Separate notifications from list messages?

Separate notifications from list messages?

[Liviu Ionescu]

Now, with the migration to GitLab under way, could you consider separating the notifications sent by GitLab from the messages exchanged on the list?


I mean allowing those interested in receiving the notifications to explicitly subscribe to them, and no longer sending all of them to the full list.


Regards,

Liviu

Re: Separate notifications from list messages?

[Thomas Huth]

On 09/07/2020 20.14, Liviu Ionescu wrote:
> Now, with the migration to GitLab under way, could you consider separating the notifications sent by GitLab from the messages exchanged on the list?
> 
> I mean allowing those interested in receiving the notifications to explicitly subscribe to them, and no longer sending all of them to the full list.

That's maybe a good idea. Stefan, Philippe, what do you think about
creating a qemu-notify mailing list for notification e-mails?

 Thomas

Re: Separate notifications from list messages?

[Liviu Ionescu]

> On 10 Jul 2020, at 07:19, Thomas Huth <thuth@redhat.com> wrote:
> 
> ... creating a qemu-notify mailing list for notification e-mails?

In GitHub it is possible to 'Watch' projects, and when doing so, you get various notifications.

Isn't something similar available in GitLab too?


Liviu

Re: Separate notifications from list messages?

[Peter Maydell]

On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 at 05:20, Thomas Huth <thuth@redhat.com> wrote:
>
> On 09/07/2020 20.14, Liviu Ionescu wrote:
> > Now, with the migration to GitLab under way, could you consider separating the notifications sent by GitLab from the messages exchanged on the list?
> >
> > I mean allowing those interested in receiving the notifications to explicitly subscribe to them, and no longer sending all of them to the full list.
>
> That's maybe a good idea. Stefan, Philippe, what do you think about
> creating a qemu-notify mailing list for notification e-mails?

What sort of notifications are we talking about here ?

thanks
-- PMM

Re: Separate notifications from list messages?

[Liviu Ionescu]

> On 10 Jul 2020, at 11:09, Peter Maydell <peter.maydell@linaro.org> wrote:
> 
> What sort of notifications are we talking about here ?

For example:

...
Received: from mg.gitlab.com (74.90.74.34.bc.googleusercontent.com
 [34.74.90.74]) by smtp-out-n18.prod.us-west-2.postgun.com with SMTP id
 5f074fb9a33b1a3dd4571072 (version=TLS1.3, cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256);
 Thu, 09 Jul 2020 17:11:21 GMT
Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2020 17:11:20 +0000
Message-ID: <5f074fb827f26_7cd93fa34d371dbc1570d@sidekiq-catchall-02-sv-gprd.mail>
Subject: QEMU | Pipeline #164899134 has failed for master | 3d7cad3c
Reply-to: GitLab <noreply@gitlab.com>, GitLab <gitlab@mg.gitlab.com>
From: GitLab via <qemu-devel@nongnu.org>
...

Regards,

Liviu

Re: Separate notifications from list messages?

[Peter Maydell]

On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 at 09:25, Liviu Ionescu <ilg@livius.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 10 Jul 2020, at 11:09, Peter Maydell <peter.maydell@linaro.org> wrote:
> >
> > What sort of notifications are we talking about here ?
>
> For example:
>
> ...
> Received: from mg.gitlab.com (74.90.74.34.bc.googleusercontent.com
>  [34.74.90.74]) by smtp-out-n18.prod.us-west-2.postgun.com with SMTP id
>  5f074fb9a33b1a3dd4571072 (version=TLS1.3, cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256);
>  Thu, 09 Jul 2020 17:11:21 GMT
> Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2020 17:11:20 +0000
> Message-ID: <5f074fb827f26_7cd93fa34d371dbc1570d@sidekiq-catchall-02-sv-gprd.mail>
> Subject: QEMU | Pipeline #164899134 has failed for master | 3d7cad3c
> Reply-to: GitLab <noreply@gitlab.com>, GitLab <gitlab@mg.gitlab.com>
> From: GitLab via <qemu-devel@nongnu.org>
> ...

Thanks; yeah, I've seen those go past. Do we expect any other
kinds to appear as we make more use of gitlab?

-- PMM

Re: Separate notifications from list messages?

[Liviu Ionescu]

> On 10 Jul 2020, at 11:32, Peter Maydell <peter.maydell@linaro.org> wrote:
> 
> ... Do we expect any other
> kinds to appear as we make more use of gitlab?

I have zero experience with gitlab, but on github yes, most project activity can trigger notifications.

this is not a problem in itself. the problem is that, instead of using a personal email address, the qemu-devel list was used somewhere in the project settings, and all notifications go to the list.


regards,

Liviu

Re: Separate notifications from list messages?

