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From: Jeff Epler <jepler@unpythonic.net>
To: Austin S Hemmelgarn <ahferroin7@gmail.com>
Cc: "Theodore Ts'o" <tytso@mit.edu>, Andi Kleen <andi@firstfloor.org>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kirill.shutemov@linux.intel.com,
	herbert@gondor.apana.org.au, Andi Kleen <ak@linux.intel.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 1/3] Make /dev/urandom scalable
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2015 11:52:04 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20150924165204.GA2835@unpythonic.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <56041E2C.2030602@gmail.com>

On Thu, Sep 24, 2015 at 12:00:44PM -0400, Austin S Hemmelgarn wrote:
> I've had cases where I've done thousands of dieharder runs, and it
> failed almost 10% of the time, while stuff like mt19937 fails in
> otherwise identical tests only about 1-2% of the time

That is a startling result.  Please say what architecture, kernel
version, dieharder version and commandline arguments you are using to
get 10% WEAK or FAILED assessments from dieharder on /dev/urandom.

Since the structure of linux urandom involves taking a cryptographic
hash the basic expectation is that it would fail statistical randomness
tests at similar rates to e.g., dieharder's AES_OFB (-g 205) even in the
absence of any entropy in the kernel pools.

So if 10% failures at correct statistical tests can be replicated it is
important and needs attention.

I did take a few moments to look into this today and got starling
failures (p-value 0.00000000) with e.g., 
    dieharder -g 501 -d 10
(and a few other tests) using dieharder 3.31.1 on both debian
linux-4.1-rt-amd64 and debian kfreebsd-10-amd64, but this seems to be an
upstream bug known at least to debian and redhat, possibly fixed in
current Fedora but apparently not in Debian.
    https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=745742
    https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?format=multiple&id=803292
if you have an affected version, these failures are seen only with -g
501, not with -g 200 < /dev/urandom.  They are probably also not seen
with 32-bit dieharder.

 diehard_parking_lot|   0|     12000|     100|0.00000000|  FAILED  
    diehard_2dsphere|   2|      8000|     100|0.00000000|  FAILED  
    diehard_3dsphere|   3|      4000|     100|0.00000000|  FAILED  
     diehard_squeeze|   0|    100000|     100|0.00000000|  FAILED  
        diehard_sums|   0|       100|     100|0.00000000|  FAILED  

Jeff

  reply	other threads:[~2015-09-24 16:52 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 27+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-09-22 23:16 [PATCH 1/3] Make /dev/urandom scalable Andi Kleen
2015-09-22 23:16 ` [PATCH 2/3] random: Make input to output pool balancing per cpu Andi Kleen
2015-09-22 23:16 ` [PATCH 3/3] random: Add pool name to urandom_read trace point Andi Kleen
2015-09-22 23:25 ` [PATCH 1/3] Make /dev/urandom scalable Andi Kleen
2015-09-23 10:32 ` Rasmus Villemoes
2015-09-23 21:54   ` Andi Kleen
2015-09-23 19:40 ` Austin S Hemmelgarn
2015-09-23 23:28   ` Andi Kleen
2015-09-24 11:37     ` Austin S Hemmelgarn
2015-09-24 13:12       ` Theodore Ts'o
2015-09-24 16:00         ` Austin S Hemmelgarn
2015-09-24 16:52           ` Jeff Epler [this message]
2015-09-24 19:11             ` Austin S Hemmelgarn
2015-09-24 20:00               ` Jeff Epler
2015-09-24 20:14               ` Theodore Ts'o
2015-09-25 11:41                 ` Austin S Hemmelgarn
2015-09-25 19:07                   ` Austin S Hemmelgarn
2015-09-25 20:24                     ` Theodore Ts'o
2015-09-29 12:06                       ` Austin S Hemmelgarn
2015-09-29 11:57                     ` Austin S Hemmelgarn
2015-09-23 21:10 ` Theodore Ts'o
2015-09-23 21:25   ` Andi Kleen
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2015-09-24 17:19 Updated scalable urandom patchkit Andi Kleen
2015-09-24 17:19 ` [PATCH 1/3] Make /dev/urandom scalable Andi Kleen
2015-09-30 14:40   ` Rasmus Villemoes
2015-10-06 22:05 Andi Kleen
2016-02-10 23:01 Scalable random patchkit revisited Andi Kleen
2016-02-10 23:01 ` [PATCH 1/3] Make /dev/urandom scalable Andi Kleen
2016-03-01  5:17 Andi Kleen

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