* [Xenomai] rtdm/driver.h location - Xenomai 3.0 @ 2015-03-13 8:17 Michael Smith 2015-03-13 9:32 ` Philippe Gerum 0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Michael Smith @ 2015-03-13 8:17 UTC (permalink / raw) To: xenomai Hi. I am busy porting device drivers over to Xenomai 3.0. At the moment I'm having trouble figuring out the location of rtdm/driver.h. I would assume it should be installed under /usr/include/xenomai, because in my previous Xenomai 2.x build the rtdm/rtdm_driver.h was located there. I can see the file in the Xenomai source code but its not installed under /usr/include/xenomai after Xenomai 3.0 the build and install. I'm using cobalt with an x86_64 architecture. Am I missing something? Is there something that I should have setup in the configuration file with the install? I went back and had a look in the Linux kernel build setup under the Xenomai heading, but I could not see any obvious options that I missed. Thanks Michael Smith ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: [Xenomai] rtdm/driver.h location - Xenomai 3.0 2015-03-13 8:17 [Xenomai] rtdm/driver.h location - Xenomai 3.0 Michael Smith @ 2015-03-13 9:32 ` Philippe Gerum 2015-03-13 11:42 ` Michael Smith 0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Philippe Gerum @ 2015-03-13 9:32 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Michael Smith, xenomai On 03/13/2015 09:17 AM, Michael Smith wrote: > Hi. > I am busy porting device drivers over to Xenomai 3.0. > At the moment I'm having trouble figuring out the location of > rtdm/driver.h. > I would assume it should be installed under /usr/include/xenomai, because > in my previous Xenomai 2.x build the rtdm/rtdm_driver.h was located there. > I can see the file in the Xenomai source code but its not installed under > /usr/include/xenomai after Xenomai 3.0 the build and install. > I'm using cobalt with an x86_64 architecture. > > Am I missing something? Is there something that I should have setup in the > configuration file with the install? I went back and had a look in the > Linux kernel > build setup under the Xenomai heading, but I could not see any obvious > options that I missed. > In short, Xenomai 3 introduces a split between kernel and userland headers, with only a few of them shared in order to expose the ABI. So you need to build against a kernel prepared with the Xenomai sources, adding the proper extra CFLAGS to your kernel Makefile for building the module with the proper -I directives to find them. Everything under /usr/include/xenomai now belongs to userland exclusively, barring the ABI bits (uapi/). See http://www.xenomai.org/pipermail/xenomai/2015-March/033558.html -- Philippe. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: [Xenomai] rtdm/driver.h location - Xenomai 3.0 2015-03-13 9:32 ` Philippe Gerum @ 2015-03-13 11:42 ` Michael Smith 2015-03-13 16:39 ` Michael Smith 2015-03-16 9:59 ` Philippe Gerum 0 siblings, 2 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Michael Smith @ 2015-03-13 11:42 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Philippe Gerum; +Cc: xenomai On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 11:32 AM, Philippe Gerum <rpm@xenomai.org> wrote: > On 03/13/2015 09:17 AM, Michael Smith wrote: >> Hi. >> I am busy porting device drivers over to Xenomai 3.0. >> At the moment I'm having trouble figuring out the location of >> rtdm/driver.h. >> I would assume it should be installed under /usr/include/xenomai, because >> in my previous Xenomai 2.x build the rtdm/rtdm_driver.h was located there. >> I can see the file in the Xenomai source code but its not installed under >> /usr/include/xenomai after Xenomai 3.0 the build and install. >> I'm using cobalt with an x86_64 architecture. >> >> Am I missing something? Is there something that I should have setup in the >> configuration file with the install? I went back and had a look in the >> Linux kernel >> build setup under the Xenomai heading, but I could not see any obvious >> options that I missed. >> > > In short, Xenomai 3 introduces a split between