[Daniel P. Berrangé]

On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 11:40:05AM +0300, Liviu Ionescu wrote:
> 
> 
> > On 10 Jul 2020, at 11:32, Peter Maydell <peter.maydell@linaro.org> wrote:
> > 
> > ... Do we expect any other
> > kinds to appear as we make more use of gitlab?
> 
> I have zero experience with gitlab, but on github yes, most project activity can trigger notifications.
> 
> this is not a problem in itself. the problem is that, instead of
> using a personal email address, the qemu-devel list was used
> somewhere in the project settings, and all notifications go to the list.

This wasn't a mistake - it was very delibrate, precisely so that all
involved in QEMU development will see the failures, instead of expecting
a handful of people to take all the work of dealing with failures. In
general anyone who's a regular contributor has a shared responsibility
to help keep QEMU building reliably.

Given the overall volume of mail on qemu-devel, a handful of notifications
from CI each day is not a burden IMHO.

Regards,
Daniel
-- 
|: https://berrange.com      -o-    https://www.flickr.com/photos/dberrange :|
|: https://libvirt.org         -o-            https://fstop138.berrange.com :|
|: https://entangle-photo.org    -o-    https://www.instagram.com/dberrange :|

Re: Separate notifications from list messages?

[Liviu Ionescu]

> On 10 Jul 2020, at 11:54, Daniel P. Berrangé <berrange@redhat.com> wrote:
> 
> This wasn't a mistake - it was very delibrate, precisely so that all
> involved in QEMU development will see the failures, instead of expecting
> a handful of people to take all the work of dealing with failures. In
> general anyone who's a regular contributor has a shared responsibility
> to help keep QEMU building reliably.

Yes, sure, but the typical workflow allows anyone to submit contributions, these contributions are automatically checked by CI, and if they pass, someone with administrative rights merges them into the repo.

Thus the main responsibility for dealing with failures goes to the contributor, there is little the community can do to fix the failures.

---

Anyway, do as you like; I already added filters in the mail server to remove those messages.


Regards,

Liviu

Re: Separate notifications from list messages?

[Thomas Huth]

On 10/07/2020 11.24, Liviu Ionescu wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 10 Jul 2020, at 11:54, Daniel P. Berrangé <berrange@redhat.com> wrote:
>>
>> This wasn't a mistake - it was very delibrate, precisely so that all
>> involved in QEMU development will see the failures, instead of expecting
>> a handful of people to take all the work of dealing with failures. In
>> general anyone who's a regular contributor has a shared responsibility
>> to help keep QEMU building reliably.
> 
> Yes, sure, but the typical workflow allows anyone to submit contributions, these contributions are automatically checked by CI, and if they pass, someone with administrative rights merges them into the repo.
> 
> Thus the main responsibility for dealing with failures goes to the contributor, there is little the community can do to fix the failures.

Ok, I think here's the misunderstanding: The Gitlab messages that you
can see currently on the list are from the main repository, not from a
contributor's private repo! Yes, there is currently quite a bit broken
in master, and that's why you get all these messages via the mailing
list. Before Philippe turned them on, they went almost unnoticed, apart
from some few people who used gitlab on their own. Now these problems
get at least some more attention ;-)

 Thomas

Re: Separate notifications from list messages?

[Liviu Ionescu]

> On 10 Jul 2020, at 14:43, Thomas Huth <thuth@redhat.com> wrote:
> 
> ... The Gitlab messages that you
> can see currently on the list are from the main repository, not from a
> contributor's private repo!

I don't know why we should worry about contributor's private repos, but anyway, the GitLab workflow seems different from GitHub, probably not using pull request, and I hope you all master it, since I don't. :-(

> Now these problems
> get at least some more attention ;-)

sure, but is there anything the members of this list can/are expected to do to fix them? do these messages increase the people knowledge on the project? are these messages useful in any way to the list members?


regards,

Liviu

Re: Separate notifications from list messages?

[Philippe Mathieu-Daudé]

On 7/10/20 10:32 AM, Peter Maydell wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 at 09:25, Liviu Ionescu <ilg@livius.net> wrote:
>>> On 10 Jul 2020, at 11:09, Peter Maydell <peter.maydell@linaro.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> What sort of notifications are we talking about here ?

qemu-ci-notifications@ for all our CI?

