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From: Tejun Heo <tj-DgEjT+Ai2ygdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org>
To: Aleksa Sarai <asarai-l3A5Bk7waGM@public.gmane.org>
Cc: "Serge E. Hallyn" <serge-A9i7LUbDfNHQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>,
	Greg Kroah-Hartman
	<gregkh-hQyY1W1yCW8ekmWlsbkhG0B+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org>,
	Li Zefan <lizefan-hv44wF8Li93QT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>,
	Johannes Weiner <hannes-druUgvl0LCNAfugRpC6u6w@public.gmane.org>,
	"Serge E. Hallyn"
	<serge.hallyn-GeWIH/nMZzLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>,
	Aditya Kali <adityakali-hpIqsD4AKlfQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>,
	Chris Wilson
	<chris-Y6uKTt2uX1cEflXRtASbqLVCufUGDwFn@public.gmane.org>,
	linux-kernel-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org,
	cgroups-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org,
	Christian Brauner <cbrauner-l3A5Bk7waGM@public.gmane.org>,
	dev-IGmTWi+3HBZvNhPySn5qfx2eb7JE58TQ@public.gmane.org,
	James Bottomley
	<James.Bottomley-JuX6DAaQMKPCXq6kfMZ53/egYHeGw8Jk@public.gmane.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v1 3/3] cgroup: relax common ancestor restriction for direct descendants
Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 11:01:35 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20160721150135.GD22680@htj.duckdns.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <2dc90947-cee7-90a9-3e60-4ca7c0de29d3-l3A5Bk7waGM@public.gmane.org>

Hello, Aleksa.

On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 12:37:42AM +1000, Aleksa Sarai wrote:
> > Ths is of course solvable using something like libpam-cgfs or
> > libpam-cgm (and others).  Since this sounds like a question of
> > policy, not mechanism, userspace seems like the right place.  Is
> > there a downside to that (or, as Tejun put it, "delegating explicitly")?
> 
> Having a PAM module requires getting an administrator to install the PAM
> module (and also presumably audit it, not to mention convincing them that
> your requirement to use containers are significant enough for them to do any
> work). It's the same problem IMO. I understand that LXC allows you to do
> this, but it requires that you get an administrator to *install* and support
> LXC (as well as the shadow-utils setuid binaries too). There are cases where
> you don't have the freedom to do that, and also "just get someone to give
> you privileges temporarily" is again punting on the problem.

The administrator has to install a new kernel to get this feature from
kernel side too.  I don't think "to bypass admin" is a strong argument
for a new kernel feature especially when it's likely to cause subtle
issues as in this case.

Thanks.

-- 
tejun

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Tejun Heo <tj@kernel.org>
To: Aleksa Sarai <asarai@suse.de>
Cc: "Serge E. Hallyn" <serge@hallyn.com>,
	Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>,
	Li Zefan <lizefan@huawei.com>,
	Johannes Weiner <hannes@cmpxchg.org>,
	"Serge E. Hallyn" <serge.hallyn@ubuntu.com>,
	Aditya Kali <adityakali@google.com>,
	Chris Wilson <chris@chris-wilson.co.uk>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, cgroups@vger.kernel.org,
	Christian Brauner <cbrauner@suse.de>,
	dev@opencontainers.org,
	James Bottomley <James.Bottomley@hansenpartnership.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v1 3/3] cgroup: relax common ancestor restriction for direct descendants
Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 11:01:35 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20160721150135.GD22680@htj.duckdns.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <2dc90947-cee7-90a9-3e60-4ca7c0de29d3@suse.de>

Hello, Aleksa.

