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From: richardcochran@gmail.com (Richard Cochran)
To: linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org
Subject: [Ksummit-2013-discuss] DT bindings as ABI [was: Do we have people interested in device tree janitoring / cleanup?]
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2013 20:17:09 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20130727181709.GC4813@netboy> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1307271056060.13167@nftneq.ynat.uz>

On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 10:57:09AM -0700, David Lang wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Jul 2013, Richard Cochran wrote:
> 
> >On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 11:40:18AM +0100, Mark Brown wrote:
> >>On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 10:48:26AM +0200, Richard Cochran wrote:
> >>
> >>>[ I disagree about the "more thought" part. The current discussion,
> >>>  coming years too late after the introduction of DT to ARM Linux, is
> >>>  contrary evidence enough. ]
> >>
> >>We did have exactly the same discussion when the DT transition was
> >>started - this isn't something that people only just realised might be
> >>an issue.  There was a deliberate decision to focus on getting the
> >>technology deployed to the point where it could be used as a straight
> >>replacement for board files and accept that sometimes the results won't
> >>be perfect and that we may need to rework as a result.
> >
> >Can you tell a bit more about this decision? When was it made? Who
> >made it? How was it made public?
> 
> I remember seeing some of the discussion on linux-kernel at the
> time. I believe there was also a LWN article.

I must have missed it on lkml, although I do try to keep an eye on
this topic. I did find

   http://lwn.net/Articles/414016/
   http://lwn.net/Articles/426606/

but no word about unstable bindings. Maybe this was decided by the
modern method of secret committee?

Thanks,
Richard

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Richard Cochran <richardcochran@gmail.com>
To: David Lang <david@lang.hm>
Cc: Mark Brown <broonie@kernel.org>,
	Jason Gunthorpe <jgunthorpe@obsidianresearch.com>,
	Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com>,
	"devicetree@vger.kernel.org" <devicetree@vger.kernel.org>,
	"ksummit-2013-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org" 
	<ksummit-2013-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org>,
	Russell King - ARM Linux <linux@arm.linux.org.uk>,
	Pawel Moll <Pawel.Moll@arm.com>,
	Stephen Warren <swarren@wwwdotorg.org>,
	Domenico Andreoli <cavokz@gmail.com>,
	"rob.herring@calxeda.com" <rob.herring@calxeda.com>,
	"linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Dave P Martin <Dave.Martin@arm.com>,
	"linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org" 
	<linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org>,
	Ian Campbell <ian.campbell@citrix.com>
Subject: Re: [Ksummit-2013-discuss] DT bindings as ABI [was: Do we have people interested in device tree janitoring / cleanup?]
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2013 20:17:09 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20130727181709.GC4813@netboy> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1307271056060.13167@nftneq.ynat.uz>

On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 10:57:09AM -0700, David Lang wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Jul 2013, Richard Cochran wrote:
> 
> >On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 11:40:18AM +0100, Mark Brown wrote:
> >>On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 10:48:26AM +0200, Richard Cochran wrote:
> >>
> >>>[ I disagree about the "more thought" part. The current discussion,
> >>>  coming years too late after the introduction of DT to ARM Linux, is
> >>>  contrary evidence enough. ]
> >>
> >>We did have exactly the same discussion when the DT transition was
> >>started - this isn't something that people only just realised might be
> >>an issue.  There was a deliberate decision to focus on getting the
> >>technology deployed to the point where it could be used as a straight
> >>replacement for board files and accept that sometimes the results won't
> >>be perfect and that we may need to rework as a result.
> >
> >Can you tell a bit more about this decision? When was it made? Who
> >made it? How was it made public?
> 
> I remember seeing some of the discussion on linux-kernel at the
> time. I believe there was also a LWN article.

I must have missed it on lkml, although I do try to keep an eye on
this topic. I did find

   http://lwn.net/Articles/414016/
   http://lwn.net/Articles/426606/

but no word about unstable bindings. Maybe this was decided by the
modern method of secret committee?

