From: Al Viro <viro@ZenIV.linux.org.uk>
To: NeilBrown <neil@brown.name>
Cc: ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org,
Mishi Choudhary <mishi@linux.com>,
Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>,
linux-kernel <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [Ksummit-discuss] Call to Action Re: [PATCH 0/7] Code of Conduct: Fix some wording, and add an interpretation document
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2018 05:52:47 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20181023045247.GV32577@ZenIV.linux.org.uk> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87r2gh70ij.fsf@notabene.neil.brown.name>
On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 03:25:08PM +1100, NeilBrown wrote:
> >> If Linus is not true to his new-found sensitivity, we might need someone
> >> (Greg?) to be a co-maintainer, able to accept patches when Linus has a
> >> relapse. It might be good form to create this channel anyway, but I
> >> doubt it would be needed in practice.
> >>
> >> So there you have it. The "Code" is upside down.
> >> We need documents which:
> >> - curtail the power of the strong, starting with Linus
> >> - are adopted willingly by individuals, not imposed on the community.
> >> - provide alternate routes for patch-flow, so that no-one has ultimate
> >> power.
> >
> > Really? The ultimate power being to say "No" to a patch, and nobody should
> > have such? Are you fucking serious?
>
> I have noticed of late a tendency in all sorts of different people to
> hear/read a statement from someone they know, interpret it a particular
> way, be surprised about that interpretation, and persist with believing
> that interpretation anyway, rather than realizing that the most likely
> explanation is a communication failure, and asking for clarification.
>
> The "ultimate power" is the ability to say "no" to a patch, *with no
> opportunity for review*. Two people together having that ultimate power
> is a totally different thing to one person having it alone.
If that's a clarification, I'm sorry to say that I understand you even less now.
What are you proposing? Duopoly? How do you deal with disagreements? Fork?
Revert wars?
Frankly, CoC as-is is a bloody awful idea wide-open to abuses, but what you
are proposing feels even more incoherent...
WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Al Viro <viro@ZenIV.linux.org.uk>
To: NeilBrown <neil@brown.name>
Cc: Josh Triplett <josh@joshtriplett.org>,
Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>,
linux-kernel <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org,
Mishi Choudhary <mishi@linux.com>
Subject: Re: [Ksummit-discuss] Call to Action Re: [PATCH 0/7] Code of Conduct: Fix some wording, and add an interpretation document
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2018 05:52:47 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20181023045247.GV32577@ZenIV.linux.org.uk> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87r2gh70ij.fsf@notabene.neil.brown.name>
On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 03:25:08PM +1100, NeilBrown wrote:
> >> If Linus is not true to his new-found sensitivity, we might need someone
> >> (Greg?) to be a co-maintainer, able to accept patches when Linus has a
> >> relapse. It might be good form to create this channel anyway, but I
> >> doubt it would be needed in practice.
> >>
> >> So there you have it. The "Code" is upside down.
> >> We need documents which:
> >> - curtail the power of the strong, starting with Linus
> >> - are adopted willingly by individuals, not imposed on the community.
> >> - provide alternate routes for patch-flow, so that no-one has ultimate
> >> power.
> >
> > Really? The ultimate power being to say "No" to a patch, and nobody should
> > have such? Are you fucking serious?
>
> I have noticed of late a tendency in all sorts of different people to
> hear/read a statement from someone they know, interpret it a particular
> way, be surprised about that interpretation, and persist with believing
> that interpretation anyway, rather than realizing that the most likely
> explanation is a communication failure, and asking for clarification.
>
> The "ultimate power" is the ability to say "no" to a patch, *with no
> opportunity for review*. Two people together having that ultimate power
> is a totally different thing to one person having it alone.
If that's a clarification, I'm sorry to say that I understand you even less now.
What are you proposing? Duopoly? How do you deal with disagreements? Fork?
Revert wars?
Frankly, CoC as-is is a bloody awful idea wide-open to abuses, but what you
are proposing feels even more incoherent...
