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From: Omar Sandoval <osandov@osandov.com>
To: David Sterba <dsterba@suse.cz>
Cc: Alexander Viro <viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Chris Mason <clm@fb.com>, Josef Bacik <jbacik@fb.com>,
	Trond Myklebust <trond.myklebust@primarydata.com>,
	Christoph Hellwig <hch@infradead.org>,
	linux-btrfs@vger.kernel.org, linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-mm@kvack.org, linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH v3 0/7] btrfs: implement swap file support
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 12:15:09 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20141212201509.GB20971@mew> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20141212103213.GL27601@twin.jikos.cz>

On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 11:32:13AM +0100, David Sterba wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 09, 2014 at 05:45:41PM -0800, Omar Sandoval wrote:
> > After some discussion on the mailing list, I decided that for simplicity and
> > reliability, it's best to simply disallow COW files and files with shared
> > extents (like files with extents shared with a snapshot). From a user's
> > perspective, this means that a snapshotted subvolume cannot be used for a swap
> > file, but keeping the swap file in a separate subvolume that is never
> > snapshotted seems entirely reasonable to me.
> 
> Well, there are enough special cases how to do things on btrfs and I'd
> like to avoid introducing another one.
> 
> > An alternative suggestion was to
> > allow swap files to be snapshotted and to do an implied COW on swap file
> > activation, which I was ready to implement until I realized that we can't permit
> > snapshotting a subvolume with an active swap file, so this creates a surprising
> > inconsistency for users (in my opinion).
> 
> I still don't see why it's not possible to do the snapshot with an
> active swapfile.
> 
Creating a snapshot of an active swapfile would create shared extents,
so the next time we have to swap out a page, we'd have to do a COW,
which we're already trying pretty hard to avoid. We could allow it, but
it might lead to some unreliable behavior and unhappy emails to the
mailing list. However, I do see your point about wanting to avoid
special cases, so I'd like to get some more input from others on this as
well.

> > As with before, this functionality is tenuously tested in a virtual machine with
> > some artificial workloads, but it "works for me". I'm pretty happy with the
> > results on my end, so please comment away.
> 
> The non-btrfs changes can go independently and do not have to wait until
> we resolve the swap vs snapshot problem.
> 
> I did a simple test and it crashed instantly, lockep complains:
> 
> memory: 2G
> swap file: 1G
> kernel: 3.17 + v3
> 
[snip]

That's my fault for not running with lockdep enabled. The problem here
is that swap-over-NFS is the only caller of nfs_direct_IO, so
nfs_direct_IO doesn't observe the normal direct_IO locking conventions
and neither does swap_writepage. I'll have to shuffle around some code
on the NFS side to fix that.

It looks like the non-btrfs parts of this might get a bit bigger, so
I'll look into getting that in separately.

Thanks!
-- 
Omar

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Omar Sandoval <osandov@osandov.com>
To: David Sterba <dsterba@suse.cz>
Cc: Alexander Viro <viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Chris Mason <clm@fb.com>, Josef Bacik <jbacik@fb.com>,
	Trond Myklebust <trond.myklebust@primarydata.com>,
	Christoph Hellwig <hch@infradead.org>,
	linux-btrfs@vger.kernel.org, linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-mm@kvack.org, linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH v3 0/7] btrfs: implement swap file support
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 12:15:09 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20141212201509.GB20971@mew> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20141212103213.GL27601@twin.jikos.cz>