kernel and userland > headers, with only a few of them shared in order to expose the ABI. So > you need to build against a kernel prepared with the Xenomai sources, > adding the proper extra CFLAGS to your kernel Makefile for building the > module with the proper -I directives to find them. > > Everything under /usr/include/xenomai now belongs to userland > exclusively, barring the ABI bits (uapi/). > > See http://www.xenomai.org/pipermail/xenomai/2015-March/033558.html > > -- > Philippe. I understand. Thanks Phillipe. Will implement it like that. If I can suggest, maybe to have a note of this somewhere in the documentation, or a RTDM example will clarify similar questions in the future. Regards Michael ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: [Xenomai] rtdm/driver.h location - Xenomai 3.0 2015-03-13 11:42 ` Michael Smith @ 2015-03-13 16:39 ` Michael Smith 2015-03-13 16:44 ` Gilles Chanteperdrix 2015-03-13 17:06 ` Helder Daniel 2015-03-16 9:59 ` Philippe Gerum 1 sibling, 2 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Michael Smith @ 2015-03-13 16:39 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Philippe Gerum; +Cc: xenomai On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 1:42 PM, Michael Smith <2michael.smith@gmail.com> wrote: > On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 11:32 AM, Philippe Gerum <rpm@xenomai.org> wrote: >> On 03/13/2015 09:17 AM, Michael Smith wrote: >>> Hi. >>> I am busy porting device drivers over to Xenomai 3.0. >>> At the moment I'm having trouble figuring out the location of >>> rtdm/driver.h. >>> I would assume it should be installed under /usr/include/xenomai, because >>> in my previous Xenomai 2.x build the rtdm/rtdm_driver.h was located there. >>> I can see the file in the Xenomai source code but its not installed under >>> /usr/include/xenomai after Xenomai 3.0 the build and install. >>> I'm using cobalt with an x86_64 architecture. >>> >>> Am I missing something? Is there something that I should have setup in the >>> configuration file with the install? I went back and had a look in the >>> Linux kernel >>> build setup under the Xenomai heading, but I could not see any obvious >>> options that I missed. >>> >> >> In short, Xenomai 3 introduces a split between kernel and userland >> headers, with only a few of them shared in order to expose the ABI. So >> you need to build against a kernel prepared with the Xenomai sources, >> adding the proper extra CFLAGS to your kernel Makefile for building the >> module with the proper -I directives to find them. >> >> Everything under /usr/include/xenomai now belongs to userland >> exclusively, barring the ABI bits (uapi/). >> >> See http://www.xenomai.org/pipermail/xenomai/2015-March/033558.html >> >> -- >> Philippe. > > I understand. > Thanks Phillipe. > Will implement it like that. > If I can suggest, maybe to have a note of this somewhere in the > documentation, or > a RTDM example will clarify similar questions in the future. > > Regards > Michael I am trying to do a out of tree compile for my RTDM driver. As I include the line $(shell xeno-config --kcflags)) in my make file, it expands to the line -Iarch/$(SRCARCH)/xenomai/include -Iinclude/xenomai. My problem is my compiler is not finding the $(SRCARCH) variable in the make process. I had a look and its not defined in my environmental variables either. I see the only place it is defined is in linux/Makefile on the top level of the Linux tree. But does this mean I can only compile a Xenomai driver as part of the full Linux tree? And do I need to re-make the whole kernel tree when I want to compile a custom Xenomai driver? Where would I need to place the RTDM source code if I want to compile it, linux/drivers perhaps? Or can I still do a out of tree compile for a Xenomai driver? Thanks Michael ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: [Xenomai] rtdm/driver.h location - Xenomai 3.0 2015-03-13 16:39 ` Michael Smith @ 2015-03-13 16:44 ` Gilles Chanteperdrix 2015-03-13 17:06 ` Helder Daniel 1 sibling, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Gilles