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From: Pavel Machek <pavel@ucw.cz>
To: Michal Hocko <mhocko@kernel.org>
Cc: Cyril Hrubis <chrubis@suse.cz>,
	John Hubbard <jhubbard@nvidia.com>,
	Michael Kerrisk <mtk.manpages@gmail.com>,
	linux-man <linux-man@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-api@vger.kernel.org, Michael Ellerman <mpe@ellerman.id.au>,
	linux-mm@kvack.org, LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-arch@vger.kernel.org, Jann Horn <jannh@google.com>,
	Matthew Wilcox <willy@infradead.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2] mmap.2: MAP_FIXED updated documentation
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 18:19:58 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20171209171958.GB19862@localhost> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20171207140221.GJ20234@dhcp22.suse.cz>

On Thu 2017-12-07 15:02:21, Michal Hocko wrote:
> On Thu 07-12-17 13:58:05, Cyril Hrubis wrote:
> > Hi!
> > > >> (It does seem unfortunate that the man page cannot help the programmer
> > > >> actually write correct code here. He or she is forced to read the kernel
> > > >> implementation, in order to figure out the true alignment rules. I was
> > > >> hoping we could avoid that.)
> > > > 
> > > > It would be nice if we had this information exported somehere so that we
> > > > do not have to rely on per-architecture ifdefs.
> > > > 
> > > > What about adding MapAligment or something similar to the /proc/meminfo?
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > What's the use case you envision for that? I don't see how that would be
> > > better than using SHMLBA, which is available at compiler time. Because 
> > > unless someone expects to be able to run an app that was compiled for 
> > > Arch X, on Arch Y (surely that's not requirement here?), I don't see how
> > > the run-time check is any better.
> > 
> > I guess that some kind of compile time constant in uapi headers will do
> > as well, I'm really open to any solution that would expose this constant
> > as some kind of official API.
> 
> I am not sure this is really feasible. It is not only a simple alignment
> thing. Look at ppc for example (slice_get_unmapped_area). Other
> architectures might have even more complicated rules e.g. arm and its
> cache_is_vipt_aliasing. Also this applies only on MAP_SHARED || file
> backed mappings.
> 
> I would really leave dogs sleeping... Trying to document all this in the
> man page has chances to confuse more people than it has chances to help
> those who already know all these nasty details.

You don't have to provide all the details, but warning that there's arch-
specific magic would be nice...
								Pavel

(english) http://www.livejournal.com/~pavelmachek
(cesky, pictures) http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/picture/horses/blog.html

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WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Pavel Machek <pavel@ucw.cz>
To: Michal Hocko <mhocko@kernel.org>
Cc: Cyril Hrubis <chrubis@suse.cz>,
	John Hubbard <jhubbard@nvidia.com>,
	Michael Kerrisk <mtk.manpages@gmail.com>,
	linux-man <linux-man@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-api@vger.kernel.org, Michael Ellerman <mpe@ellerman.id.au>,
	linux-mm@kvack.org, LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-arch@vger.kernel.org, Jann Horn <jannh@google.com>,
	Matthew Wilcox <willy@infradead.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2] mmap.2: MAP_FIXED updated documentation
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 18:19:58 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20171209171958.GB19862@localhost> (raw)
Message-ID: <20171209171958.y0PrL-AAyg7rpmStv_sQIxClJo3ofIUChfUqqTDgqf0@z> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20171207140221.GJ20234@dhcp22.suse.cz>

