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From: "Radim Krčmář" <rkrcmar@redhat.com>
To: Paolo Bonzini <pbonzini@redhat.com>
Cc: Wanpeng Li <kernellwp@gmail.com>,
	Yang Zhang <yang.zhang.wz@gmail.com>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>, "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>,
	the arch/x86 maintainers <x86@kernel.org>,
	Jonathan Corbet <corbet@lwn.net>,
	tony.luck@intel.com, Borislav Petkov <bp@alien8.de>,
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
	mchehab@kernel.org, Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	krzk@kernel.org, jpoimboe@redhat.com,
	Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org>,
	Christian Borntraeger <borntraeger@de.ibm.com>,
	Thomas Garnier <thgarnie@google.com>,
	Robert Gerst <rgerst@gmail.com>,
	Mathias Krause <minipli@googlemail.com>,
	douly.fnst@cn.fujitsu.com, Nicolai Stange <nicstange@gmail.com>,
	Frederic Weisbecker <fweisbec@gmail.com>,
	dvlasenk@redhat.com,
	Daniel Bristot de Oliveira <bristot@redhat.com>,
	yamada.masahiro@socionext.com, mika.westerberg@linux.intel.com,
	Chen Yu <yu.c.chen@intel.com>,
	aaron.lu@intel.com, Steven Rostedt <rostedt@goodmis.org>,
	Kyle Huey <me@kylehuey.com>, Len Brown <len.brown@intel.com>,
	Prarit Bhargava <prarit@redhat.com>,
	hidehiro.kawai.ez@hitachi.com, fengtiantian@huawei.com,
	pmladek@suse.com, jeyu@redhat.com, Larry.Finger@lwfinger.net,
	zijun_hu@htc.com, luisbg@osg.samsung.com,
	johannes.berg@intel.com, niklas.soderlund+renesas@ragnatech.se,
	zlpnobody@gmail.com, Alexey Dobriyan <adobriyan@gmail.com>,
	fgao@ikuai8.com, ebiederm@xmission.com,
	Subash Abhinov Kasiviswanathan <subashab@codeaurora.org>,
	Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de>,
	Matt Fleming <matt@codeblueprint.co.uk>,
	Mel Gorman <mgorman@techsingularity.net>,
	"linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-doc@vger.kernel.org, linux-edac@vger.kernel.org,
	kvm <kvm@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: [2/2] x86/idle: use dynamic halt poll
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 16:22:51 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20170627142251.GB1487@potion> (raw)

2017-06-27 15:56+0200, Paolo Bonzini:
> On 27/06/2017 15:40, Radim Krčmář wrote:
>>> ... which is not necessarily _wrong_.  It's just a different heuristic.
>> Right, it's just harder to use than host's single_task_running() -- the
>> VCPU calling vcpu_is_preempted() is never preempted, so we have to look
>> at other VCPUs that are not halted, but still preempted.
>> 
>> If we see some ratio of preempted VCPUs (> 0?), then we stop polling and
>> yield to the host.  Working under the assumption that there is work for
>> this PCPU if other VCPUs have stuff to do.  The downside is that it
>> misses information about host's topology, so it would be hard to make it
>> work well.
> 
> I would just use vcpu_is_preempted on the current CPU.  From guest POV
> this option is really a "f*** everyone else" setting just like
> idle=poll, only a little more polite.

vcpu_is_preempted() on current cpu cannot return true, AFAIK.

> If we've been preempted and we were polling, there are two cases.  If an
> interrupt was queued while the guest was preempted, the poll will be
> treated as successful anyway.

I think the poll should be treated as invalid if the window has expired
while the VCPU was preempted -- the guest can't tell whether the
interrupt arrived still within the poll window (unless we added paravirt
for that), so it shouldn't be wasting time waiting for it.

>                                If it hasn't, let others run---but really
> that's not because the guest wants to be polite, it's to avoid that the
> scheduler penalizes it excessively.

This sounds like a VM entry just to do an immediate VM exit, so paravirt
seems better here as well ... (the guest telling the host about its
window -- which could also be used to rule it out as a target in the
pause loop random kick.)

> So until it's preempted, I think it's okay if the guest doesn't care
> about others.  You wouldn't use this option anyway in overcommitted
> situations.
> 
> (I'm still not very convinced about the idea).

