkkäinen Cc: xen-devel@lists.xensource.com, Ian Jackson, Philipp Hahn On Thu, 2011-12-01 at 19:37 +0000, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote: > On Thu, Dec 01, 2011 at 06:31:04PM +0000, Ian Jackson wrote: > > Philipp Hahn writes ("Re: [Xen-devel] [BUG] insufficient quoting between "tap-ctl list" and xend/server/BlktapController.py"): > > > As a quick work-around, the attached patch fixes the problem for me. That is, > > > until tap-ctl changes it's output format. > > > > Thanks, I have applied it. > > > > > A more permanent solution would be to add proper quoting / escaping to tap-ctl > > > and un-quoting / de-escaping to BlktapController.py > > > > xend is pretty much obsolete now and I don't imagine we'll be doing > > any rework like that soon I'm afraid. > > > > I realize xend doesn't get much attention anymore, > but it's still the only way to use some features, xend is deprecated. This ultimately means that xend will go away. If you are dependent on these features then you need put effort into ensuring that they become supported in libxl and xl. You should not assume that xend will be around forever nor that someone else will do this work for you before xend does go away. In other words people who need these features need to provide patches for them. (I suppose someone could also step up and offer to maintain xend properly, I'm not holding my breath for that). > like: > remus, block scripts AFAIK support for these in xl/libxl these are being worked on. > pvusb, pvscsi, I'm not aware of any effort to make these work with libxl. > So it's good to apply at least bugfix patches :) TO some extent that just gives people a false sense that they can sit on xend forever, which is not the case. People need to realise that xend _is_ going away and they need to start planning accordingly. > > -- Pasi > > > _______________________________________________ > Xen-devel mailing list > Xen-devel@lists.xensource.com > http://lists.xensource.com/xen-devel ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [libvirt] [Xen-devel] [BUG] insufficient quoting between " tap-ctl list " and xend/server/BlktapController.py 2011-12-01 19:51 ` Ian Campbell @ 2011-12-02 8:51 ` Philipp Hahn 2011-12-02 10:18 ` [BUG] insufficient quoting between "tap-ctl list" " Ian Campbell 0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Philipp Hahn @ 2011-12-02 8:51 UTC (permalink / raw) To: xen-devel; +Cc: libvir-list [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1484 bytes --] Hello, On Thursday 01 December 2011 19:31:04 Ian Jackson wrote: > Philipp Hahn writes ("Re: [Xen-devel] [BUG] insufficient quoting between "tap-ctl list" and xend/server/BlktapController.py"): > > As a quick work-around, the attached patch fixes the problem for me. That > > is, until tap-ctl changes it's output format. > > Thanks, I have applied it. Thanks for applying. On Thursday 01 December 2011 20:51:05 Ian Campbell wrote: > xend is deprecated. This ultimately means that xend will go away. If you > are dependent on these features then you need put effort into ensuring > that they become supported in libxl and xl. For our forthcomming release of UCS-3.0 we really wanted to switch from Xend to xl, but be had to switch back to using Xend, because libvirt still lacks some important features like migration; see <http://libvirt.org/hvsupport.html> for a comparison matrix. Back at the beginning of 2011 Univention sponsored Markus Gross to work on the xl-binding of libvirt, but after the end of his internship I have not seen that much work on the xl-binding in libvirt except from Jim Fehlig. Sincerely Philipp Hahn -- Philipp Hahn Open Source Software Engineer hahn@univention.de Univention GmbH Linux for Your Business fon: +49 421 22 232- 0 Mary-Somerville-Str.1 D-28359 Bremen fax: +49 421 22 232-99 http://www.univention.de/ [-- Attachment #1.2: This is a digitally signed message part. --] [-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 197 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 0 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [BUG] insufficient quoting between "tap-ctl list" and xend/server/BlktapController.py 2011-12-02 8:51 ` [libvirt] [Xen-devel] [BUG] insufficient quoting between " tap-ctl list " " Philipp Hahn @ 2011-12-02 10:18 ` Ian Campbell 2011-12-06 23:17 ` Jim Fehlig 0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Ian Campbell @ 2011-12-02 10:18 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Philipp Hahn, Jim Fehlig Cc: libvir-list@redhat.com, xen-devel@lists.xensource.com On Fri, 2011-12-02 at 08:51 +0000, Philipp Hahn wrote: > Hello, > > On Thursday 01 December 2011 19:31:04 Ian Jackson wrote: > > Philipp Hahn writes ("Re: [Xen-devel] [BUG] insufficient quoting > between "tap-ctl list" and xend/server/BlktapController.py"): > > > As a quick work-around, the attached patch fixes the problem for me. That > > > is, until tap-ctl changes it's output format. > > > > Thanks, I have applied it. > > Thanks for