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2018-10-23 4:52 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 177+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2018-10-20 13:49 [Ksummit-discuss] [PATCH 0/7] Code of Conduct: Fix some wording, and add an interpretation document Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-10-20 13:49 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-10-20 13:49 ` [Ksummit-discuss] [PATCH 1/7] Code of conduct: Fix wording around maintainers enforcing the code of conduct Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-10-20 13:49 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-10-20 13:50 ` [Ksummit-discuss] [PATCH 2/7] Code of Conduct Interpretation: Add document explaining how the Code of Conduct is to be interpreted Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-10-20 13:50 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-10-20 13:50 ` [Ksummit-discuss] [PATCH 3/7] Code of Conduct Interpretation: Properly reference the TAB correctly Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-10-20 13:50 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-10-20 13:50 ` [Ksummit-discuss] [PATCH 4/7] Code of Conduct: Provide links between the two documents Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-10-20 13:50 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-10-20 13:50 ` [Ksummit-discuss] [PATCH 5/7] Code of Conduct Interpretation: Put in the proper URL for the committee Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-10-20 13:50 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-10-20 19:01 ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Geert Uytterhoeven
2018-10-20 19:01 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2018-10-21 7:18 ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Greg KH
2018-10-21 7:18 ` Greg KH
2018-10-20 13:51 ` [Ksummit-discuss] [PATCH 6/7] Code of Conduct: Change the contact email address Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-10-20 13:51 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-10-20 18:28 ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Alan Cox
2018-10-20 18:28 ` Alan Cox
2018-10-20 18:45 ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Trond Myklebust
2018-10-20 18:45 ` Trond Myklebust
2018-10-20 19:14 ` jonsmirl
2018-10-20 19:14 ` jonsmirl
2018-10-21 8:27 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-10-21 8:27 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-10-21 9:23 ` Greg KH
2018-10-21 9:23 ` Greg KH
2018-10-20 19:24 ` Tim.Bird
2018-10-20 19:24 ` Tim.Bird
2018-10-20 20:07 ` Trond Myklebust
2018-10-20 20:07 ` Trond Myklebust
2018-10-21 0:13 ` Alan Cox
2018-10-21 0:13 ` Alan Cox
2018-10-21 6:19 ` Thomas Gleixner
2018-10-21 6:19 ` Thomas Gleixner
2018-10-20 20:13 ` James Bottomley
2018-10-20 20:13 ` James Bottomley
2018-10-20 13:51 ` [Ksummit-discuss] [PATCH 7/7] MAINTAINERS: Add an entry for the code of conduct Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-10-20 13:51 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-10-21 21:20 ` [Ksummit-discuss] Call to Action Re: [PATCH 0/7] Code of Conduct: Fix some wording, and add an interpretation document NeilBrown
2018-10-21 21:20 ` NeilBrown
2018-10-21 22:26 ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Josh Triplett
2018-10-21 22:26 ` Josh Triplett
2018-10-21 23:37 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-10-21 23:37 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-10-23 1:44 ` NeilBrown
2018-10-22 20:26 ` NeilBrown
2018-10-22 20:26 ` NeilBrown
2018-10-22 22:46 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-10-22 22:46 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-10-23 1:31 ` NeilBrown
2018-10-23 1:31 ` NeilBrown
2018-10-23 6:26 ` Dan Carpenter
2018-10-23 6:40 ` Al Viro
2018-10-23 6:40 ` Al Viro
2018-10-23 6:46 ` Dan Carpenter
2018-10-23 6:46 ` Dan Carpenter
2018-10-23 3:31 ` Al Viro
2018-10-23 3:31 ` Al Viro
2018-10-23 4:25 ` NeilBrown
2018-10-23 4:25 ` NeilBrown
2018-10-23 4:52 ` Al Viro [this message]
2018-10-23 4:52 ` Al Viro
2018-10-23 5:28 ` NeilBrown
2018-10-23 5:28 ` NeilBrown
2018-10-23 6:00 ` Al Viro
2018-10-23 6:00 ` Al Viro
2018-10-23 20:45 ` NeilBrown
2018-10-23 20:45 ` NeilBrown
2018-10-23 8:11 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-10-23 8:11 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-10-23 14:22 ` Rainer Fiebig
2018-10-23 14:22 ` Rainer Fiebig
2018-10-23 15:43 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-10-23 15:43 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-10-23 17:51 ` Rainer Fiebig
2018-10-23 21:14 ` NeilBrown
