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From: gregkh@linuxfoundation.org (Greg KH)
To: linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org
Subject: [RFC PATCH] Documentation: devicetree: add description for generic bus properties
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 09:43:08 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20131129174308.GC5635@kroah.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20131129131359.GH4634@e103592.cambridge.arm.com>

On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 01:13:59PM +0000, Dave Martin wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 09:57:03AM +0000, Russell King - ARM Linux wrote:
> > On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 10:37:14AM +0100, Thierry Reding wrote:
> > > There's a large gap between how fast new SoCs are supposed to tape out
> > > and the rate at which new code can be merged upstream. Perhaps some of
> > > that could be mitigated by putting more of the complexity into firmware
> > > and that's already happening to some degree for ARMv8. But I suspect
> > > there's a limit to what you can hide away in firmware while at the same
> > > time giving the kernel enough information to do the right thing.
> > 
> > One of the bigger issues which stands in the way of companies caring
> > about mainstream support is closed source IPs like VPUs and GPUs.
> > 
> > If you have one of those on your chip, even if the kernel side code
> > is already under the GPL, normally that code is not "mainline worthy".
> > Also, as the userspace code may not be open source, some people object
> > to having the open source part in the kernel.
> > 
> > So for customers to be able to get the performance out of the chip,
> > they have to stick with having non-mainline kernel.
> > 
> > At that point, why bother spending too much time getting mainline
> > support for the device.  It's never going to be fully functional in
> > mainline.  It doesn't make sense for these SoC companies.
> 
> Putting effort into upstream support for something that is only relevant
> to GPUs (or VPUs) does look less valuable for us right now, unless it
> encourages people to start posting more GPU/VPU code upstream, and we
> know there are other blockers there.

What are these "other blockers"?

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Greg KH <gregkh-hQyY1W1yCW8ekmWlsbkhG0B+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org>
To: Dave Martin <Dave.Martin-5wv7dgnIgG8@public.gmane.org>
Cc: Russell King - ARM Linux
	<linux-lFZ/pmaqli7XmaaqVzeoHQ@public.gmane.org>,
	Thierry Reding
	<thierry.reding-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>,
	Mark Rutland <Mark.Rutland-5wv7dgnIgG8@public.gmane.org>,
	devicetree-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org,
	Stephen Warren <swarren-3lzwWm7+Weoh9ZMKESR00Q@public.gmane.org>,
	Will Deacon <Will.Deacon-5wv7dgnIgG8@public.gmane.org>,
	Jason Gunthorpe
	<jgunthorpe-ePGOBjL8dl3ta4EC/59zMFaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org>,
	Grant Likely
	<grant.likely-QSEj5FYQhm4dnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org>,
	linux-arm-kernel-IAPFreCvJWM7uuMidbF8XUB+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org,
	Hiroshi Doyu <hdoyu-DDmLM1+adcrQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH] Documentation: devicetree: add description for generic bus properties
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 09:43:08 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20131129174308.GC5635@kroah.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20131129131359.GH4634-M5GwZQ6tE7x5pKCnmE3YQBJ8xKzm50AiAL8bYrjMMd8@public.gmane.org>

On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 01:13:59PM +0000, Dave Martin wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 09:57:03AM +0000, Russell King - ARM Linux wrote:
> > On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 10:37:14AM +0100, Thierry Reding wrote:
> > > There's a large gap between how fast new SoCs are supposed to tape out
> > > and the rate at which new code can be merged upstream. Perhaps some of
> > > that could be mitigated by putting more of the complexity into firmware
> > > and that's already happening to some degree for ARMv8. But I suspect
> > > there's a limit to what you can hide away in firmware while at the same
> > > time giving the kernel enough information to do the right thing.
> > 
> > One of the bigger issues which stands in the way of companies caring
> > about mainstream support is closed source IPs like VPUs and GPUs.
> > 
> > If you have one of those on your chip, even if the kernel side code
> > is already under the GPL, normally that code is not "mainline worthy".
> > Also, as the userspace code may not be open source, some people object
> > to having the open source part in the kernel.
> > 
> > So for customers to be able to get the performance out of the chip,
> > they have to stick with having non-mainline kernel.
> > 
> > At that point, why bother spending too much time getting mainline
> > support for the device.  It's never going to be fully functional in
> > mainline.  It doesn't make sense for these SoC companies.
> 
> Putting effort into upstream support for something that is only relevant
> to GPUs (or VPUs) does look less valuable for us right now, unless it
> encourages people to start posting more GPU/VPU code upstream, and we
> know there are other blockers there.