applying. > > On Thursday 01 December 2011 20:51:05 Ian Campbell wrote: > > xend is deprecated. This ultimately means that xend will go away. If you > > are dependent on these features then you need put effort into ensuring > > that they become supported in libxl and xl. > > For our forthcomming release of UCS-3.0 we really wanted to switch from Xend > to xl, but be had to switch back to using Xend, because libvirt still lacks > some important features like migration; see > <http://libvirt.org/hvsupport.html> for a comparison matrix. Back at the > beginning of 2011 Univention sponsored Markus Gross to work on the xl-binding > of libvirt, Thank you for putting your money where your mouth is here! > but after the end of his internship I have not seen that much > work on the xl-binding in libvirt except from Jim Fehlig. AFAIK Jim is the main man working on this stuff. Last I heard he was working on migration but I don't know the status, Jim? Ian. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [BUG] insufficient quoting between "tap-ctl list" and xend/server/BlktapController.py 2011-12-02 10:18 ` [BUG] insufficient quoting between "tap-ctl list" " Ian Campbell @ 2011-12-06 23:17 ` Jim Fehlig 0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Jim Fehlig @ 2011-12-06 23:17 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Ian Campbell Cc: libvir-list@redhat.com, xen-devel@lists.xensource.com, Philipp Hahn Ian Campbell wrote: > On Fri, 2011-12-02 at 08:51 +0000, Philipp Hahn wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> On Thursday 01 December 2011 19:31:04 Ian Jackson wrote: >> >>> Philipp Hahn writes ("Re: [Xen-devel] [BUG] insufficient quoting >>> >> between "tap-ctl list" and xend/server/BlktapController.py"): >> >>>> As a quick work-around, the attached patch fixes the problem for me. That >>>> is, until tap-ctl changes it's output format. >>>> >>> Thanks, I have applied it. >>> >> Thanks for applying. >> >> On Thursday 01 December 2011 20:51:05 Ian Campbell wrote: >> >>> xend is deprecated. This ultimately means that xend will go away. If you >>> are dependent on these features then you need put effort into ensuring >>> that they become supported in libxl and xl. >>> >> For our forthcomming release of UCS-3.0 we really wanted to switch from Xend >> to xl, but be had to switch back to using Xend, because libvirt still lacks >> some important features like migration; see >> <http://libvirt.org/hvsupport.html> for a comparison matrix. Back at the >> beginning of 2011 Univention sponsored Markus Gross to work on the xl-binding >> of libvirt, >> > > Thank you for putting your money where your mouth is here! > > >> but after the end of his internship I have not seen that much >> work on the xl-binding in libvirt except from Jim Fehlig. >> > > AFAIK Jim is the main man working on this stuff. Last I heard he was > working on migration but I don't know the status, Jim? > As you've probably noticed, I haven't had much time to devote to libxl and the libxl libvirt driver :-(. Migration, and some other important but missing features, are on my todo list, but not quite sure when I'll get back to this work. Regards, Jim ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [PATCHv2] insufficient quoting between "tap-ctl list" and xend/server/BlktapController.py 2011-12-01 18:31 ` Ian Jackson 2011-12-01 19:37 ` Pasi Kärkkäinen @ 2011-12-03 20:42 ` Philipp Hahn 2011-12-08 17:16 ` Ian Jackson 1 sibling, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Philipp Hahn @ 2011-12-03 20:42 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Ian Jackson; +Cc: xen-devel [-- Attachment #1.1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 920 bytes --] Hello Ian, On Thursday 01 December 2011 19:31:04 you wrote: > Philipp Hahn writes ("Re: [Xen-devel] [BUG] insufficient quoting between "tap-ctl list" and xend/server/BlktapController.py"): > > As a quick work-around, the attached patch fixes the problem for me. That > > is, until tap-ctl changes it's output format. > > Thanks, I have applied it. Argh, I submitted the wrong patch. The "line.split(None, 4)" needs to be a "3", because 3 splits needs to be done to get the 4 parts. 0004 is the correct full patch, 0005 is the inter-diff. Sorry for the mixup. Sincerely Philipp -- Philipp Hahn Open Source Software Engineer hahn@univention.de Univention GmbH Linux for Your Business fon: +49 421 22 232- 0 Mary-Somerville-Str.1 D-28359 Bremen fax: +49 421 22 232-99 http://www.univention.de/ [-- Attachment #1.1.2: 0004-tap-ctl.patch --] [-- Type: text/x-diff, Size: 2832 bytes --] Bug #18357: Fix tap-ctl parsing. Shutting down a domU with xen-4.1.2 doesn't terminate the corresponding blktap2 process, since one (other) VM uses a image file, which contains spaces in its file name. /var/log/xen/xend-debug.log has the following information: Unhandled exception in thread started by Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/xen/xend/server/BlktapController.py", line 199, in finishDeviceCleanup TapdiskController.destroy(path) File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/xen/xend/server/BlktapController.py", line 289, in destroy tapdisk = TapdiskController.fromDevice(device) File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/xen/xend/server/BlktapController.py", line 278, in fromDevice TapdiskController.list()) File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/xen/xend/server/BlktapController.py", line 256, in list key, value = pair.split('=') ValueError: need more than 1 value to unpack BlktapController calls "tap-ctl list", which outputs one line for each process. Each line contains key=value pairs without any quoting. # tap-ctl list | grep 'args=.