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From: Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org>
To: Christoph Lameter <cl@linux.com>
Cc: Peter Zijlstra <a.p.zijlstra@chello.nl>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org,
	Paul Turner <pjt@google.com>,
	Lee Schermerhorn <Lee.Schermerhorn@hp.com>,
	Rik van Riel <riel@redhat.com>, Mel Gorman <mgorman@suse.de>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Andrea Arcangeli <aarcange@redhat.com>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 0/8] Announcement: Enhanced NUMA scheduling with adaptive affinity
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 16:59:43 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20121116155943.GB4271@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <0000013b04769cf2-b57b16c0-5af0-4e7e-a736-e0aa2d4e4e78-000000@email.amazonses.com>


* Christoph Lameter <cl@linux.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 13 Nov 2012, Ingo Molnar wrote:
> 
> > > the pages over both nodes in use.
> >
> > I'd not go as far as to claim that to be a general rule: the 
> > correct placement depends on the system and workload 
> > specifics: how much memory is on each node, how many tasks 
> > run on each node, and whether the access patterns and 
> > working set of the tasks is symmetric amongst each other - 
> > which is not a given at all.
> >
> > Say consider a database server that executes small and large 
> > queries over a large, memory-shared database, and has worker 
> > tasks to clients, to serve each query. Depending on the 
> > nature of the queries, interleaving can easily be the wrong 
> > thing to do.
> 
> The interleaving of memory areas that have an equal amount of 
> shared accesses from multiple nodes is essential to limit the 
> traffic on the interconnect and get top performance.

That is true only if the load is symmetric.

> I guess through that in a non HPC environment where you are 
> not interested in one specific load running at top speed 
> varying contention on the interconnect and memory busses are 
> acceptable. But this means that HPC loads cannot be auto 
> tuned.

I'm not against improving these workloads (at all) - I just 
pointed out that interleaving isn't necessarily the best 
placement strategy for 'large' workloads.

Thanks,

	Ingo

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WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org>
To: Christoph Lameter <cl@linux.com>
Cc: Peter Zijlstra <a.p.zijlstra@chello.nl>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org,
	Paul Turner <pjt@google.com>,
	Lee Schermerhorn <Lee.Schermerhorn@hp.com>,
	Rik van Riel <riel@redhat.com>, Mel Gorman <mgorman@suse.de>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Andrea Arcangeli <aarcange@redhat.com>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 0/8] Announcement: Enhanced NUMA scheduling with adaptive affinity
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 16:59:43 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20121116155943.GB4271@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <0000013b04769cf2-b57b16c0-5af0-4e7e-a736-e0aa2d4e4e78-000000@email.amazonses.com>


* Christoph Lameter <cl@linux.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 13 Nov 2012, Ingo Molnar wrote:
> 
> > > the pages over both nodes in use.
> >
> > I'd not go as far as to claim that to be a general rule: the 
> > correct placement depends on the system and workload 
> > specifics: how much memory is on each node, how many tasks 
> > run on each node, and whether the access patterns and 
> > working set of the tasks is symmetric amongst each other - 
> > which is not a given at all.
> >
> > Say consider a database server that executes small and large 
> > queries over a large, memory-shared database, and has worker 
> > tasks to clients, to serve each query. Depending on the 
> > nature of the queries, interleaving can easily be the wrong 
> > thing to do.
> 
> The interleaving of memory areas that have an equal amount of 
> shared accesses from multiple nodes is essential to limit the 
> traffic on the interconnect and get top performance.

That is true only if the load is symmetric.

> I guess through that in a non HPC environment where you are 
> not interested in one specific load running at top speed 
> varying contention on the interconnect and memory busses are 
> acceptable. But this means that HPC loads cannot be auto 
> tuned.

I'm not against improving these workloads (at all) - I just 
pointed out that interleaving isn't necessarily the best 
placement strategy for 'large' workloads.