What are these "other blockers"?

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  parent reply	other threads:[~2013-11-29 17:43 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 73+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2013-11-27 17:28 [RFC PATCH] Documentation: devicetree: add description for generic bus properties Dave Martin
2013-11-27 17:28 ` Dave Martin
2013-11-27 23:06 ` Greg KH
2013-11-27 23:06   ` Greg KH
2013-11-28 10:28   ` Will Deacon
2013-11-28 10:28     ` Will Deacon
2013-11-28 17:33     ` Dave Martin
2013-11-28 17:33       ` Dave Martin
2013-11-28 19:13       ` Greg KH
2013-11-28 19:13         ` Greg KH
2013-11-28 19:39         ` Dave Martin
2013-11-28 19:39           ` Dave Martin
2013-11-28 21:25           ` Greg KH
2013-11-28 21:25             ` Greg KH
2013-11-29 11:44             ` Will Deacon
2013-11-29 11:44               ` Will Deacon
2013-11-29 17:37               ` Greg KH
2013-11-29 17:37                 ` Greg KH
2013-11-29 18:01                 ` Will Deacon
2013-11-29 18:01                   ` Will Deacon
2013-11-29 18:11                   ` Greg KH
2013-11-29 18:11                     ` Greg KH
2013-11-29 18:15                     ` Will Deacon
2013-11-29 18:15                       ` Will Deacon
2013-11-28 19:10     ` Greg KH
2013-11-28 19:10       ` Greg KH
2013-11-28 20:33 ` Thierry Reding
2013-11-28 20:33   ` Thierry Reding
2013-11-28 21:10   ` Jason Gunthorpe
2013-11-28 21:10     ` Jason Gunthorpe
2013-11-28 22:22     ` Thierry Reding
2013-11-28 22:22       ` Thierry Reding
2013-11-28 23:31       ` Jason Gunthorpe
2013-11-28 23:31         ` Jason Gunthorpe
2013-11-29  2:35         ` Greg KH
2013-11-29  2:35           ` Greg KH
2013-11-29  9:37           ` Thierry Reding
2013-11-29  9:37             ` Thierry Reding
2013-11-29  9:57             ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2013-11-29  9:57               ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2013-11-29 10:43               ` Thierry Reding
2013-11-29 10:43                 ` Thierry Reding
2013-11-29 13:13               ` Dave Martin
2013-11-29 13:13                 ` Dave Martin
2013-11-29 13:29                 ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2013-11-29 13:29                   ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2013-11-29 17:43                 ` Greg KH [this message]
2013-11-29 17:43                   ` Greg KH
2013-11-29 17:42             ` Greg KH
2013-11-29 17:42               ` Greg KH
2013-11-29 19:45               ` Thierry Reding
2013-11-29 19:45                 ` Thierry Reding
2013-12-04 18:43           ` Mark Brown
2013-12-04 18:43             ` Mark Brown
2013-12-04 19:03             ` Greg KH
2013-12-04 19:03               ` Greg KH
2013-12-04 20:27               ` Mark Brown
2013-12-04 20:27                 ` Mark Brown
2013-11-29  9:57         ` Thierry Reding
2013-11-29  9:57           ` Thierry Reding
2013-11-29 14:13           ` Dave Martin
2013-11-29 14:13             ` Dave Martin
2013-11-29 11:58         ` Dave Martin
2013-11-29 11:58           ` Dave Martin
2013-11-29 18:43           ` Jason Gunthorpe
2013-11-29 18:43             ` Jason Gunthorpe
2013-12-02 20:25             ` Dave Martin
2013-12-02 20:25               ` Dave Martin
2013-12-03  0:07               ` Jason Gunthorpe
2013-12-03  0:07                 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2013-12-03 11:45                 ` Dave Martin
2013-12-03 11:45                   ` Dave Martin
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2013-11-28 16:50 Dave Martin

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