Chanteperdrix @ 2015-03-13 16:44 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Michael Smith; +Cc: xenomai On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 06:39:03PM +0200, Michael Smith wrote: > On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 1:42 PM, Michael Smith <2michael.smith@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 11:32 AM, Philippe Gerum <rpm@xenomai.org> wrote: > >> On 03/13/2015 09:17 AM, Michael Smith wrote: > >>> Hi. > >>> I am busy porting device drivers over to Xenomai 3.0. > >>> At the moment I'm having trouble figuring out the location of > >>> rtdm/driver.h. > >>> I would assume it should be installed under /usr/include/xenomai, because > >>> in my previous Xenomai 2.x build the rtdm/rtdm_driver.h was located there. > >>> I can see the file in the Xenomai source code but its not installed under > >>> /usr/include/xenomai after Xenomai 3.0 the build and install. > >>> I'm using cobalt with an x86_64 architecture. > >>> > >>> Am I missing something? Is there something that I should have setup in the > >>> configuration file with the install? I went back and had a look in the > >>> Linux kernel > >>> build setup under the Xenomai heading, but I could not see any obvious > >>> options that I missed. > >>> > >> > >> In short, Xenomai 3 introduces a split between kernel and userland > >> headers, with only a few of them shared in order to expose the ABI. So > >> you need to build against a kernel prepared with the Xenomai sources, > >> adding the proper extra CFLAGS to your kernel Makefile for building the > >> module with the proper -I directives to find them. > >> > >> Everything under /usr/include/xenomai now belongs to userland > >> exclusively, barring the ABI bits (uapi/). > >> > >> See http://www.xenomai.org/pipermail/xenomai/2015-March/033558.html > >> > >> -- > >> Philippe. > > > > I understand. > > Thanks Phillipe. > > Will implement it like that. > > If I can suggest, maybe to have a note of this somewhere in the > > documentation, or > > a RTDM example will clarify similar questions in the future. > > > > Regards > > Michael > > I am trying to do a out of tree compile for my RTDM driver. > As I include the line $(shell xeno-config --kcflags)) in my make file, > it expands to the line -Iarch/$(SRCARCH)/xenomai/include -Iinclude/xenomai. > > My problem is my compiler is not finding the $(SRCARCH) variable in > the make process. > I had a look and its not defined in my environmental variables either. > I see the only place it is defined is in linux/Makefile on the top > level of the Linux tree. > > But does this mean I can only compile a Xenomai driver as part of the > full Linux tree? > And do I need to re-make the whole kernel tree when I want to compile a custom > Xenomai driver? > Where would I need to place the RTDM source code if I want to compile > it, linux/drivers perhaps? > Or can I still do a out of tree compile for a Xenomai driver? Compilation of kernel modules outside of the kernel sources is documented in Documentation/kbuild/modules.txt in kernel sources. Since RTDM modules are ordinary kernel modules, these instructions apply. -- Gilles. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: [Xenomai] rtdm/driver.h location - Xenomai 3.0 2015-03-13 16:39 ` Michael Smith 2015-03-13 16:44 ` Gilles Chanteperdrix @ 2015-03-13 17:06 ` Helder Daniel 2015-03-13 17:10 ` Gilles Chanteperdrix 1 sibling, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Helder Daniel @ 2015-03-13 17:06 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Michael Smith; +Cc: Xenomai@xenomai.org I was having the same problem. What I did was (for a one source code file module only to keep it simple): In the source code: #include <rtdm/driver.h> The makefile that I use is: obj-m += modulesource.o $(eval EXTRA_CFLAGS := $(shell xeno-config --kcflags)) #or: #$(eval ccflags-y = $(shell xeno-config --kcflags)) all: make -C /lib/modules/$(shell uname -r)/build M=$(PWD) modules clean: make -C /lib/modules/$(shell uname -r)/build M=$(PWD) clean It assumes