2018-10-23 21:14 ` NeilBrown
2018-10-24 12:16 ` Josh Triplett
2018-10-24 12:16 ` Josh Triplett
2018-10-25 21:14 ` NeilBrown
2018-10-25 21:14 ` NeilBrown
2018-10-27 1:10 ` Josh Triplett
2018-10-27 1:10 ` Josh Triplett
2018-10-28 21:48 ` NeilBrown
2018-10-28 21:48 ` NeilBrown
2018-11-01 16:45 ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-11-01 16:45 ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-11-01 21:11 ` Josh Triplett
2018-11-01 21:11 ` Josh Triplett
2018-11-02 13:13 ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-11-02 13:13 ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-11-01 21:50 ` NeilBrown
2018-11-02 13:33 ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-11-02 13:33 ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-11-03 8:36 ` NeilBrown
2018-11-03 8:36 ` NeilBrown
2018-11-03 17:37 ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-11-03 17:37 ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-11-03 21:06 ` NeilBrown
2018-11-03 21:06 ` NeilBrown
2018-11-03 22:23 ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-11-03 22:23 ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-11-02 13:52 ` James Bottomley
2018-11-03 9:19 ` Eric S. Raymond
2018-11-04 10:35 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2018-11-04 10:35 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2018-10-21 22:33 ` Joe Perches
2018-10-21 22:33 ` Joe Perches
2018-10-21 22:37 ` Randy Dunlap
2018-10-21 22:37 ` Randy Dunlap
2018-10-22 9:09 ` Rainer Fiebig
2018-10-22 9:09 ` Rainer Fiebig
2018-10-22 11:02 ` [Ksummit-discuss] " James Bottomley
2018-10-22 11:02 ` James Bottomley
2018-10-24 8:49 ` Laura Abbott
2018-10-24 8:49 ` Laura Abbott
2018-10-25 7:56 ` The linux devs can rescind their license grant visionsofalice
2018-10-25 8:19 ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-10-25 8:19 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-10-25 19:39 ` Eric S. Raymond
2018-10-25 20:47 ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-10-25 20:47 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-10-25 21:41 ` Eric S. Raymond
2018-10-25 22:12 ` [Ksummit-discuss] " NeilBrown
2018-10-25 22:12 ` NeilBrown
2018-10-25 22:38 ` Eric S. Raymond
2018-10-25 22:52 ` [Ksummit-discuss] " NeilBrown
2018-10-25 22:52 ` NeilBrown
2018-11-04 10:47 ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Geert Uytterhoeven
2018-11-04 10:47 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2018-10-25 23:06 ` Al Viro
2018-10-25 23:06 ` Al Viro
2018-10-26 2:28 ` Eric S. Raymond
2018-10-26 5:49 ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Al Viro
2018-10-26 5:49 ` Al Viro
2018-10-27 6:52 ` visionsofalice
2018-10-27 7:32 ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Al Viro
2018-10-27 7:32 ` Al Viro
2018-10-27 16:18 ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Tim.Bird
2018-10-27 16:18 ` Tim.Bird
2018-10-27 22:09 ` Jiri Kosina
2018-10-27 22:09 ` Jiri Kosina
[not found] ` <CAK2MWOtNUTjWy5pTcGco5DNurqNCc=9CfDJ-Ko-K+6HDC55ikg@mail.gmail.com>
2018-10-27 23:07 ` Eric S. Raymond
2018-10-27 23:40 ` Al Viro
2018-10-27 23:40 ` Al Viro
2018-10-28 21:13 ` NeilBrown
2018-10-28 21:13 ` NeilBrown
2018-10-25 23:32 ` Iván Chavero
2018-10-26 13:15 ` Eben Moglen
2018-10-26 15:50 ` Eric S. Raymond
2018-10-26 15:53 ` Eben Moglen
2018-10-26 17:32 ` visionsofalice
2018-10-26 18:31 ` Eben Moglen
2018-10-27 7:12 ` visionsofalice
2018-12-18 18:53 ` The linux devs can rescind their license grant. - Analysis published? visionsofalice
2018-10-26 10:34 ` The linux devs can rescind their license grant visionsofalice
2018-10-29 22:31 ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Bradley M. Kuhn
2018-10-29 22:31 ` Bradley M. Kuhn
2018-12-18 19:17 ` visionsofalice
2018-10-27 5:04 ` The linux devs can rescind their license grant. - Additional restrictive terms visionsofalice
2018-12-18 20:55 ` The CoC regime is a License violation " visionsofalice
2018-12-19 1:17 ` visionsofalice
2018-12-23 16:05 ` visionsofalice
2018-10-25 22:02 ` [Ksummit-discuss] Call to Action Re: [PATCH 0/7] Code of Conduct: Fix some wording, and add an interpretation document NeilBrown
2018-10-25 22:02 ` NeilBrown
2018-10-25 8:06 ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Pavel Machek
2018-10-25 8:06 ` Pavel Machek
2018-10-25 11:20 ` Rainer Fiebig
2018-10-25 22:18 ` [Ksummit-discuss] " NeilBrown
2018-10-25 22:18 ` NeilBrown
2018-10-26 8:33 ` Rainer Fiebig
2018-10-26 22:40 ` [Ksummit-discuss] " NeilBrown
2018-10-26 22:40 ` NeilBrown
2018-10-27 11:49 ` Rainer Fiebig
2018-10-21 23:36 ` Eric S. Raymond
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