Me neither.  (The same mechanism is applicable to bare-metal, but was
never used there, so I would rather bring the guest behavior closer to
bare-metal.)
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WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: "Radim Krčmář" <rkrcmar@redhat.com>
To: Paolo Bonzini <pbonzini@redhat.com>
Cc: Wanpeng Li <kernellwp@gmail.com>,
	Yang Zhang <yang.zhang.wz@gmail.com>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>, "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>,
	the arch/x86 maintainers <x86@kernel.org>,
	Jonathan Corbet <corbet@lwn.net>,
	tony.luck@intel.com, Borislav Petkov <bp@alien8.de>,
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
	mchehab@kernel.org, Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	krzk@kernel.org, jpoimboe@redhat.com,
	Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org>,
	Christian Borntraeger <borntraeger@de.ibm.com>,
	Thomas Garnier <thgarnie@google.com>,
	Robert Gerst <rgerst@gmail.com>,
	Mathias Krause <minipli@googlemail.com>,
	douly.fnst@cn.fujitsu.com, Nicolai Stange <nicstange@gmail.com>,
	Frederic Weisbecker <fweisbec@gmail.com>, dvlasenk@redhat.com,
Subject: Re: [PATCH 2/2] x86/idle: use dynamic halt poll
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 16:22:51 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20170627142251.GB1487@potion> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <2771f905-d1b0-b118-9ae9-db5fb87f877c@redhat.com>

2017-06-27 15:56+0200, Paolo Bonzini:
> On 27/06/2017 15:40, Radim Krčmář wrote:
>>> ... which is not necessarily _wrong_.  It's just a different heuristic.
>> Right, it's just harder to use than host's single_task_running() -- the
>> VCPU calling vcpu_is_preempted() is never preempted, so we have to look
>> at other VCPUs that are not halted, but still preempted.
>> 
>> If we see some ratio of preempted VCPUs (> 0?), then we stop polling and
>> yield to the host.  Working under the assumption that there is work for
>> this PCPU if other VCPUs have stuff to do.  The downside is that it
>> misses information about host's topology, so it would be hard to make it
>> work well.
> 
> I would just use vcpu_is_preempted on the current CPU.  From guest POV
> this option is really a "f*** everyone else" setting just like
> idle=poll, only a little more polite.

vcpu_is_preempted() on current cpu cannot return true, AFAIK.

> If we've been preempted and we were polling, there are two cases.  If an
> interrupt was queued while the guest was preempted, the poll will be
> treated as successful anyway.

I think the poll should be treated as invalid if the window has expired
while the VCPU was preempted -- the guest can't tell whether the
interrupt arrived still within the poll window (unless we added paravirt
for that), so it shouldn't be wasting time waiting for it.

>                                If it hasn't, let others run---but really
> that's not because the guest wants to be polite, it's to avoid that the
> scheduler penalizes it excessively.

This sounds like a VM entry just to do an immediate VM exit, so paravirt
seems better here as well ... (the guest telling the host about its
window -- which could also be used to rule it out as a target in the
pause loop random kick.)

> So until it's preempted, I think it's okay if the guest doesn't care
> about others.  You wouldn't use this option anyway in overcommitted
> situations.
> 
> (I'm still not very convinced about the idea).

Me neither.  (The same mechanism is applicable to bare-metal, but was
never used there, so I would rather bring the guest behavior closer to
bare-metal.)

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: "Radim Krčmář" <rkrcmar@redhat.com>
To: Paolo Bonzini <pbonzini@redhat.com>
Cc: Wanpeng Li <kernellwp@gmail.com>,
	Yang Zhang <yang.zhang.wz@gmail.com>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>, "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>,
	the arch/x86 maintainers <x86@kernel.org>,
	Jonathan Corbet <corbet@lwn.net>,
	tony.luck@intel.com, Borislav Petkov <bp@alien8.de>,
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
	mchehab@kernel.org, Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	krzk@kernel.org, jpoimboe@redhat.com,
	Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org>,
	Christian Borntraeger <borntraeger@de.ibm.com>,
	Thomas Garnier <thgarnie@google.com>,
	Robert Gerst <rgerst@gmail.com>,
	Mathias Krause <minipli@googlemail.com>,
	douly.fnst@cn.fujitsu.com, Nicolai Stange <nicstange@gmail.com>,
	Frederic Weisbecker <fweisbec@gmail.com>,
	dvlasenk@redhat.com,
	Daniel Bristot de Oliveira <bristot@redhat.com>,
	yamada.masahiro@socionext.com, mika.westerberg@linux.intel.com,
	Chen Yu <yu.c.chen@intel.com>,
	aaron.lu@intel.com, Steven Rostedt <rostedt@goodmis.org>,
	Kyle Huey <me@kylehuey.com>, Len Brown <len.brown@intel.com>,
	Prarit Bhargava <prarit@redhat.com>,
	hidehiro.kawai.ez@hitachi.com, fengtiantian@huawei.com,
	pmladek@suse.com, jeyu@redhat.com, Larry.Finger@lwfinger.net,
	zijun_hu@htc.com, luisbg@osg.samsung.com,
	johannes.berg@intel.com, niklas.soderlund+renesas@ragnatech.se,
	zlpnobody@gmail.com, Alexey Dobriyan <adobriyan@gmail.com>,
	fgao@48lvckh6395k16k5.yundunddos.com, ebiederm@xmission.com,
	Subash Abhinov Kasiviswanathan <subashab@codeaurora.org>,
	Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de>,
	Matt Fleming <matt@codeblueprint.co.uk>,
	Mel Gorman <mgorman@techsingularity.net>,
	"linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-doc@vger.kernel.org, linux-edac@vger.kernel.org,
	kvm <kvm@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 2/2] x86/idle: use dynamic halt poll
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 16:22:51 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20170627142251.GB1487@potion> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <2771f905-d1b0-b118-9ae9-db5fb87f877c@redhat.com>

