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From: Pavel Machek <pavel@ucw.cz>
To: Dan Williams <dan.j.williams@intel.com>
Cc: Dave Jiang <dave.jiang@intel.com>,
	ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org,
	Ross Zwisler <zwisler@kernel.org>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-nvdimm@lists.01.org,
	Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>,
	Steve French <stfrench@microsoft.com>,
	Vishal Verma <vishal.l.verma@intel.com>,
	Mauro Carvalho Chehab <mchehab@kernel.org>,
	Dmitry Vyukov <dvyukov@google.com>,
	"Tobin C. Harding" <me@tobin.cc>
Subject: Re: [Ksummit-discuss] [RFC PATCH 0/3] Maintainer Handbook: Subsystem Profile
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2018 11:57:54 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20181125105754.GB25471@amd> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <154225759358.2499188.15268218778137905050.stgit@dwillia2-desk3.amr.corp.intel.com>

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On Wed 2018-11-14 20:53:13, Dan Williams wrote:
> At a recently concluded session at the Linux Plumbers Conference I
> proposed a "Subsystem Profile" as a document that a maintainer can
> provide to set contributor expectations and provide fodder for a
> discussion between maintainers about the merits of different maintainer
> policies.
> 
> For those that did not attend, the goal of the Subsystem Profile, and the
> Maintainer Handbook more generally, is to provide a desk reference for
> maintainers both new and experienced. The session introduction was:
> 
>     The first rule of kernel maintenance is that there are no hard and
>     fast rules. That state of affairs is both a blessing and a curse. It
>     has served the community well to be adaptable to the different
>     people and different problem spaces that inhabit the kernel
>     community. However, that variability also leads to inconsistent
>     experiences for contributors, little to no guidance for new
>     contributors, and unnecessary stress on current maintainers. There
>     are quite a few of people who have been around long enough to make
>     enough mistakes that they have gained some hard earned proficiency.
>     However if the kernel community expects to keep growing it needs to
>     be able both scale the maintainers it has and ramp new ones without
>     necessarily let them make a decades worth of mistakes to learn the
>     ropes. 
> 
> To be clear, the proposed document does not impose or suggest new
> rules. Instead it provides an outlet to document the unwritten rules
> and policies in effect for each subsystem, and that each subsystem
> might decide differently for whatever reason.

Sounds like a new rules to me :-(, making submitting simple patches
harder.

It would be good if the rules were similar / same accross the
subsystems, documenting "it is okay to be different" is not really helpful.


									Pavel
-- 
(english) http://www.livejournal.com/~pavelmachek
(cesky, pictures) http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/picture/horses/blog.html

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WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Pavel Machek <pavel@ucw.cz>
To: Dan Williams <dan.j.williams@intel.com>
Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	Mauro Carvalho Chehab <mchehab@kernel.org>,
	Dave Jiang <dave.jiang@intel.com>,
	Daniel Vetter <daniel.vetter@ffwll.ch>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	Dmitry Vyukov <dvyukov@google.com>,
	Vishal Verma <vishal.l.verma@intel.com>,
	Jonathan Corbet <corbet@lwn.net>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	Ross Zwisler <zwisler@kernel.org>, Joe Perches <joe@perches.com>,
	"Tobin C. Harding" <me@tobin.cc>,
	"Martin K. Petersen" <martin.petersen@oracle.com>,
	Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>,
	Steve French <stfrench@microsoft.com>,
	Olof Johansson <olof@lixom.net>,
	linux-nvdimm@lists.01.org,
	ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 0/3] Maintainer Handbook: Subsystem Profile
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2018 11:57:54 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20181125105754.GB25471@amd> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <154225759358.2499188.15268218778137905050.stgit@dwillia2-desk3.amr.corp.intel.com>

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On Wed 2018-11-14 20:53:13, Dan Williams wrote:
> At a recently concluded session at the Linux Plumbers Conference I
> proposed a "Subsystem Profile" as a document that a maintainer can
> provide to set contributor expectations and provide fodder for a
> discussion between maintainers about the merits of different maintainer
> policies.
> 
> For those that did not attend, the goal of the Subsystem Profile, and the
> Maintainer Handbook more generally, is to provide a desk reference for
> maintainers both new and experienced. The session introduction was:
> 
>     The first rule of kernel maintenance is that there are no hard and
>     fast rules. That state of affairs is both a blessing and a curse. It
>     has served the community well to be adaptable to the different
>     people and different problem spaces that inhabit the kernel
>     community. However, that variability also leads to inconsistent
>     experiences for contributors, little to no guidance for new
>     contributors, and unnecessary stress on current maintainers. There
>     are quite a few of people who have been around long enough to make
>     enough mistakes that they have gained some hard earned proficiency.
>     However if the kernel community expects to keep growing it needs to
>     be able both scale the maintainers it has and ramp new ones without
>     necessarily let them make a decades worth of mistakes to learn the
>     ropes. 
> 
> To be clear, the proposed document does not impose or suggest new
> rules. Instead it provides an outlet to document the unwritten rules
> and policies in effect for each subsystem, and that each subsystem
> might decide differently for whatever reason.