On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 12:37:42AM +1000, Aleksa Sarai wrote:
> > Ths is of course solvable using something like libpam-cgfs or
> > libpam-cgm (and others).  Since this sounds like a question of
> > policy, not mechanism, userspace seems like the right place.  Is
> > there a downside to that (or, as Tejun put it, "delegating explicitly")?
> 
> Having a PAM module requires getting an administrator to install the PAM
> module (and also presumably audit it, not to mention convincing them that
> your requirement to use containers are significant enough for them to do any
> work). It's the same problem IMO. I understand that LXC allows you to do
> this, but it requires that you get an administrator to *install* and support
> LXC (as well as the shadow-utils setuid binaries too). There are cases where
> you don't have the freedom to do that, and also "just get someone to give
> you privileges temporarily" is again punting on the problem.

The administrator has to install a new kernel to get this feature from
kernel side too.  I don't think "to bypass admin" is a strong argument
for a new kernel feature especially when it's likely to cause subtle
issues as in this case.

Thanks.

-- 
tejun

  parent reply	other threads:[~2016-07-21 15:01 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 62+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2016-07-18 16:18 [PATCH v1 0/3] cgroup: allow for unprivileged management Aleksa Sarai
2016-07-18 16:18 ` [PATCH v1 1/3] kernfs: add support for custom per-sb permission hooks Aleksa Sarai
     [not found] ` <20160718161816.13040-1-asarai-l3A5Bk7waGM@public.gmane.org>
2016-07-18 16:18   ` [PATCH v1 2/3] cgroup: allow for unprivileged subtree management Aleksa Sarai
2016-07-18 16:18     ` Aleksa Sarai
     [not found]     ` <20160718161816.13040-3-asarai-l3A5Bk7waGM@public.gmane.org>
2016-07-20 15:45       ` Tejun Heo
2016-07-20 15:45         ` Tejun Heo
     [not found]         ` <20160720154557.GF4574-piEFEHQLUPpN0TnZuCh8vA@public.gmane.org>
2016-07-20 22:59           ` Aleksa Sarai
2016-07-20 22:59             ` Aleksa Sarai
2016-07-18 16:18   ` [PATCH v1 3/3] cgroup: relax common ancestor restriction for direct descendants Aleksa Sarai
2016-07-18 16:18     ` Aleksa Sarai
     [not found]     ` <20160718161816.13040-4-asarai-l3A5Bk7waGM@public.gmane.org>
2016-07-20 15:51       ` Tejun Heo
2016-07-20 15:51         ` Tejun Heo
     [not found]         ` <20160720155147.GG4574-piEFEHQLUPpN0TnZuCh8vA@public.gmane.org>
2016-07-20 22:58           ` Aleksa Sarai
2016-07-20 22:58             ` Aleksa Sarai
     [not found]             ` <6e975d80-4077-fb8b-ec84-708e37c8e149-l3A5Bk7waGM@public.gmane.org>
2016-07-20 23:02               ` Tejun Heo
2016-07-20 23:02                 ` Tejun Heo
     [not found]                 ` <20160720230228.GA19588-qYNAdHglDFBN0TnZuCh8vA@public.gmane.org>
2016-07-20 23:18                   ` Aleksa Sarai
2016-07-20 23:18                     ` Aleksa Sarai
     [not found]                     ` <982fcf3a-3685-9bd7-dd95-7bff255c9421-l3A5Bk7waGM@public.gmane.org>
2016-07-20 23:19                       ` Tejun Heo
2016-07-20 23:19                         ` Tejun Heo
     [not found]                         ` <20160720231949.GB19588-qYNAdHglDFBN0TnZuCh8vA@public.gmane.org>
2016-07-21  7:49                           ` Aleksa Sarai
2016-07-21  7:49                             ` Aleksa Sarai
     [not found]                             ` <379e5b13-29d4-ca75-1935-0a64f3db8d27-l3A5Bk7waGM@public.gmane.org>
2016-07-21 14:33                               ` Serge E. Hallyn
2016-07-21 14:33                                 ` Serge E. Hallyn
     [not found]                                 ` <20160721143330.GA5751-7LNsyQBKDXoIagZqoN9o3w@public.gmane.org>
2016-07-21 14:37                                   ` Aleksa Sarai
2016-07-21 14:37                                     ` Aleksa Sarai
     [not found]                                     ` <2dc90947-cee7-90a9-3e60-4ca7c0de29d3-l3A5Bk7waGM@public.gmane.org>
2016-07-21 15:01                                       ` Tejun Heo [this message]
2016-07-21 15:01                                         ` Tejun Heo