2017-06-27 15:56+0200, Paolo Bonzini:
> On 27/06/2017 15:40, Radim Krčmář wrote:
>>> ... which is not necessarily _wrong_.  It's just a different heuristic.
>> Right, it's just harder to use than host's single_task_running() -- the
>> VCPU calling vcpu_is_preempted() is never preempted, so we have to look
>> at other VCPUs that are not halted, but still preempted.
>> 
>> If we see some ratio of preempted VCPUs (> 0?), then we stop polling and
>> yield to the host.  Working under the assumption that there is work for
>> this PCPU if other VCPUs have stuff to do.  The downside is that it
>> misses information about host's topology, so it would be hard to make it
>> work well.
> 
> I would just use vcpu_is_preempted on the current CPU.  From guest POV
> this option is really a "f*** everyone else" setting just like
> idle=poll, only a little more polite.

vcpu_is_preempted() on current cpu cannot return true, AFAIK.

> If we've been preempted and we were polling, there are two cases.  If an
> interrupt was queued while the guest was preempted, the poll will be
> treated as successful anyway.

I think the poll should be treated as invalid if the window has expired
while the VCPU was preempted -- the guest can't tell whether the
interrupt arrived still within the poll window (unless we added paravirt
for that), so it shouldn't be wasting time waiting for it.

>                                If it hasn't, let others run---but really
> that's not because the guest wants to be polite, it's to avoid that the
> scheduler penalizes it excessively.

This sounds like a VM entry just to do an immediate VM exit, so paravirt
seems better here as well ... (the guest telling the host about its
window -- which could also be used to rule it out as a target in the
pause loop random kick.)

> So until it's preempted, I think it's okay if the guest doesn't care
> about others.  You wouldn't use this option anyway in overcommitted
> situations.
> 
> (I'm still not very convinced about the idea).

Me neither.  (The same mechanism is applicable to bare-metal, but was
never used there, so I would rather bring the guest behavior closer to
bare-metal.)