*:.* ' pid=10145 minor=18 state=0 args=aio:/var/lib/libvirt/images/Xen Windows drivers (gplpv 308).iso (passing the output of tap-ctl through a pipe is important, since it switches to a different list-format when STDOUT is a tty.) BlktapController splits the output into lines using \n, then each line at each space, and finally each of these 'words' at the '=', which fails for the filename. Limit the number of splits as a fast work-around. --- a/tools/python/xen/xend/server/BlktapController.py +++ b/tools/python/xen/xend/server/BlktapController.py @@ -249,11 +249,12 @@ class TapdiskController(object): _list = TapdiskController.exc('list') if not _list: return [] - for line in _list.split('\n'): + for line in _list.splitlines(): tapdisk = TapdiskController.Tapdisk() - for pair in line.split(): - key, value = pair.split('=') + # Since 'tap-ctl list' does not escape blanks in the path, hard-code the current format using 4 pairs to prevent splitting the path + for pair in line.split(None, 3): + key, value = pair.split('=', 1) if key == 'pid': tapdisk.pid = value elif key == 'minor': @@ -264,7 +265,7 @@ class TapdiskController(object): elif key == 'state': tapdisk.state = value elif key == 'args' and value.find(':') != -1: - tapdisk.dtype, tapdisk.image = value.split(':') + tapdisk.dtype, tapdisk.image = value.split(':', 1) tapdisks.append(tapdisk) [-- Attachment #1.1.3: 0005-tap-ctl.patch --] [-- Type: text/x-diff, Size: 785 bytes --] Bug #18357: Fix tap-ctl parsing. The previous patch was still wrong: Pythons split() expects the number of splits, not the number of results. Do 3 splits to get pid, minor, state and args. --- a/tools/python/xen/xend/server/BlktapController.py +++ b/tools/python/xen/xend/server/BlktapController.py @@ -252,7 +252,7 @@ class TapdiskController(object): tapdisk = TapdiskController.Tapdisk() # Since 'tap-ctl list' does not escape blanks in the path, hard-code the current format using 4 pairs to prevent splitting the path - for pair in line.split(None, 4): + for pair in line.split(None, 3): key, value = pair.split('=', 1) if key == 'pid': tapdisk.pid = value [-- Attachment #1.2: This is a digitally signed message part. --] [-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 197 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 138 bytes --] _______________________________________________ Xen-devel mailing list Xen-devel@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-devel ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [PATCHv2] insufficient quoting between "tap-ctl list" and xend/server/BlktapController.py 2011-12-03 20:42 ` [PATCHv2] " Philipp Hahn @ 2011-12-08 17:16 ` Ian Jackson 0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Ian Jackson @ 2011-12-08 17:16 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Philipp Hahn; +Cc: xen-devel@lists.xensource.com Philipp Hahn writes ("Re: [PATCHv2] insufficient quoting between "tap-ctl list" and xend/server/BlktapController.py"): > Argh, I submitted the wrong patch. The "line.split(None, 4)" needs to be > a "3", because 3 splits needs to be done to get the 4 parts. Oops. Thanks for submitting the fix. I have applied it. But please remember next time to include a proper signed-off-by. In this case, since it was only a single-character change, I applied it anyway (the interdiff, since the previous version went in already). Also this kind of thing shows how little review xend patches get nowadays. Users of xend are well-advised to switch away before they trip over some rotting code... Ian. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2011-12-08 17:16 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 10+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2011-11-25 16:21 [BUG] insufficient quoting between "tap-ctl list" and xend/server/BlktapController.py Philipp Hahn 2011-11-25 19:57 ` Philipp Hahn 2011-12-01 18:31 ` Ian Jackson 2011-12-01 19:37 ` Pasi Kärkkäinen 2011-12-01 19:51 ` Ian Campbell 2011-12-02 8:51 ` [libvirt] [Xen-devel] [BUG] insufficient quoting between " tap-ctl list " " Philipp Hahn 2011-12-02 10:18 ` [BUG] insufficient quoting between "tap-ctl list" " Ian Campbell 2011-12-06 23:17 ` Jim Fehlig 2011-12-03 20:42 ` [PATCHv2] " Philipp Hahn 2011-12-08 17:16 ` Ian Jackson
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