Thanks,
Richard

  reply	other threads:[~2013-07-27 18:17 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 284+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2013-07-25 16:09 DT bindings as ABI [was: Do we have people interested in device tree janitoring / cleanup?] Olof Johansson
2013-07-25 16:09 ` Olof Johansson
2013-07-25 17:57 ` Mark Rutland
2013-07-25 17:57   ` Mark Rutland
2013-07-25 18:05   ` Stephen Warren
2013-07-25 18:05     ` Stephen Warren
2013-07-25 18:25     ` Olof Johansson
2013-07-25 18:25       ` Olof Johansson
2013-07-25 18:50       ` Stephen Warren
2013-07-25 18:50         ` Stephen Warren
2013-07-25 19:30       ` [Ksummit-2013-discuss] " Mark Brown
2013-07-25 19:30         ` Mark Brown
2013-07-25 18:29     ` Mark Rutland
2013-07-25 18:29       ` Mark Rutland
2013-07-25 18:48       ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-25 18:48         ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-25 18:53         ` Stephen Warren
2013-07-25 18:53           ` Stephen Warren
2013-07-25 21:41           ` Domenico Andreoli
2013-07-25 21:41             ` Domenico Andreoli
2013-07-26  4:43           ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-26  4:43             ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-25 21:37         ` Jason Gunthorpe
2013-07-25 21:37           ` Jason Gunthorpe
2013-07-26  4:54           ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-26  4:54             ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-26 13:42             ` Rob Herring
2013-07-26 13:42               ` Rob Herring
2013-07-26 17:15             ` Jason Gunthorpe
2013-07-26 17:15               ` Jason Gunthorpe
2013-07-27  8:48               ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-27  8:48                 ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-27 10:40                 ` [Ksummit-2013-discuss] " Mark Brown
2013-07-27 10:40                   ` Mark Brown
2013-07-27 17:37                   ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-27 17:37                     ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-27 17:57                     ` David Lang
2013-07-27 17:57                       ` David Lang
2013-07-27 18:17                       ` Richard Cochran [this message]
2013-07-27 18:17                         ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-28 11:27                     ` Mark Brown
2013-07-28 11:27                       ` Mark Brown
2013-07-29 17:54                 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2013-07-29 17:54                   ` Jason Gunthorpe
2013-07-29 18:16                   ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2013-07-29 18:16                     ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2013-07-29 18:40                     ` Jason Gunthorpe
2013-07-29 18:40                       ` Jason Gunthorpe
2013-07-27  8:53               ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-27  8:53                 ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-27 10:20                 ` Tomasz Figa
2013-07-27 10:20                   ` Tomasz Figa
2013-07-27 11:36                 ` [Ksummit-2013-discuss] " Mark Brown
2013-07-27 11:36                   ` Mark Brown
2013-07-27 18:07                   ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-27 18:07                     ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-28 12:10                     ` Mark Brown
2013-07-28 12:10                       ` Mark Brown
2013-07-26  8:01           ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-26  8:01             ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-26  9:42             ` [Ksummit-2013-discuss] " David Woodhouse
2013-07-26  9:42               ` David Woodhouse
2013-07-26 13:09               ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-26 13:09                 ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-26 13:14                 ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2013-07-26 13:14                   ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2013-07-27 15:28                   ` David Gibson
2013-07-27 15:28                     ` David Gibson
2013-07-26 13:27                 ` Jason Cooper
2013-07-26 13:27                   ` Jason Cooper
2013-07-26 13:38                   ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2013-07-26 13:38                     ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2013-07-26 13:45                     ` Jason Cooper
2013-07-26 13:45                       ` Jason Cooper
2013-07-26 13:50                       ` David Woodhouse
2013-07-26 13:50                         ` David Woodhouse
2013-07-26 13:59                         ` Jason Cooper
2013-07-26 13:59                           ` Jason Cooper
2013-07-26 13:41                   ` David Woodhouse
2013-07-26 13:41                     ` David Woodhouse
2013-07-26 13:47                     ` Jason Cooper
2013-07-26 13:47                       ` Jason Cooper
2013-07-26 14:14                     ` jonsmirl at gmail.com
2013-07-26 14:14                       ` jonsmirl
2013-07-26 14:16                       ` David Woodhouse
2013-07-26 14:16                         ` David Woodhouse
2013-07-26 14:21                       ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2013-07-26 14:21                         ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2013-07-26 14:39                         ` jonsmirl at gmail.com
2013-07-26 14:39                           ` jonsmirl
2013-07-26 14:40                         ` Mark Brown
2013-07-26 14:40                           ` Mark Brown
2013-07-29 15:32                           ` Matt Porter
2013-07-29 15:32                             ` Matt Porter
2013-07-27 15:19                         ` David Gibson
2013-07-27 15:19                           ` David Gibson
2013-07-27 19:37                         ` Grant Likely
2013-07-27 19:37                           ` Grant Likely
2013-07-27  9:16                       ` Ming Lei
2013-07-27  9:16                         ` Ming Lei
2013-07-26 14:10                 ` Mark Brown
2013-07-26 14:10                   ` Mark Brown
2013-07-26 15:49                   ` Olof Johansson
2013-07-26 15:49                     ` Olof Johansson
2013-07-26 16:36                     ` Rob Herring