that: /lib/modules/3.16.0-ipipe/build -> /usr/src/linux-3.16.0-ipipe/ points the full source tree (not just a headers tree like the one created by the debian kbuild) On 13 March 2015 at 16:39, Michael Smith <2michael.smith@gmail.com> wrote: > On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 1:42 PM, Michael Smith <2michael.smith@gmail.com> > wrote: > > On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 11:32 AM, Philippe Gerum <rpm@xenomai.org> > wrote: > >> On 03/13/2015 09:17 AM, Michael Smith wrote: > >>> Hi. > >>> I am busy porting device drivers over to Xenomai 3.0. > >>> At the moment I'm having trouble figuring out the location of > >>> rtdm/driver.h. > >>> I would assume it should be installed under /usr/include/xenomai, > because > >>> in my previous Xenomai 2.x build the rtdm/rtdm_driver.h was located > there. > >>> I can see the file in the Xenomai source code but its not installed > under > >>> /usr/include/xenomai after Xenomai 3.0 the build and install. > >>> I'm using cobalt with an x86_64 architecture. > >>> > >>> Am I missing something? Is there something that I should have setup in > the > >>> configuration file with the install? I went back and had a look in the > >>> Linux kernel > >>> build setup under the Xenomai heading, but I could not see any obvious > >>> options that I missed. > >>> > >> > >> In short, Xenomai 3 introduces a split between kernel and userland > >> headers, with only a few of them shared in order to expose the ABI. So > >> you need to build against a kernel prepared with the Xenomai sources, > >> adding the proper extra CFLAGS to your kernel Makefile for building the > >> module with the proper -I directives to find them. > >> > >> Everything under /usr/include/xenomai now belongs to userland > >> exclusively, barring the ABI bits (uapi/). > >> > >> See http://www.xenomai.org/pipermail/xenomai/2015-March/033558.html > >> > >> -- > >> Philippe. > > > > I understand. > > Thanks Phillipe. > > Will implement it like that. > > If I can suggest, maybe to have a note of this somewhere in the > > documentation, or > > a RTDM example will clarify similar questions in the future. > > > > Regards > > Michael > > I am trying to do a out of tree compile for my RTDM driver. > As I include the line $(shell xeno-config --kcflags)) in my make file, > it expands to the line -Iarch/$(SRCARCH)/xenomai/include -Iinclude/xenomai. > > My problem is my compiler is not finding the $(SRCARCH) variable in > the make process. > I had a look and its not defined in my environmental variables either. > I see the only place it is defined is in linux/Makefile on the top > level of the Linux tree. > > But does this mean I can only compile a Xenomai driver as part of the > full Linux tree? > And do I need to re-make the whole kernel tree when I want to compile a > custom > Xenomai driver? > Where would I need to place the RTDM source code if I want to compile > it, linux/drivers perhaps? > Or can I still do a out of tree compile for a Xenomai driver? > > Thanks > Michael > > _______________________________________________ > Xenomai mailing list > Xenomai@xenomai.org > http://www.xenomai.org/mailman/listinfo/xenomai > -- Helder Daniel UALG - FCT DEEI http://w3.ualg.pt/~hdaniel ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: [Xenomai] rtdm/driver.h location - Xenomai 3.0 2015-03-13 17:06 ` Helder Daniel @ 2015-03-13 17:10 ` Gilles Chanteperdrix 2015-03-13 17:16 ` Helder Daniel 2015-03-16 6:15 ` Michael Smith 0 siblings, 2 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Gilles Chanteperdrix @ 2015-03-13 17:10 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Helder Daniel; +Cc: Michael Smith, Xenomai@xenomai.org On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 05:06:06PM +0000, Helder Daniel wrote: > I was having the same problem. > What I did was (for a one source code file module only to keep it simple): > > In the source code: #include <rtdm/driver.h> > > The makefile that I use is: > > obj-m += modulesource.o > > $(eval EXTRA_CFLAGS := $(shell xeno-config --kcflags)) > #or: > #$(eval ccflags-y = $(shell xeno-config --kcflags)) > > all: > make -C /lib/modules/$(shell uname -r)/build M=$(PWD) modules > clean: > make -C /lib/modules/$(shell uname -r)/build M=$(PWD) clean > > It assumes that: > > /lib/modules/3.16.0-ipipe/build -> /usr/src/linux-3.16.0-ipipe/ > > points the full source tree (not just a headers tree like the one created > by the debian kbuild) Once again, typing: make -C /usr/src/linux-3.16.0-ipipe/ M=$(PWD) modules is shorter and avoids the need for a symbolic link which requires root privileges. -- Gilles. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: [Xenomai] rtdm/driver.h location - Xenomai 3.0 2015-03-13 17:10 ` Gilles Chanteperdrix @ 2015-03-13 17:16 ` Helder Daniel 2015-03-16 6:15 ` Michael Smith 1 sibling, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Helder Daniel @ 2015-03-13 17:16 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Gilles Chanteperdrix; +Cc: Michael Smith, Xenomai@xenomai.org > > > Once again, typing: > > make -C /usr/src/linux-3.16.0-ipipe/ M=$(PWD) modules > > is shorter and avoids the need for a symbolic link which requires > root privileges. > > ok. thanks Gilles ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: [Xenomai] rtdm/driver.h location - Xenomai 3.0 2015-03-13 17:10 ` Gilles Chanteperdrix 2015-03-13 17:16 ` Helder Daniel @ 2015-03-16 6:15 ` Michael Smith 1 sibling, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Michael Smith @ 2015-03-16 6:15 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Gilles Chanteperdrix; +Cc: Xenomai@xenomai.org On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 7:10 PM, Gilles Chanteperdrix <gilles.chanteperdrix@xenomai.org> wrote: > On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 05:06:06PM +0000, Helder Daniel wrote: >> I was having the same problem. >> What I did was (for a one source code file module only to keep it simple): >> >> In the source code: #include <rtdm/driver.h> >> >> The makefile that I use is: >> >> obj-m += modulesource.o >> >> $(eval EXTRA_CFLAGS := $(shell xeno-config --kcflags)) >> #or: >> #$(eval ccflags-y = $(shell xeno-config --kcflags)) >> >> all: >> make -C /lib/modules/$(shell uname -r)/build M=$(PWD) modules >> clean: >> make -C /lib/modules/$(shell uname -r)/build M=$(PWD) clean >> >> It assumes that: >> >> /lib/modules/3.16.0-ipipe/build -> /usr/src/linux-3.16.0-ipipe/ >> >> points the full source tree (not just a headers tree like the one created >> by the debian kbuild) > > Once again, typing: > > make -C /usr/src/linux-3.16.0-ipipe/ M=$(PWD) modules > > is shorter and avoids the need for a symbolic link which requires > root privileges. > > -- > Gilles. Thanks Gilles. Its a great help. Regards Michael ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: [Xenomai] rtdm/driver.h location - Xenomai 3.0 2015-03-13 11:42 ` Michael Smith 2015-03-13 16:39 ` Michael Smith @ 2015-03-16 9:59 ` Philippe Gerum 2015-03-16 11:09 ` Michael Smith 1 sibling, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Philippe Gerum @ 2015-03-16 9:59 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Michael Smith; +Cc: xenomai On 03/13/2015 12:42 PM, Michael Smith wrote: > On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 11:32 AM, Philippe Gerum <rpm@xenomai.org> wrote: >> On 03/13/2015 09:17 AM, Michael Smith wrote: >>> Hi. >>> I am busy porting device drivers over to Xenomai 3.0. >>> At the moment I'm having trouble figuring out the location of >>> rtdm/driver.h. >>> I would assume it should be installed under /usr/include/xenomai, because >>> in my previous Xenomai 2.x build the rtdm/rtdm_driver.h was located there. >>> I can see the file in the Xenomai source code but its not installed under >>> /usr/include/xenomai after Xenomai 3.0 the build and install. >>> I'm using cobalt with an x86_64 architecture. >>> >>> Am I missing something? Is there something that I should have setup in the >>> configuration file with the install? I went back and had a look in the >>> Linux kernel >>> build setup under the Xenomai heading, but I could