All of lore.kernel.org
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: Minchan Kim <minchan@kernel.org>
To: "Huang, Ying" <ying.huang@intel.com>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>
Cc: linux-mm@kvack.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	Johannes Weiner <hannes@cmpxchg.org>,
	Rik van Riel <riel@redhat.com>, Shaohua Li <shli@kernel.org>,
	Hugh Dickins <hughd@google.com>,
	Fengguang Wu <fengguang.wu@intel.com>,
	Tim Chen <tim.c.chen@intel.com>,
	Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@intel.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH -mm -v4 3/5] mm, swap: VMA based swap readahead
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 10:40:19 +0900	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20170913014019.GB29422@bbox> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20170807054038.1843-4-ying.huang@intel.com>

On Mon, Aug 07, 2017 at 01:40:36PM +0800, Huang, Ying wrote:
> From: Huang Ying <ying.huang@intel.com>
> 
> The swap readahead is an important mechanism to reduce the swap in
> latency.  Although pure sequential memory access pattern isn't very
> popular for anonymous memory, the space locality is still considered
> valid.
> 
> In the original swap readahead implementation, the consecutive blocks
> in swap device are readahead based on the global space locality
> estimation.  But the consecutive blocks in swap device just reflect
> the order of page reclaiming, don't necessarily reflect the access
> pattern in virtual memory.  And the different tasks in the system may
> have different access patterns, which makes the global space locality
> estimation incorrect.
> 
> In this patch, when page fault occurs, the virtual pages near the
> fault address will be readahead instead of the swap slots near the
> fault swap slot in swap device.  This avoid to readahead the unrelated
> swap slots.  At the same time, the swap readahead is changed to work
> on per-VMA from globally.  So that the different access patterns of
> the different VMAs could be distinguished, and the different readahead
> policy could be applied accordingly.  The original core readahead
> detection and scaling algorithm is reused, because it is an effect
> algorithm to detect the space locality.

Andrew,

Every zram users like low-end android device has used 0 page-cluster
to disable swap readahead because it has no seek cost and works as
synchronous IO operation so if we do readahead multiple pages,
swap falut latency would be (4K * readahead window size). IOW,
readahead is meaningful only if it doesn't bother faulted page's
latency.

However, this patch introduces additional knob /sys/kernel/mm/swap/
vma_ra_max_order as well as page-cluster. It means existing users
has used disabled swap readahead doesn't work until they should be
aware of new knob and modification of their script/code to disable
vma_ra_max_order as well as page-cluster.

I say it's a *regression* and wanted to fix it but Huang's opinion
is that it's not a functional regression so userspace should be fixed
by themselves.
Please look into detail of discussion in
http://lkml.kernel.org/r/%3C1505183833-4739-4-git-send-email-minchan@kernel.org%3E

The discussion is never productive so it's time to follow maintainer's
opinion. Could you share your opinion?

Thanks.

--
To unsubscribe, send a message with 'unsubscribe linux-mm' in
the body to majordomo@kvack.org.  For more info on Linux MM,
see: http://www.linux-mm.org/ .
Don't email: <a href=mailto:"dont@kvack.org"> email@kvack.org </a>

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Minchan Kim <minchan@kernel.org>
To: "Huang, Ying" <ying.huang@intel.com>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>
Cc: Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	linux-mm@kvack.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	Johannes Weiner <hannes@cmpxchg.org>,
	Rik van Riel <riel@redhat.com>, Shaohua Li <shli@kernel.org>,
	Hugh Dickins <hughd@google.com>,
	Fengguang Wu <fengguang.wu@intel.com>,
	Tim Chen <tim.c.chen@intel.com>,
	Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@intel.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH -mm -v4 3/5] mm, swap: VMA based swap readahead
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 10:40:19 +0900	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20170913014019.GB29422@bbox> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20170807054038.1843-4-ying.huang@intel.com>

On Mon, Aug 07, 2017 at 01:40:36PM +0800, Huang, Ying wrote:
> From: Huang Ying <ying.huang@intel.com>
> 
> The swap readahead is an important mechanism to reduce the swap in
> latency.  Although pure sequential memory access pattern isn't very
> popular for anonymous memory, the space locality is still considered
> valid.
> 
> In the original swap readahead implementation, the consecutive blocks
> in swap device are readahead based on the global space locality
> estimation.  But the consecutive blocks in swap device just reflect
> the order of page reclaiming, don't necessarily reflect the access
> pattern in virtual memory.  And the different tasks in the system may
> have different access patterns, which makes the global space locality
> estimation incorrect.
> 
> In this patch, when page fault occurs, the virtual pages near the
> fault address will be readahead instead of the swap slots near the
> fault swap slot in swap device.  This avoid to readahead the unrelated
> swap slots.  At the same time, the swap readahead is changed to work
> on per-VMA from globally.  So that the different access patterns of
> the different VMAs could be distinguished, and the different readahead
> policy could be applied accordingly.  The original core readahead
> detection and scaling algorithm is reused, because it is an effect
> algorithm to detect the space locality.

