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From: Alan Cox <gnomes@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>
To: Gary Lin <glin@suse.com>
Cc: linux-efi@vger.kernel.org,
	Ard Biesheuvel <ard.biesheuvel@linaro.org>,
	Matt Fleming <matt@codeblueprint.co.uk>,
	Catalin Marinas <catalin.marinas@arm.com>,
	x86@kernel.org, Will Deacon <will.deacon@arm.com>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Joey Lee <jlee@suse.com>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>, "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org
Subject: Re: [RFC v3 PATCH 0/2] Introduce Security Version to EFI Stub
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2017 14:26:57 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20171207142657.52e1363a@alans-desktop> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20171205100148.5757-1-glin@suse.com>

On Tue,  5 Dec 2017 18:01:46 +0800
Gary Lin <glin@suse.com> wrote:

> The series of patches introduce Security Version to EFI stub.
> 
> Security Version is a monotonically increasing number and designed to
> prevent the user from loading an insecure kernel accidentally. The
> bootloader maintains a list of security versions corresponding to
> different distributions. After fixing a critical vulnerability, the
> distribution kernel maintainer bumps the "version", and the bootloader
> updates the list automatically. 

This seems a mindbogglingly complicated way to implement something you
could do with a trivial script in the package that updates the list of
iffy kernels and when generating the new grub.conf puts them in a menu
of 'old insecure' kernels.

Why do you even need this in the EFI stub ?

What happens if you want to invalidate an old kernel but not push a new
one ? Today if you've got a package that maintains the list of 'iffy'
kernels you can push a tiny package, under your scheme you've got to push
new kernels which is an un-necessary and high risk OS change.

It just feels like an attempt to solve the problem in completely the
wrong place.

Alan

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: gnomes@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk (Alan Cox)
To: linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org
Subject: [RFC v3 PATCH 0/2] Introduce Security Version to EFI Stub
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2017 14:26:57 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20171207142657.52e1363a@alans-desktop> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20171205100148.5757-1-glin@suse.com>

On Tue,  5 Dec 2017 18:01:46 +0800
Gary Lin <glin@suse.com> wrote:

> The series of patches introduce Security Version to EFI stub.
> 
> Security Version is a monotonically increasing number and designed to
> prevent the user from loading an insecure kernel accidentally. The
> bootloader maintains a list of security versions corresponding to
> different distributions. After fixing a critical vulnerability, the
> distribution kernel maintainer bumps the "version", and the bootloader
> updates the list automatically. 

This seems a mindbogglingly complicated way to implement something you
could do with a trivial script in the package that updates the list of
iffy kernels and when generating the new grub.conf puts them in a menu
of 'old insecure' kernels.

Why do you even need this in the EFI stub ?

What happens if you want to invalidate an old kernel but not push a new
one ? Today if you've got a package that maintains the list of 'iffy'
kernels you can push a tiny package, under your scheme you've got to push
new kernels which is an un-necessary and high risk OS change.

It just feels like an attempt to solve the problem in completely the
wrong place.

Alan

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Alan Cox <gnomes@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>
To: Gary Lin <glin@suse.com>
Cc: x86@kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-efi@vger.kernel.org, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org,
	"H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	Ard Biesheuvel <ard.biesheuvel@linaro.org>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>,
	Matt Fleming <matt@codeblueprint.co.uk>,
	Catalin Marinas <catalin.marinas@arm.com>,
	Will Deacon <will.deacon@arm.com>, Joey Lee <jlee@suse.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC v3 PATCH 0/2] Introduce Security Version to EFI Stub
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2017 14:26:57 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20171207142657.52e1363a@alans-desktop> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20171205100148.5757-1-glin@suse.com>

On Tue,  5 Dec 2017 18:01:46 +0800
Gary Lin <glin@suse.com> wrote:

> The series of patches introduce Security Version to EFI stub.
> 
> Security Version is a monotonically increasing number and designed to
> prevent the user from loading an insecure kernel accidentally. The
> bootloader maintains a list of security versions corresponding to
> different distributions. After fixing a critical vulnerability, the
> distribution kernel maintainer bumps the "version", and the bootloader
> updates the list automatically. 

This seems a mindbogglingly complicated way to implement something you
could do with a trivial script in the package that updates the list of
iffy kernels and when generating the new grub.conf puts them in a menu
of 'old insecure' kernels.

Why do you even need this in the EFI stub ?

What happens if you want to invalidate an old kernel but not push a new
one ? Today if you've got a package that maintains the list of 'iffy'
kernels you can push a tiny package, under your scheme you've got to push
new kernels which is an un-necessary and high risk OS change.

It just feels like an attempt to solve the problem in completely the
wrong place.

Alan

  parent reply	other threads:[~2017-12-07 14:26 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 40+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2017-12-05 10:01 [RFC v3 PATCH 0/2] Introduce Security Version to EFI Stub Gary Lin
2017-12-05 10:01 ` Gary Lin
2017-12-05 10:01 ` Gary Lin
2017-12-05 10:01 ` [RFC v3 PATCH 1/2] x86/efi: Introduce Security Version to x86 Gary Lin
2017-12-05 10:01   ` Gary Lin
2017-12-05 10:01 ` [RFC v3 PATCH 2/2] arm64/efi: Introduce Security Version to ARM64 Gary Lin
2017-12-05 10:01   ` Gary Lin
2017-12-05 10:01   ` Gary Lin
     [not found] ` <20171205100148.5757-1-glin-IBi9RG/b67k@public.gmane.org>
2017-12-05 21:14   ` [RFC v3 PATCH 0/2] Introduce Security Version to EFI Stub Josh Boyer
2017-12-05 21:14     ` Josh Boyer
2017-12-05 21:14     ` Josh Boyer
     [not found]     ` <CA+5PVA4k9RN22i2d=4GCPnm9bwi5KUgp8PiV=9X1pBZxN1xPmg-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2017-12-06  3:24       ` Gary Lin
2017-12-06  3:24         ` Gary Lin
2017-12-06  3:24         ` Gary Lin
2017-12-06 18:37         ` Ingo Molnar
2017-12-06 18:37           ` Ingo Molnar
2017-12-06 18:37           ` Ingo Molnar
2017-12-07  1:59           ` Gary Lin
2017-12-07  1:59             ` Gary Lin
2017-12-07  6:09             ` Ingo Molnar
2017-12-07  6:09               ` Ingo Molnar
2017-12-07  7:52               ` Gary Lin
2017-12-07  7:52                 ` Gary Lin
2017-12-07  8:18                 ` Ingo Molnar
2017-12-07  8:18                   ` Ingo Molnar
2017-12-07  8:18                   ` Ingo Molnar
     [not found]                   ` <20171207081816.jy2rw5y5iyxeqw6n-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2017-12-07 10:27                     ` Gary Lin
2017-12-07 10:27                       ` Gary Lin
2017-12-07 10:27                       ` Gary Lin
2017-12-07 10:35                       ` Ingo Molnar
2017-12-07 10:35                         ` Ingo Molnar
2017-12-07 10:35                         ` Ingo Molnar
2017-12-08  9:00                         ` Gary Lin
2017-12-08  9:00                           ` Gary Lin
2017-12-07 14:26 ` Alan Cox [this message]
2017-12-07 14:26   ` Alan Cox
2017-12-07 14:26   ` Alan Cox
2017-12-08 10:03   ` Gary Lin
2017-12-08 10:03     ` Gary Lin
2017-12-08 10:03     ` Gary Lin

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