not see any obvious >>> options that I missed. >>> >> >> In short, Xenomai 3 introduces a split between kernel and userland >> headers, with only a few of them shared in order to expose the ABI. So >> you need to build against a kernel prepared with the Xenomai sources, >> adding the proper extra CFLAGS to your kernel Makefile for building the >> module with the proper -I directives to find them. >> >> Everything under /usr/include/xenomai now belongs to userland >> exclusively, barring the ABI bits (uapi/). >> >> See http://www.xenomai.org/pipermail/xenomai/2015-March/033558.html >> >> -- >> Philippe. > > I understand. > Thanks Phillipe. > Will implement it like that. > If I can suggest, maybe to have a note of this somewhere in the > documentation, or > a RTDM example will clarify similar questions in the future. > This newly added documentation may help: http://xenomai.org/building-applications-with-xenomai-3-x/#compiling_a_rtdm-based_module -- Philippe. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: [Xenomai] rtdm/driver.h location - Xenomai 3.0 2015-03-16 9:59 ` Philippe Gerum @ 2015-03-16 11:09 ` Michael Smith 0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Michael Smith @ 2015-03-16 11:09 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Philippe Gerum; +Cc: Xenomai@xenomai.org On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 11:59 AM, Philippe Gerum <rpm@xenomai.org> wrote: > On 03/13/2015 12:42 PM, Michael Smith wrote: >> On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 11:32 AM, Philippe Gerum <rpm@xenomai.org> wrote: >>> On 03/13/2015 09:17 AM, Michael Smith wrote: >>>> Hi. >>>> I am busy porting device drivers over to Xenomai 3.0. >>>> At the moment I'm having trouble figuring out the location of >>>> rtdm/driver.h. >>>> I would assume it should be installed under /usr/include/xenomai, because >>>> in my previous Xenomai 2.x build the rtdm/rtdm_driver.h was located there. >>>> I can see the file in the Xenomai source code but its not installed under >>>> /usr/include/xenomai after Xenomai 3.0 the build and install. >>>> I'm using cobalt with an x86_64 architecture. >>>> >>>> Am I missing something? Is there something that I should have setup in the >>>> configuration file with the install? I went back and had a look in the >>>> Linux kernel >>>> build setup under the Xenomai heading, but I could not see any obvious >>>> options that I missed. >>>> >>> >>> In short, Xenomai 3 introduces a split between kernel and userland >>> headers, with only a few of them shared in order to expose the ABI. So >>> you need to build against a kernel prepared with the Xenomai sources, >>> adding the proper extra CFLAGS to your kernel Makefile for building the >>> module with the proper -I directives to find them. >>> >>> Everything under /usr/include/xenomai now belongs to userland >>> exclusively, barring the ABI bits (uapi/). >>> >>> See http://www.xenomai.org/pipermail/xenomai/2015-March/033558.html >>> >>> -- >>> Philippe. >> >> I understand. >> Thanks Phillipe. >> Will implement it like that. >> If I can suggest, maybe to have a note of this somewhere in the >> documentation, or >> a RTDM example will clarify similar questions in the future. >> > > This newly added documentation may help: > > http://xenomai.org/building-applications-with-xenomai-3-x/#compiling_a_rtdm-based_module > > -- > Philippe. Thanks, yes that's perfect. Regards Micheal ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2015-03-16 11:09 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 11+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2015-03-13 8:17 [Xenomai] rtdm/driver.h location - Xenomai 3.0 Michael Smith 2015-03-13 9:32 ` Philippe Gerum 2015-03-13 11:42 ` Michael Smith 2015-03-13 16:39 ` Michael Smith 2015-03-13 16:44 ` Gilles Chanteperdrix 2015-03-13 17:06 ` Helder Daniel 2015-03-13 17:10 ` Gilles Chanteperdrix 2015-03-13 17:16 ` Helder Daniel 2015-03-16 6:15 ` Michael Smith 2015-03-16 9:59 ` Philippe Gerum 2015-03-16 11:09 ` Michael Smith
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