On Thu 2017-12-07 15:02:21, Michal Hocko wrote:
> On Thu 07-12-17 13:58:05, Cyril Hrubis wrote:
> > Hi!
> > > >> (It does seem unfortunate that the man page cannot help the programmer
> > > >> actually write correct code here. He or she is forced to read the kernel
> > > >> implementation, in order to figure out the true alignment rules. I was
> > > >> hoping we could avoid that.)
> > > > 
> > > > It would be nice if we had this information exported somehere so that we
> > > > do not have to rely on per-architecture ifdefs.
> > > > 
> > > > What about adding MapAligment or something similar to the /proc/meminfo?
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > What's the use case you envision for that? I don't see how that would be
> > > better than using SHMLBA, which is available at compiler time. Because 
> > > unless someone expects to be able to run an app that was compiled for 
> > > Arch X, on Arch Y (surely that's not requirement here?), I don't see how
> > > the run-time check is any better.
> > 
> > I guess that some kind of compile time constant in uapi headers will do
> > as well, I'm really open to any solution that would expose this constant
> > as some kind of official API.
> 
> I am not sure this is really feasible. It is not only a simple alignment
> thing. Look at ppc for example (slice_get_unmapped_area). Other
> architectures might have even more complicated rules e.g. arm and its
> cache_is_vipt_aliasing. Also this applies only on MAP_SHARED || file
> backed mappings.
> 
> I would really leave dogs sleeping... Trying to document all this in the
> man page has chances to confuse more people than it has chances to help
> those who already know all these nasty details.

You don't have to provide all the details, but warning that there's arch-
specific magic would be nice...
								Pavel

(english) http://www.livejournal.com/~pavelmachek
(cesky, pictures) http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/picture/horses/blog.html

  reply	other threads:[~2017-12-09 17:19 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 44+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2017-12-04  2:14 [PATCH v2] mmap.2: MAP_FIXED updated documentation john.hubbard
2017-12-04  2:14 ` john.hubbard
     [not found] ` <20171204021411.4786-1-jhubbard-DDmLM1+adcrQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2017-12-04 10:55   ` Cyril Hrubis
2017-12-04 10:55     ` Cyril Hrubis
2017-12-04 10:55     ` Cyril Hrubis
2017-12-05  2:14     ` John Hubbard
2017-12-05  2:14       ` John Hubbard
2017-12-05  2:14       ` John Hubbard
     [not found]       ` <efb6eae4-7f30-42c3-0efe-0ab5fbf0fdb4-DDmLM1+adcrQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2017-12-05  7:05         ` Michal Hocko
2017-12-05  7:05           ` Michal Hocko
2017-12-05  7:05           ` Michal Hocko
2017-12-05  7:42           ` John Hubbard
2017-12-05  7:42             ` John Hubbard
2017-12-05  7:42             ` John Hubbard
2017-12-05  8:52             ` Michal Hocko
2017-12-05  8:52               ` Michal Hocko
     [not found]             ` <2cff594a-b481-269d-dd91-ff2cc2f4100a-DDmLM1+adcrQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2017-12-06 10:01               ` Cyril Hrubis
2017-12-06 10:01                 ` Cyril Hrubis
2017-12-06 10:01                 ` Cyril Hrubis
2017-12-06 21:21                 ` John Hubbard
2017-12-06 21:21                   ` John Hubbard
2017-12-06 21:21                   ` John Hubbard
2017-12-06 21:21                   ` John Hubbard
2017-12-07 12:58                   ` Cyril Hrubis
2017-12-07 12:58                     ` Cyril Hrubis
2017-12-07 14:02                     ` Michal Hocko
2017-12-07 14:02                       ` Michal Hocko
2017-12-09 17:19                       ` Pavel Machek [this message]
2017-12-09 17:19                         ` Pavel Machek
2017-12-10  7:44                         ` John Hubbard
2017-12-10  7:44                           ` John Hubbard
2017-12-10  7:44                           ` John Hubbard
2017-12-04 11:31   ` Mike Rapoport
2017-12-04 11:31     ` Mike Rapoport
2017-12-04 11:31     ` Mike Rapoport
2017-12-05  2:52     ` John Hubbard
2017-12-05  2:52       ` John Hubbard
2017-12-05  2:52       ` John Hubbard
     [not found]       ` <6777116d-ad9e-48c9-0009-01d10274135e-DDmLM1+adcrQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2017-12-05  7:08         ` Michal Hocko
2017-12-05  7:08           ` Michal Hocko
2017-12-05  7:08           ` Michal Hocko
2017-12-05  7:43           ` John Hubbard
2017-12-05  7:43             ` John Hubbard
2017-12-05  7:43             ` John Hubbard

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