On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 11:32:13AM +0100, David Sterba wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 09, 2014 at 05:45:41PM -0800, Omar Sandoval wrote:
> > After some discussion on the mailing list, I decided that for simplicity and
> > reliability, it's best to simply disallow COW files and files with shared
> > extents (like files with extents shared with a snapshot). From a user's
> > perspective, this means that a snapshotted subvolume cannot be used for a swap
> > file, but keeping the swap file in a separate subvolume that is never
> > snapshotted seems entirely reasonable to me.
> 
> Well, there are enough special cases how to do things on btrfs and I'd
> like to avoid introducing another one.
> 
> > An alternative suggestion was to
> > allow swap files to be snapshotted and to do an implied COW on swap file
> > activation, which I was ready to implement until I realized that we can't permit
> > snapshotting a subvolume with an active swap file, so this creates a surprising
> > inconsistency for users (in my opinion).
> 
> I still don't see why it's not possible to do the snapshot with an
> active swapfile.
> 
Creating a snapshot of an active swapfile would create shared extents,
so the next time we have to swap out a page, we'd have to do a COW,
which we're already trying pretty hard to avoid. We could allow it, but
it might lead to some unreliable behavior and unhappy emails to the
mailing list. However, I do see your point about wanting to avoid
special cases, so I'd like to get some more input from others on this as
well.

> > As with before, this functionality is tenuously tested in a virtual machine with
> > some artificial workloads, but it "works for me". I'm pretty happy with the
> > results on my end, so please comment away.
> 
> The non-btrfs changes can go independently and do not have to wait until
> we resolve the swap vs snapshot problem.
> 
> I did a simple test and it crashed instantly, lockep complains:
> 
> memory: 2G
> swap file: 1G
> kernel: 3.17 + v3
> 
[snip]

That's my fault for not running with lockdep enabled. The problem here
is that swap-over-NFS is the only caller of nfs_direct_IO, so
nfs_direct_IO doesn't observe the normal direct_IO locking conventions
and neither does swap_writepage. I'll have to shuffle around some code
on the NFS side to fix that.

It looks like the non-btrfs parts of this might get a bit bigger, so
I'll look into getting that in separately.

Thanks!
-- 
Omar

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  reply	other threads:[~2014-12-12 20:15 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 27+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2014-12-10  1:45 [RFC PATCH v3 0/7] btrfs: implement swap file support Omar Sandoval
2014-12-10  1:45 ` Omar Sandoval
2014-12-10  1:45 ` [RFC PATCH v3 1/7] direct-io: don't dirty ITER_BVEC pages on read Omar Sandoval
2014-12-10  1:45   ` Omar Sandoval
2014-12-10  1:45 ` [RFC PATCH v3 2/7] nfs: don't dirty ITER_BVEC pages read through direct I/O Omar Sandoval
2014-12-10  1:45   ` Omar Sandoval
2014-12-10  1:45 ` [RFC PATCH v3 3/7] swap: use direct I/O for SWP_FILE swap_readpage Omar Sandoval
2014-12-10  1:45   ` Omar Sandoval
2014-12-10  1:45 ` [RFC PATCH v3 4/7] vfs: update swap_{,de}activate documentation Omar Sandoval
2014-12-10  1:45   ` Omar Sandoval
2014-12-10  1:45 ` [RFC PATCH v3 5/7] btrfs: prevent ioctls from interfering with a swap file Omar Sandoval
2014-12-10  1:45   ` Omar Sandoval
2014-12-10  1:45 ` [RFC PATCH v3 6/7] btrfs: add EXTENT_FLAG_SWAPFILE Omar Sandoval
2014-12-10  1:45   ` Omar Sandoval
2014-12-12 10:32   ` David Sterba
2014-12-12 10:32     ` David Sterba
2014-12-10  1:45 ` [RFC PATCH v3 7/7] btrfs: enable swap file support Omar Sandoval
2014-12-10  1:45   ` Omar Sandoval
2014-12-12 10:51   ` David Sterba
2014-12-12 10:51     ` David Sterba
2014-12-12 10:51     ` David Sterba
2014-12-12 20:00     ` Omar Sandoval
2014-12-12 20:00       ` Omar Sandoval
2014-12-12 10:32 ` [RFC PATCH v3 0/7] btrfs: implement " David Sterba
2014-12-12 10:32   ` David Sterba
2014-12-12 20:15   ` Omar Sandoval [this message]
2014-12-12 20:15     ` Omar Sandoval

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