2016-07-21 15:09                                       ` Serge E. Hallyn
2016-07-21 15:09                                         ` Serge E. Hallyn
2016-07-21 14:51                                   ` James Bottomley
2016-07-21 14:51                                     ` James Bottomley
     [not found]                                     ` <1469112709.2331.11.camel-d9PhHud1JfjCXq6kfMZ53/egYHeGw8Jk@public.gmane.org>
2016-07-21 14:59                                       ` Tejun Heo
2016-07-21 14:59                                         ` Tejun Heo
     [not found]                                         ` <20160721145905.GC22680-piEFEHQLUPpN0TnZuCh8vA@public.gmane.org>
2016-07-21 15:07                                           ` Aleksa Sarai
2016-07-21 15:07                                             ` Aleksa Sarai
2016-07-21 15:04                                             ` Tejun Heo
2016-07-21 14:52                               ` Tejun Heo
2016-07-21 14:52                                 ` Tejun Heo
     [not found]                                 ` <20160721145242.GB22680-piEFEHQLUPpN0TnZuCh8vA@public.gmane.org>
2016-07-21 15:04                                   ` James Bottomley
2016-07-21 15:04                                     ` James Bottomley
     [not found]                                     ` <1469113456.2331.16.camel-d9PhHud1JfjCXq6kfMZ53/egYHeGw8Jk@public.gmane.org>
2016-07-21 15:07                                       ` Tejun Heo
2016-07-21 15:07                                         ` Tejun Heo
     [not found]                                         ` <20160721150740.GF22680-piEFEHQLUPpN0TnZuCh8vA@public.gmane.org>
2016-07-21 15:16                                           ` James Bottomley
2016-07-21 15:16                                             ` James Bottomley
2016-07-21 15:26                                             ` Tejun Heo
     [not found]                                               ` <20160721152648.GA23759-piEFEHQLUPpN0TnZuCh8vA@public.gmane.org>
2016-07-21 15:34                                                 ` James Bottomley
2016-07-21 15:34                                                   ` James Bottomley
     [not found]                                                   ` <1469115276.2331.23.camel-d9PhHud1JfjCXq6kfMZ53/egYHeGw8Jk@public.gmane.org>
2016-07-21 15:50                                                     ` Tejun Heo
2016-07-21 15:50                                                       ` Tejun Heo
     [not found]                                                       ` <20160721155046.GB23759-piEFEHQLUPpN0TnZuCh8vA@public.gmane.org>
2016-07-21 18:16                                                         ` James Bottomley
2016-07-21 18:16                                                           ` James Bottomley
     [not found]                                                           ` <1469125002.2331.54.camel-d9PhHud1JfjCXq6kfMZ53/egYHeGw8Jk@public.gmane.org>
2016-07-21 21:06                                                             ` Tejun Heo
2016-07-21 21:06                                                               ` Tejun Heo
2016-07-22  8:30                                                       ` Aleksa Sarai
     [not found]                                                         ` <177bbc17-5c75-1ff8-0b1f-0c5601fa7e6b-l3A5Bk7waGM@public.gmane.org>
2016-07-25 18:38                                                           ` Tejun Heo
2016-07-25 18:38                                                             ` Tejun Heo
     [not found]                                                             ` <20160725183801.GE19588-qYNAdHglDFBN0TnZuCh8vA@public.gmane.org>
2016-07-25 22:54                                                               ` Serge E. Hallyn
2016-07-25 22:54                                                                 ` Serge E. Hallyn
2016-07-22  8:24                                           ` Aleksa Sarai
2016-07-22  8:24                                             ` Aleksa Sarai
2016-07-25 18:44                                             ` Tejun Heo

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