             reply	other threads:[~2017-06-27 14:22 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 104+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2017-06-27 14:22 Radim Krčmář [this message]
2017-06-27 14:22 ` [PATCH 2/2] x86/idle: use dynamic halt poll Radim Krčmář
2017-06-27 14:22 ` Radim Krčmář
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2017-08-17  7:29 [1/2] x86/idle: add halt poll for halt idle Yang Zhang
2017-08-17  7:29 ` [PATCH 1/2] " Yang Zhang
2017-08-17  7:29 ` Yang Zhang
2017-08-16  4:04 [1/2] " Michael S. Tsirkin
2017-08-16  4:04 ` [PATCH 1/2] " Michael S. Tsirkin
2017-08-16  4:04 ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2017-07-17 12:50 [2/2] x86/idle: use dynamic halt poll Yang Zhang
2017-07-17 12:50 ` [PATCH 2/2] " Yang Zhang
2017-07-17 12:50 ` Yang Zhang
2017-07-17  9:54 [2/2] " Alexander Graf
2017-07-17  9:54 ` [PATCH 2/2] " Alexander Graf
2017-07-17  9:54 ` Alexander Graf
2017-07-17  9:26 [2/2] " Yang Zhang
2017-07-17  9:26 ` [PATCH 2/2] " Yang Zhang
2017-07-17  9:26 ` Yang Zhang
2017-07-14  9:37 [2/2] " Alexander Graf
2017-07-14  9:37 ` [PATCH 2/2] " Alexander Graf
2017-07-14  9:37 ` Alexander Graf
2017-07-13 11:49 [2/2] " Yang Zhang
2017-07-13 11:49 ` [PATCH 2/2] " Yang Zhang
2017-07-13 11:49 ` Yang Zhang
2017-07-04 22:28 [2/2] " Wanpeng Li
2017-07-04 22:28 ` [PATCH 2/2] " Wanpeng Li
2017-07-04 22:28 ` Wanpeng Li
2017-07-04 14:50 [2/2] " Thomas Gleixner
2017-07-04 14:50 ` [PATCH 2/2] " Thomas Gleixner
2017-07-04 14:50 ` Thomas Gleixner
2017-07-04 14:13 [2/2] " Radim Krčmář
2017-07-04 14:13 ` [PATCH 2/2] " Radim Krčmář
2017-07-04 14:13 ` Radim Krčmář
2017-07-04  2:19 [2/2] " Yang Zhang
2017-07-04  2:19 ` [PATCH 2/2] " Yang Zhang
2017-07-04  2:19 ` Yang Zhang
2017-07-03 10:06 [2/2] " Thomas Gleixner
2017-07-03 10:06 ` [PATCH 2/2] " Thomas Gleixner
2017-07-03 10:06 ` Thomas Gleixner
2017-07-03  9:28 [2/2] " Yang Zhang
2017-07-03  9:28 ` [PATCH 2/2] " Yang Zhang
2017-07-03  9:28 ` Yang Zhang
2017-06-27 14:26 [2/2] " Paolo Bonzini
2017-06-27 14:26 ` [PATCH 2/2] " Paolo Bonzini
2017-06-27 14:26 ` Paolo Bonzini
2017-06-27 13:56 [2/2] " Paolo Bonzini
2017-06-27 13:56 ` [PATCH 2/2] " Paolo Bonzini
2017-06-27 13:56 ` Paolo Bonzini
2017-06-27 13:40 [2/2] " Radim Krčmář
2017-06-27 13:40 ` [PATCH 2/2] " Radim Krčmář
2017-06-27 13:40 ` Radim Krčmář
2017-06-27 12:28 [2/2] " Paolo Bonzini
2017-06-27 12:28 ` [PATCH 2/2] " Paolo Bonzini
2017-06-27 12:28 ` Paolo Bonzini
2017-06-27 12:23 [2/2] " Wanpeng Li
2017-06-27 12:23 ` [PATCH 2/2] " Wanpeng Li
2017-06-27 12:23 ` Wanpeng Li
2017-06-27 12:07 [2/2] " Paolo Bonzini
2017-06-27 12:07 ` [PATCH 2/2] " Paolo Bonzini
2017-06-27 12:07 ` Paolo Bonzini
2017-06-27 11:22 [2/2] " Yang Zhang
2017-06-27 11:22 ` [PATCH 2/2] " Yang Zhang
2017-06-27 11:22 ` Yang Zhang
2017-06-23  4:05 [1/2] x86/idle: add halt poll for halt idle Yang Zhang
2017-06-23  4:05 ` [PATCH 1/2] " Yang Zhang
2017-06-23  4:05 ` Yang Zhang
2017-06-23  4:04 [2/2] x86/idle: use dynamic halt poll Yang Zhang
2017-06-23  4:04 ` [PATCH 2/2] " Yang Zhang
2017-06-23  4:04 ` Yang Zhang
2017-06-23  3:58 [2/2] " Yang Zhang
2017-06-23  3:58 ` [PATCH 2/2] " Yang Zhang
2017-06-23  3:58 ` Yang Zhang
2017-06-22 22:46 [2/2] " kbuild test robot
2017-06-22 22:46 ` [PATCH 2/2] " kbuild test robot
2017-06-22 22:46 ` kbuild test robot
2017-06-22 14:32 [2/2] " Thomas Gleixner
2017-06-22 14:32 ` [PATCH 2/2] " Thomas Gleixner
2017-06-22 14:32 ` Thomas Gleixner
2017-06-22 14:23 [1/2] x86/idle: add halt poll for halt idle Thomas Gleixner
2017-06-22 14:23 ` [PATCH 1/2] " Thomas Gleixner
2017-06-22 14:23 ` Thomas Gleixner
2017-06-22 11:51 [2/2] x86/idle: use dynamic halt poll Paolo Bonzini
2017-06-22 11:51 ` [PATCH 2/2] " Paolo Bonzini
2017-06-22 11:51 ` Paolo Bonzini
2017-06-22 11:22 [2/2] " Yang Zhang
2017-06-22 11:22 ` [PATCH 2/2] " root
2017-06-22 11:22 ` root
2017-06-22 11:22 [1/2] x86/idle: add halt poll for halt idle Yang Zhang
2017-06-22 11:22 ` [PATCH 1/2] " root
2017-06-22 11:22 ` root
2017-06-22 11:22 [PATCH 0/2] x86/idle: add halt poll support root
2017-06-22 11:22 ` root
2017-06-22 11:32 ` Yang Zhang
2017-06-22 11:32   ` Yang Zhang
2017-06-22 11:50 ` Wanpeng Li
2017-06-22 11:50   ` Wanpeng Li
2017-06-23  4:08   ` Yang Zhang
2017-06-23  4:08     ` Yang Zhang
2017-06-23  4:35     ` Wanpeng Li
2017-06-23  4:35       ` Wanpeng Li
2017-06-23  6:49       ` Yang Zhang
2017-06-23  6:49         ` Yang Zhang
2017-06-27 14:00         ` Radim Krčmář
2017-06-27 14:00           ` Radim Krčmář

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