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From: Matthew Garrett <mjg59-1xO5oi07KQx4cg9Nei1l7Q@public.gmane.org>
To: David Woodhouse <dwmw2-wEGCiKHe2LqWVfeAwA7xHQ@public.gmane.org>
Cc: James Bottomley
	<James.Bottomley-d9PhHud1JfjCXq6kfMZ53/egYHeGw8Jk@public.gmane.org>,
	"John W. Linville"
	<linville-2XuSBdqkA4R54TAoqtyWWQ@public.gmane.org>,
	linux-kernel-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org,
	linux-efi-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: UEFI Plugfest 2013 -- New Orleans
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 22:30:05 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20130819213005.GA30211@srcf.ucam.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1376946411.5087.2.camel-Fexsq3y4057IgHVZqg5X0TlWvGAXklZc@public.gmane.org>

On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 10:06:51PM +0100, David Woodhouse wrote:

> You effectively seem to be suggesting that nothing will ever get better
> on the UEFI side, and the only benefit of the plugfest is that we get to
> see the latest brokenness and try to come up with a workaround for it
> before the consumers are afflicted with it?

Pretty much. There's a decent chance that board vendors already have the 
broken code before we end up testing against it.

> That's a really pessimistic view, and I'd really like us to be a little
> more optimistic. Things can't be, or at least can't *stay*, that bad.
> Surely?

Most vendors don't care about testing against Linux, and we can't make 
them care. What they're more likely to test against is the SCT, and 
extending that to cover a wider range of test cases (such as exhausting 
variable space) is much more likely to result in things being caught 
before anything is shipped - but even then, board vendors are going to 
take IBV code, perform "value add", never run a test suite and just make 
sure it boots Windows.

-- 
Matthew Garrett | mjg59-1xO5oi07KQx4cg9Nei1l7Q@public.gmane.org

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Matthew Garrett <mjg59@srcf.ucam.org>
To: David Woodhouse <dwmw2@infradead.org>
Cc: James Bottomley <James.Bottomley@HansenPartnership.com>,
	"John W. Linville" <linville@tuxdriver.com>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-efi@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: UEFI Plugfest 2013 -- New Orleans
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 22:30:05 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20130819213005.GA30211@srcf.ucam.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1376946411.5087.2.camel@shinybook.infradead.org>

On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 10:06:51PM +0100, David Woodhouse wrote:

> You effectively seem to be suggesting that nothing will ever get better
> on the UEFI side, and the only benefit of the plugfest is that we get to
> see the latest brokenness and try to come up with a workaround for it
> before the consumers are afflicted with it?

Pretty much. There's a decent chance that board vendors already have the 
broken code before we end up testing against it.

> That's a really pessimistic view, and I'd really like us to be a little
> more optimistic. Things can't be, or at least can't *stay*, that bad.
> Surely?

Most vendors don't care about testing against Linux, and we can't make 
them care. What they're more likely to test against is the SCT, and 
extending that to cover a wider range of test cases (such as exhausting 
variable space) is much more likely to result in things being caught 
before anything is shipped - but even then, board vendors are going to 
take IBV code, perform "value add", never run a test suite and just make 
sure it boots Windows.

-- 
Matthew Garrett | mjg59@srcf.ucam.org

  parent reply	other threads:[~2013-08-19 21:30 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 34+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2013-08-16 15:20 UEFI Plugfest 2013 -- New Orleans John W. Linville
2013-08-16 15:20 ` John W. Linville
     [not found] ` <20130816152030.GL2133-2XuSBdqkA4R54TAoqtyWWQ@public.gmane.org>
2013-08-17  0:44   ` James Bottomley
2013-08-17  0:44     ` James Bottomley
2013-08-19  8:25 ` David Woodhouse
     [not found]   ` <1376900735.2322.26.camel-Fexsq3y4057IgHVZqg5X0TlWvGAXklZc@public.gmane.org>
2013-08-19 12:55     ` Matthew Garrett
2013-08-19 12:55       ` Matthew Garrett
     [not found]       ` <20130819125507.GA19093-1xO5oi07KQx4cg9Nei1l7Q@public.gmane.org>
2013-08-19 15:22         ` James Bottomley
2013-08-19 15:22           ` James Bottomley
2013-08-19 16:00           ` Matthew Garrett
     [not found]             ` <20130819160018.GA22532-1xO5oi07KQx4cg9Nei1l7Q@public.gmane.org>
2013-08-19 17:02               ` James Bottomley
2013-08-19 17:02                 ` James Bottomley
     [not found]                 ` <1376931775.2069.46.camel-sFMDBYUN5F8GjUHQrlYNx2Wm91YjaHnnhRte9Li2A+AAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2013-08-19 17:21                   ` Matthew Garrett
2013-08-19 17:21                     ` Matthew Garrett
2013-08-19 17:38                     ` James Bottomley
     [not found]                       ` <1376933926.2069.52.camel-sFMDBYUN5F8GjUHQrlYNx2Wm91YjaHnnhRte9Li2A+AAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2013-08-19 17:47                         ` Matthew Garrett
2013-08-19 17:47                           ` Matthew Garrett
2013-08-19 20:09                         ` David Woodhouse
2013-08-19 20:09                           ` David Woodhouse
     [not found]                           ` <1376942994.2322.39.camel-Fexsq3y4057IgHVZqg5X0TlWvGAXklZc@public.gmane.org>
2013-08-19 20:19                             ` Matthew Garrett
2013-08-19 20:19                               ` Matthew Garrett
     [not found]                               ` <20130819201952.GA28740-1xO5oi07KQx4cg9Nei1l7Q@public.gmane.org>
2013-08-19 20:21                                 ` David Woodhouse
2013-08-19 20:21                                   ` David Woodhouse
     [not found]                                   ` <1376943671.2322.40.camel-Fexsq3y4057IgHVZqg5X0TlWvGAXklZc@public.gmane.org>
2013-08-19 20:39                                     ` Matthew Garrett
2013-08-19 20:39                                       ` Matthew Garrett
     [not found]                                       ` <20130819203937.GA28967-1xO5oi07KQx4cg9Nei1l7Q@public.gmane.org>
2013-08-19 21:06                                         ` David Woodhouse
2013-08-19 21:06                                           ` David Woodhouse
     [not found]                                           ` <1376946411.5087.2.camel-Fexsq3y4057IgHVZqg5X0TlWvGAXklZc@public.gmane.org>
2013-08-19 21:30                                             ` Matthew Garrett [this message]
2013-08-19 21:30                                               ` Matthew Garrett
2013-09-02  7:42                                       ` Alex Elsayed
2013-09-02  6:23                             ` Matt Fleming
2013-09-02  6:23                               ` Matt Fleming
2013-08-19 15:17     ` Borislav Petkov
2013-08-19 15:17       ` Borislav Petkov

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