Thanks,

	Ingo

  reply	other threads:[~2012-11-16 15:59 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 74+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2012-11-12 16:04 [PATCH 0/8] Announcement: Enhanced NUMA scheduling with adaptive affinity Peter Zijlstra
2012-11-12 16:04 ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-11-12 16:04 ` [PATCH 1/8] sched, numa, mm: Introduce sched_feat_numa() Peter Zijlstra
2012-11-12 16:04   ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-11-12 16:04 ` [PATCH 2/8] sched, numa, mm: Implement THP migration Peter Zijlstra
2012-11-12 16:04   ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-11-12 16:04 ` [PATCH 3/8] sched, numa, mm: Add credits for NUMA placement Peter Zijlstra
2012-11-12 16:04   ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-11-12 16:04 ` [PATCH 4/8] sched, numa, mm: Add last_cpu to page flags Peter Zijlstra
2012-11-12 16:04   ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-11-13 11:55   ` Ingo Molnar
2012-11-13 11:55     ` Ingo Molnar
2012-11-13 16:09   ` Rik van Riel
2012-11-13 16:09     ` Rik van Riel
2012-11-12 16:04 ` [PATCH 5/8] sched, numa, mm: Add adaptive NUMA affinity support Peter Zijlstra
2012-11-12 16:04   ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-11-13  0:02   ` Christoph Lameter
2012-11-13  0:02     ` Christoph Lameter
2012-11-13  8:19     ` Ingo Molnar
2012-11-13  8:19       ` Ingo Molnar
2012-11-13 22:57   ` Rik van Riel
2012-11-13 22:57     ` Rik van Riel
2012-11-16 18:06   ` Rik van Riel
2012-11-16 18:06     ` Rik van Riel
2012-11-16 18:14     ` Ingo Molnar
2012-11-16 18:14       ` Ingo Molnar
2012-11-16 18:23       ` Rik van Riel
2012-11-16 18:23         ` Rik van Riel
2012-11-29 19:34   ` Andi Kleen
2012-11-29 19:34     ` Andi Kleen
2012-11-12 16:04 ` [PATCH 6/8] sched, numa, mm: Implement constant, per task Working Set Sampling (WSS) rate Peter Zijlstra
2012-11-12 16:04   ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-11-12 16:04 ` [PATCH 7/8] sched, numa, mm: Count WS scanning against present PTEs, not virtual memory ranges Peter Zijlstra
2012-11-12 16:04   ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-11-12 16:04 ` [PATCH 8/8] sched, numa, mm: Implement slow start for working set sampling Peter Zijlstra
2012-11-12 16:04   ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-11-12 18:48 ` Benchmark results: "Enhanced NUMA scheduling with adaptive affinity" Ingo Molnar
2012-11-12 18:48   ` Ingo Molnar
2012-11-15 10:08   ` Mel Gorman
2012-11-15 10:08     ` Mel Gorman
2012-11-15 18:52     ` Rik van Riel
2012-11-15 18:52       ` Rik van Riel
2012-11-15 21:27       ` Mel Gorman
2012-11-15 21:27         ` Mel Gorman
2012-11-15 20:32     ` Linus Torvalds
2012-11-15 20:32       ` Linus Torvalds
2012-11-15 22:04       ` Rik van Riel
2012-11-15 22:04         ` Rik van Riel
2012-11-16 14:14         ` Mel Gorman
2012-11-16 14:14           ` Mel Gorman
2012-11-16 19:50           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-11-16 19:50             ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-11-16 20:05             ` Mel Gorman
2012-11-16 20:05               ` Mel Gorman
2012-11-16 16:16       ` Ingo Molnar
2012-11-16 16:16         ` Ingo Molnar
2012-11-16 15:56     ` Ingo Molnar
2012-11-16 15:56       ` Ingo Molnar
2012-11-16 16:25       ` Mel Gorman
2012-11-16 16:25         ` Mel Gorman
2012-11-16 17:49         ` Ingo Molnar
2012-11-16 17:49           ` Ingo Molnar
2012-11-16 19:04           ` Mel Gorman
2012-11-16 19:04             ` Mel Gorman
2012-11-12 23:43 ` [PATCH 0/8] Announcement: Enhanced NUMA scheduling with adaptive affinity Christoph Lameter
2012-11-12 23:43   ` Christoph Lameter
2012-11-13  7:24   ` Ingo Molnar
2012-11-13  7:24     ` Ingo Molnar
2012-11-15 14:26     ` Christoph Lameter
2012-11-15 14:26       ` Christoph Lameter
2012-11-16 15:59       ` Ingo Molnar [this message]
2012-11-16 15:59         ` Ingo Molnar
2012-11-16 20:57         ` Christoph Lameter
2012-11-16 20:57           ` Christoph Lameter

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