2013-07-26 16:36                       ` Rob Herring
2013-07-27  4:57                       ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-27  4:57                         ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-27  5:04                     ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-27  5:04                       ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-27  9:51                       ` Tomasz Figa
2013-07-27  9:51                         ` Tomasz Figa
2013-07-27 10:24                         ` Arend van Spriel
2013-07-27 10:24                           ` Arend van Spriel
2013-07-27 10:34                           ` Arend van Spriel
2013-07-27 10:34                             ` Arend van Spriel
2013-07-27 11:09                             ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2013-07-27 11:09                               ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2013-07-27 10:36                           ` Tomasz Figa
2013-07-27 10:36                             ` Tomasz Figa
2013-07-27 10:59                             ` Arend van Spriel
2013-07-27 10:59                               ` Arend van Spriel
2013-07-27 19:45                               ` Grant Likely
2013-07-27 19:45                                 ` Grant Likely
2013-07-27 20:01                                 ` jonsmirl at gmail.com
2013-07-27 20:01                                   ` jonsmirl
2013-07-27 20:03                                   ` David Woodhouse
2013-07-27 20:03                                     ` David Woodhouse
2013-07-27 20:25                                   ` Grant Likely
2013-07-27 20:25                                     ` Grant Likely
2013-07-28  3:28                                     ` Grant Likely
2013-07-28  3:28                                       ` Grant Likely
2013-07-28  5:11                                       ` James Bottomley
2013-07-28  5:11                                         ` James Bottomley
2013-07-28  5:13                                         ` Grant Likely
2013-07-28  5:13                                           ` Grant Likely
2013-07-30  1:44                                         ` David Gibson
2013-07-30  1:44                                           ` David Gibson
2013-07-30  2:15                                           ` jonsmirl at gmail.com
2013-07-30  2:15                                             ` jonsmirl
2013-07-30  3:29                                             ` David Gibson
2013-07-30  3:29                                               ` David Gibson
2013-07-30  4:35                                               ` Grant Likely
2013-07-30  4:35                                                 ` Grant Likely
2013-07-30  8:39                                                 ` Maxime Ripard
2013-07-30  8:39                                                   ` Maxime Ripard
2013-07-30 16:30                                             ` Stephen Warren
2013-07-30 16:30                                               ` Stephen Warren
2013-07-30 17:27                                               ` John W. Linville
2013-07-30 17:27                                                 ` John W. Linville
2013-07-30 16:40                                           ` Stephen Warren
2013-07-30 16:40                                             ` Stephen Warren
2013-07-29  9:19                                   ` Arend van Spriel
2013-07-29  9:19                                     ` Arend van Spriel
2013-07-29 10:16                                     ` Arend van Spriel
2013-07-29 10:16                                       ` Arend van Spriel
2013-07-27 18:31                           ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-27 18:31                             ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-27 18:51                             ` Tomasz Figa
2013-07-27 18:51                               ` Tomasz Figa
2013-07-27 19:22                               ` jonsmirl at gmail.com
2013-07-27 19:22                                 ` jonsmirl
2013-07-28  8:56                               ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-28  8:56                                 ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-28  9:12                                 ` Tomasz Figa
2013-07-28  9:12                                   ` Tomasz Figa
2013-07-28 13:19                                   ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-28 13:19                                     ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-28 13:39                                     ` Tomasz Figa
2013-07-28 13:39                                       ` Tomasz Figa
2013-07-28 14:09                                       ` jonsmirl at gmail.com
2013-07-28 14:09                                         ` jonsmirl
2013-07-28 15:35                                         ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-28 15:35                                           ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-28 15:50                                           ` jonsmirl at gmail.com
2013-07-28 15:50                                             ` jonsmirl
2013-07-28 17:41                                             ` Mark Brown
2013-07-28 17:41                                               ` Mark Brown
2013-07-28 21:46                                           ` David Gibson
2013-07-28 21:46                                             ` David Gibson
2013-07-28 15:30                                       ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-28 15:30                                         ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-29  7:31                                     ` Maxime Ripard
2013-07-29  7:31                                       ` Maxime Ripard
2013-07-29 18:38                                       ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-29 18:38                                         ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-29 18:51                                         ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-29 18:51                                           ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-29 18:05                               ` Jason Gunthorpe