Andrew,

Every zram users like low-end android device has used 0 page-cluster
to disable swap readahead because it has no seek cost and works as
synchronous IO operation so if we do readahead multiple pages,
swap falut latency would be (4K * readahead window size). IOW,
readahead is meaningful only if it doesn't bother faulted page's
latency.

However, this patch introduces additional knob /sys/kernel/mm/swap/
vma_ra_max_order as well as page-cluster. It means existing users
has used disabled swap readahead doesn't work until they should be
aware of new knob and modification of their script/code to disable
vma_ra_max_order as well as page-cluster.

I say it's a *regression* and wanted to fix it but Huang's opinion
is that it's not a functional regression so userspace should be fixed
by themselves.
Please look into detail of discussion in
http://lkml.kernel.org/r/%3C1505183833-4739-4-git-send-email-minchan@kernel.org%3E

The discussion is never productive so it's time to follow maintainer's
opinion. Could you share your opinion?

Thanks.

  reply	other threads:[~2017-09-13  1:40 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 38+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2017-08-07  5:40 [PATCH -mm -v4 0/5] mm, swap: VMA based swap readahead Huang, Ying
2017-08-07  5:40 ` Huang, Ying
2017-08-07  5:40 ` [PATCH -mm -v4 1/5] mm, swap: Add swap readahead hit statistics Huang, Ying
2017-08-07  5:40   ` Huang, Ying
2017-08-09 21:50   ` Andrew Morton
2017-08-09 21:50     ` Andrew Morton
2017-08-09 23:17     ` Huang, Ying
2017-08-09 23:17       ` Huang, Ying
2017-08-07  5:40 ` [PATCH -mm -v4 2/5] mm, swap: Fix swap readahead marking Huang, Ying
2017-08-07  5:40   ` Huang, Ying
2017-08-07  5:40 ` [PATCH -mm -v4 3/5] mm, swap: VMA based swap readahead Huang, Ying
2017-08-07  5:40   ` Huang, Ying
2017-09-13  1:40   ` Minchan Kim [this message]
2017-09-13  1:40     ` Minchan Kim
2017-09-13 21:02     ` Andrew Morton
2017-09-13 21:02       ` Andrew Morton
2017-09-14  0:53       ` Huang, Ying
2017-09-14  0:53         ` Huang, Ying
2017-09-14  8:15         ` Minchan Kim
2017-09-14  8:15           ` Minchan Kim
2017-09-14  7:53       ` Minchan Kim
2017-09-14  7:53         ` Minchan Kim
2017-09-14 12:01         ` Huang, Ying
2017-09-14 12:01           ` Huang, Ying
2017-09-14 13:14           ` Minchan Kim
2017-09-14 13:14             ` Minchan Kim
2017-09-14 21:21             ` Andrew Morton
2017-09-14 21:21               ` Andrew Morton
2017-09-15  3:15             ` Huang, Ying
2017-09-15  3:15               ` Huang, Ying
2017-09-15  3:42               ` Minchan Kim
2017-09-15  3:42                 ` Minchan Kim
2017-09-15  4:46                 ` Huang, Ying
2017-09-15  4:46                   ` Huang, Ying
2017-08-07  5:40 ` [PATCH -mm -v4 4/5] mm, swap: Add sysfs interface for " Huang, Ying
2017-08-07  5:40   ` Huang, Ying
2017-08-07  5:40 ` [PATCH -mm -v4 5/5] mm, swap: Don't use VMA based swap readahead if HDD is used as swap Huang, Ying
2017-08-07  5:40   ` Huang, Ying

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=20170913014019.GB29422@bbox \
    --to=minchan@kernel.org \
    --cc=akpm@linux-foundation.org \
    --cc=dave.hansen@intel.com \
    --cc=fengguang.wu@intel.com \
    --cc=hannes@cmpxchg.org \
    --cc=hughd@google.com \
    --cc=linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=linux-mm@kvack.org \
    --cc=riel@redhat.com \
    --cc=shli@kernel.org \
    --cc=tim.c.chen@intel.com \
    --cc=ying.huang@intel.com \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is an external index of several public inboxes,
see mirroring instructions on how to clone and mirror
all data and code used by this external index.