Sounds like a new rules to me :-(, making submitting simple patches
harder.

It would be good if the rules were similar / same accross the
subsystems, documenting "it is okay to be different" is not really helpful.


									Pavel
-- 
(english) http://www.livejournal.com/~pavelmachek
(cesky, pictures) http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/picture/horses/blog.html

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  parent reply	other threads:[~2018-11-25 10:57 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 171+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-11-15  4:53 [Ksummit-discuss] [RFC PATCH 0/3] Maintainer Handbook: Subsystem Profile Dan Williams
2018-11-15  4:53 ` Dan Williams
2018-11-15  4:53 ` Dan Williams
2018-11-15  4:53 ` [Ksummit-discuss] [RFC PATCH 1/3] MAINTAINERS: Reclaim the P: tag for " Dan Williams
2018-11-15  4:53   ` Dan Williams
2018-11-15  4:53   ` Dan Williams
2018-11-15  5:39   ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2018-11-15  5:39     ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2018-11-15  5:39     ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2018-11-15 20:12     ` Joe Perches
2018-11-15 20:12       ` Joe Perches
2018-11-15 20:12       ` Joe Perches
2018-11-15  4:53 ` [Ksummit-discuss] [RFC PATCH 2/3] MAINTAINERS, Handbook: " Dan Williams
2018-11-15  4:53   ` Dan Williams
2018-11-15  4:53   ` Dan Williams
2018-11-15  5:48   ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Julia Lawall
2018-11-15  5:48     ` Julia Lawall
2018-11-15  5:48     ` Julia Lawall
2018-11-15  7:59     ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2018-11-15  7:59       ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2018-11-15  7:59       ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2018-11-15 13:47       ` Julia Lawall
2018-11-15 13:47         ` Julia Lawall
2018-11-15 13:47         ` Julia Lawall
2018-11-16 12:44         ` Jani Nikula
2018-11-16 12:44           ` Jani Nikula
2018-11-16 12:44           ` Jani Nikula
2018-11-16 17:56           ` Joe Perches
2018-11-16 17:56             ` Joe Perches
2018-11-16 17:56             ` Joe Perches
2018-11-17 14:12             ` Rob Herring
2018-11-17 14:12               ` Rob Herring
2018-11-17 14:12               ` Rob Herring
2018-11-17 17:03               ` Julia Lawall
2018-11-17 17:03                 ` Julia Lawall
2018-11-17 17:03                 ` Julia Lawall
2018-11-20  7:28             ` Jani Nikula
2018-11-20  7:28               ` Jani Nikula
2018-11-20  7:28               ` Jani Nikula
2018-11-15  5:49   ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2018-11-15  5:49     ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2018-11-15  5:49     ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2018-11-15  7:58   ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2018-11-15  7:58     ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2018-11-15  7:58     ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2018-11-15  8:38   ` Jani Nikula
2018-11-15  8:38     ` Jani Nikula
2018-11-15  8:38     ` Jani Nikula
2018-11-15 18:03     ` Tim.Bird
2018-11-15 18:03       ` Tim.Bird
2018-11-15 18:03       ` Tim.Bird
2018-11-15 23:56     ` Tobin C. Harding
2018-11-15 23:56       ` Tobin C. Harding
2018-11-15 23:56       ` Tobin C. Harding
2018-11-15 15:44   ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2018-11-15 15:44     ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2018-11-15 15:44     ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2018-11-16 23:28     ` Randy Dunlap
2018-11-16 23:28       ` Randy Dunlap
2018-11-16 23:28       ` Randy Dunlap
2018-11-17 11:57     ` Hans Verkuil
2018-11-17 11:57       ` Hans Verkuil
2018-11-17 11:57       ` Hans Verkuil
2018-11-16  0:11   ` Frank Rowand
2018-11-16  0:11     ` Frank Rowand
2018-11-16  0:11     ` Frank Rowand
2018-11-16 12:04     ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2018-11-16 12:04       ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2018-11-16 12:04       ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2018-11-16 18:57       ` Dan Williams
2018-11-16 18:57         ` Dan Williams
2018-11-16 18:57         ` Dan Williams
2018-11-18 12:58         ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2018-11-18 12:58           ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2018-11-18 12:58           ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2018-11-18 17:31           ` Dan Williams
2018-11-18 17:31             ` Dan Williams
2018-11-18 17:31             ` Dan Williams
2018-11-18 17:31             ` Dan Williams
2018-11-18 17:31               ` Dan Williams
2018-11-18 17:31               ` Dan Williams
2018-11-18 17:34               ` Dan Williams
2018-11-18 17:34                 ` Dan Williams
2018-11-18 17:34                 ` Dan Williams