>>
>> For example:
>>
>> ...
>> Received: from mg.gitlab.com (74.90.74.34.bc.googleusercontent.com
>>  [34.74.90.74]) by smtp-out-n18.prod.us-west-2.postgun.com with SMTP id
>>  5f074fb9a33b1a3dd4571072 (version=TLS1.3, cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256);
>>  Thu, 09 Jul 2020 17:11:21 GMT
>> Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2020 17:11:20 +0000
>> Message-ID: <5f074fb827f26_7cd93fa34d371dbc1570d@sidekiq-catchall-02-sv-gprd.mail>
>> Subject: QEMU | Pipeline #164899134 has failed for master | 3d7cad3c
>> Reply-to: GitLab <noreply@gitlab.com>, GitLab <gitlab@mg.gitlab.com>
>> From: GitLab via <qemu-devel@nongnu.org>
>> ...
> 
> Thanks; yeah, I've seen those go past. Do we expect any other
> kinds to appear as we make more use of gitlab?

If we create qemu-ci-notifications@ we could enable the email
notifications from Shippable/Cirrus/Travis.

Shippable/Cirrus are only checked by Alex/myself, it is not
practical.

We could move the Travis-CI IRC notification to this mailing
list.

Then when jobs are ported to GitLab, we will simply disable the
other CIs. But one unique list for all of them sounds a good idea,
and let the developers the freedom to subscribe to it.

Regards,

Phil.

Re: Separate notifications from list messages?

[Liviu Ionescu]

> On 10 Jul 2020, at 11:43, Philippe Mathieu-Daudé <philmd@redhat.com> wrote:
> 
> On 7/10/20 10:32 AM, Peter Maydell wrote:
>> On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 at 09:25, Liviu Ionescu <ilg@livius.net> wrote:
>>>> On 10 Jul 2020, at 11:09, Peter Maydell <peter.maydell@linaro.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> What sort of notifications are we talking about here ?
> 
> qemu-ci-notifications@ for all our CI?

if you are sure that all notifications are related to CI. otherwise qemu-notifications.

I suggest you check the GitLab settings for all places where the qemu-devel is used.


regards,

Liviu

Re: Separate notifications from list messages?

[Daniel P. Berrangé]

On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 09:32:28AM +0100, Peter Maydell wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 at 09:25, Liviu Ionescu <ilg@livius.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > On 10 Jul 2020, at 11:09, Peter Maydell <peter.maydell@linaro.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > What sort of notifications are we talking about here ?
> >
> > For example:
> >
> > ...
> > Received: from mg.gitlab.com (74.90.74.34.bc.googleusercontent.com
> >  [34.74.90.74]) by smtp-out-n18.prod.us-west-2.postgun.com with SMTP id
> >  5f074fb9a33b1a3dd4571072 (version=TLS1.3, cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256);
> >  Thu, 09 Jul 2020 17:11:21 GMT
> > Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2020 17:11:20 +0000
> > Message-ID: <5f074fb827f26_7cd93fa34d371dbc1570d@sidekiq-catchall-02-sv-gprd.mail>
> > Subject: QEMU | Pipeline #164899134 has failed for master | 3d7cad3c
> > Reply-to: GitLab <noreply@gitlab.com>, GitLab <gitlab@mg.gitlab.com>
> > From: GitLab via <qemu-devel@nongnu.org>
> > ...
> 
> Thanks; yeah, I've seen those go past. Do we expect any other
> kinds to appear as we make more use of gitlab?

This was an explicit configuration choice to make the CI failure reports
appear on the list, rather than expecting one or two people to be
responsible for watching the CI. IME if we move them off to a separate
list in practice almost no one will bother to subscribe to the list.

Ideally we would not have any failures in the first place, but right now
GitLab CI is done post-merge.

When Peter starts using GitLab CI as one of the pre-merge gates, then we
should see very few CI failure messages on list. We'll likely still get
a few due to transient infrastructure problems. I think this is the
important thing to focus on here, rather than trying to hide away the
current CI failures.

Regards,
Daniel
-- 
|: https://berrange.com      -o-    https://www.flickr.com/photos/dberrange :|
|: https://libvirt.org         -o-            https://fstop138.berrange.com :|
|: https://entangle-photo.org    -o-    https://www.instagram.com/dberrange :|

Re: Separate notifications from list messages?

[Liviu Ionescu]

> On 10 Jul 2020, at 11:49, Daniel P. Berrangé <berrange@redhat.com> wrote:
> 
> This was an explicit configuration choice to make the CI failure reports
> appear on the list, rather than expecting one or two people to be
> responsible for watching the CI. 

I'm not familiar with your workflow, it might be so, but normally only those who submit changes (pull requests on GitHub) should be notified on the results.


regards,

Liviu