2013-07-29 18:05                                 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2013-07-29 18:27                                 ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2013-07-29 18:27                                   ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2013-07-29 22:20                                 ` David Gibson
2013-07-29 22:20                                   ` David Gibson
2013-07-29 23:14                                   ` Jason Gunthorpe
2013-07-29 23:14                                     ` Jason Gunthorpe
2013-07-29 23:49                                     ` David Gibson
2013-07-29 23:49                                       ` David Gibson
2013-07-31 10:37                               ` Maxime Bizon
2013-07-31 10:37                                 ` Maxime Bizon
2013-07-31 10:59                                 ` Tomasz Figa
2013-07-31 10:59                                   ` Tomasz Figa
2013-07-31 15:07                                   ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-31 15:07                                     ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-31 15:23                                     ` Tomasz Figa
2013-07-31 15:23                                       ` Tomasz Figa
2013-07-31 19:12                                       ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-31 19:12                                         ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-31 19:29                                         ` Tomasz Figa
2013-07-31 19:29                                           ` Tomasz Figa
2013-07-31 20:00                                           ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-31 20:00                                             ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-31 20:14                                             ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2013-07-31 20:14                                               ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2013-07-31 20:37                                               ` jonsmirl at gmail.com
2013-07-31 20:37                                                 ` jonsmirl
2013-07-31 20:48                                                 ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2013-07-31 20:48                                                   ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2013-07-31 21:26                                                   ` jonsmirl at gmail.com
2013-07-31 21:26                                                     ` jonsmirl
2013-08-01  9:57                                                     ` Arend van Spriel
2013-08-01  9:57                                                       ` Arend van Spriel
2013-08-01 10:09                                                       ` Mark Brown
2013-08-01 10:09                                                         ` Mark Brown
2013-08-01 10:18                                                     ` David Woodhouse
2013-08-01 10:18                                                       ` David Woodhouse
2013-08-01 13:34                                                       ` jonsmirl at gmail.com
2013-08-01 13:34                                                         ` jonsmirl
2013-08-01 13:43                                                         ` jonsmirl at gmail.com
2013-08-01 13:43                                                           ` jonsmirl
2013-08-01 13:48                                                       ` Rob Herring
2013-08-01 13:48                                                         ` Rob Herring
2013-08-02  3:50                                                     ` David Gibson
2013-08-02  3:50                                                       ` David Gibson
2013-08-13 23:32                                                       ` H. Peter Anvin
2013-08-13 23:32                                                         ` H. Peter Anvin
2013-08-14  1:49                                                         ` Guenter Roeck
2013-08-14  1:49                                                           ` Guenter Roeck
2013-08-14 14:46                                                           ` H. Peter Anvin
2013-08-14 14:46                                                             ` H. Peter Anvin
2013-08-02  8:49                                               ` Tony Lindgren
2013-08-02  8:49                                                 ` Tony Lindgren
2013-07-29 15:45                     ` Matt Porter
2013-07-29 15:45                       ` Matt Porter
2013-07-31 12:58   ` Ian Campbell
2013-07-31 12:58     ` Ian Campbell
2013-07-25 17:59 ` Stephen Warren
2013-07-25 17:59   ` Stephen Warren
2013-07-25 19:11 ` Rob Herring
2013-07-25 19:11   ` Rob Herring
2013-07-25 19:31   ` Jason Cooper
2013-07-25 19:31     ` Jason Cooper
2013-07-25 20:04     ` [Ksummit-2013-discuss] " Mark Brown
2013-07-25 20:04       ` Mark Brown
2013-07-25 20:08       ` Jason Cooper
2013-07-25 20:08         ` Jason Cooper
2013-07-25 20:16     ` Rob Herring
2013-07-25 20:16       ` Rob Herring
2013-07-25 20:32       ` Jason Cooper
2013-07-25 20:32         ` Jason Cooper
2013-07-25 21:53         ` [Ksummit-2013-discuss] " Ben Hutchings
2013-07-25 21:53           ` Ben Hutchings
2013-07-26  0:36           ` Stephen Warren
2013-07-26  0:36             ` Stephen Warren
2013-07-26 12:14           ` Jason Cooper
2013-07-26 12:14             ` Jason Cooper
2013-07-26  0:34       ` Stephen Warren
2013-07-26  0:34         ` Stephen Warren
2013-07-26 22:11         ` Rob Herring
2013-07-26 22:11           ` Rob Herring
2013-07-25 23:18     ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2013-07-25 23:18       ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2013-07-26  0:27       ` jonsmirl at gmail.com
2013-07-26  0:27         ` jonsmirl
2013-07-26 11:38         ` Jason Cooper
2013-07-26 11:38           ` Jason Cooper
2013-07-26 14:08           ` [Ksummit-2013-discuss] " David Woodhouse
2013-07-26 14:08             ` David Woodhouse
2013-07-26 13:57       ` Mark Brown
2013-07-26 13:57         ` Mark Brown
2013-07-26 10:55   ` Mark Brown
2013-07-26 10:55     ` Mark Brown
2013-07-28  4:39 ` Grant Likely
2013-07-28  4:39   ` Grant Likely

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