2018-11-18 17:44                 ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2018-11-18 17:44                   ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2018-11-18 17:44                   ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2018-11-16 16:47     ` Frank Rowand
2018-11-16 16:47       ` Frank Rowand
2018-11-16 16:47       ` Frank Rowand
2018-11-15  4:53 ` [Ksummit-discuss] [RFC PATCH 3/3] libnvdimm, MAINTAINERS: " Dan Williams
2018-11-15  4:53   ` Dan Williams
2018-11-15  4:53   ` Dan Williams
2018-11-15  8:03   ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Geert Uytterhoeven
2018-11-15  8:03     ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2018-11-15  8:03     ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2018-11-15 14:10     ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2018-11-15 14:10       ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2018-11-15 14:10       ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2018-11-15 16:20       ` Leon Romanovsky
2018-11-15 16:20         ` Leon Romanovsky
2018-11-15 19:09         ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2018-11-15 19:09           ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2018-11-15 19:35           ` Leon Romanovsky
2018-11-15 19:35             ` Leon Romanovsky
2018-11-15 19:40             ` Luck, Tony
2018-11-15 19:40               ` Luck, Tony
2018-11-15 19:40               ` Luck, Tony
2018-11-15 19:43               ` Joe Perches
2018-11-15 19:43                 ` Joe Perches
2018-11-16 11:39                 ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2018-11-16 11:39                   ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2018-11-16 11:39                   ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2018-11-18  7:12                   ` Leon Romanovsky
2018-11-18  7:12                     ` Leon Romanovsky
2018-11-16 11:33             ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2018-11-16 11:33               ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2018-11-16 12:00               ` Jan Kara
2018-11-16 12:00                 ` Jan Kara
2018-11-16 12:00                 ` Jan Kara
2018-11-18  7:00               ` Leon Romanovsky
2018-11-16 20:36         ` Rodrigo Vivi
2018-11-16 20:36           ` Rodrigo Vivi
2018-11-16 20:36           ` Rodrigo Vivi
2018-11-16 23:44           ` Dan Williams
2018-11-16 23:44             ` Dan Williams
2018-11-16 23:44             ` Dan Williams
2018-11-17  0:38             ` NeilBrown
2018-11-17  0:38               ` NeilBrown
2018-11-18 13:11               ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2018-11-18 13:11                 ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2018-11-18 13:11                 ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2018-11-18 13:03             ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2018-11-18 13:03               ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2018-11-18 13:03               ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2018-11-20  8:10               ` Jani Nikula
2018-11-20  8:10                 ` Jani Nikula
2018-11-20 19:31                 ` Dan Williams
2018-11-20 19:31                   ` Dan Williams
2018-11-20 19:31                   ` Dan Williams
2018-11-26 11:12                 ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2018-11-26 11:12                   ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2018-11-26 11:12                   ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2018-11-26 15:55                   ` Joe Perches
2018-11-26 15:55                     ` Joe Perches
2018-11-26 15:55                     ` Joe Perches
2018-11-16 19:13     ` Dan Williams
2018-11-16 19:13       ` Dan Williams
2018-11-16 19:13       ` Dan Williams
2018-11-15 14:30   ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2018-11-15 14:30     ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2018-11-15 14:30     ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2018-11-15 14:51     ` Julia Lawall
2018-11-15 14:51       ` Julia Lawall
2018-11-15 14:51       ` Julia Lawall
2018-11-16 19:20     ` Dan Williams
2018-11-16 19:20       ` Dan Williams
2018-11-16 19:20       ` Dan Williams
2018-11-16  2:58   ` y-goto
2018-11-16  2:58     ` y-goto
2018-11-16  2:58     ` y-goto
2018-11-17  0:32   ` [Ksummit-discuss] " David Woodhouse
2018-11-17  0:32     ` David Woodhouse
2018-11-15  5:56 ` [Ksummit-discuss] [RFC PATCH 0/3] Maintainer Handbook: " Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2018-11-15  5:56   ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2018-11-15  5:56   ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2018-11-25 10:57 ` Pavel Machek [this message]
2018-11-25 10:57   ` Pavel Machek
2018-11-25 20:55   ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Dan Williams
2018-11-25 20:55     ` Dan Williams
2018-11-25 20:55     ` Dan Williams

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