Re: Russians in the Kernel

Re: Russians in the Kernel

[Dylan ‎ ‎]

Hello everyone,

The recent stir about the removal of prominent contributors from the Linux kernel for nothing more than being Russian has prompted me, someone who has absolutely no business being in and around the kernel mailing list to compose a message and hopefully provide the prospective of an end-user of the Linux kernel. Some people feel blanket banning an entire group of people for the wrongdoing of a handful is rather unfair and not in keeping with the spirit of free and open source software. Rather than complain about the change and governmental overreach in community projects, I'd like to offer a technical solution that could ensure things continue as they have while adhering to sanctions.

Would it not be possible for the Russian kernel development community to pull together and continue working on the Linux kernel in their own tree and then have any patches sent back upstream by someone that is not a Russian citizen? I feel the solution would definitely help with making things right to the veteran contributors that have been working on the kernel for decades and allow patchsets to be more closely monitored for possible sabotage by having all patch submissions be sent through an intermediary that is easily identified as handling Russian code.

If sabotage by state actors is a concern for the Linux kernel, then the above solution should appease most people in that respect. Free and open source software is blind to the identity of people. Hopefully my proposed solution can help keep it that way.

*Apologies in advance for any duplicate emails sent to those CC'd.

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Re: Russians in the Kernel

[Al Viro]

On Tue, Nov 05, 2024 at 04:15:23PM +0100, Dylan   wrote:
> Hello everyone,
> 
> The recent stir about the removal of prominent contributors from the Linux kernel for nothing more than being Russian has prompted me, someone who has absolutely no business being in and around the kernel mailing list to compose a message and hopefully provide the prospective of an end-user of the Linux kernel. Some people feel blanket banning an entire group of people for the wrongdoing of a handful is rather unfair and not in keeping with the spirit of free and open source software. Rather than complain about the change and governmental overreach in community projects, I'd like to offer a technical solution that could ensure things continue as they have while adhering to sanctions.

WTF is "being Russian" and what does that have to do with anything?

> Would it not be possible for the Russian kernel development community to pull together and continue working on the Linux kernel in their own tree and then have any patches sent back upstream by someone that is not a Russian citizen? I feel the solution would definitely help with making things right to the veteran contributors that have been working on the kernel for decades and allow patchsets to be more closely monitored for possible sabotage by having all patch submissions be sent through an intermediary that is easily identified as handling Russian code.

*snort*

For one thing, sanctions are not tied to citizenship.  For another,
any proxy set up to bypass the sanctions that really exist (i.e.
based on employment by sanctioned companies) would fall under the
same sanctions.

For another, you _really_ don't want to set anything with even
the slightest whiff of "that's how to hide patch origin and/or
evade review" - that's an open invitation to any organization
that wants to feed something underhanded into the kernel.
Won't be a healthy place to hang around, to put it very mildly.

Re: Russians in the Kernel

[Dylan ‎ ‎]

> For another,
any proxy set up to bypass the sanctions that really exist (i.e.
based on employment by sanctioned companies) would fall under the
same sanctions.

You could make the argument that sanctions as per the laws of the United States is itself unconstitutional as it impedes people's right to freedom of assembly. Even then, there is still the point that the Linux kernel and similar open source projects are transnational communities and by prohibiting access to participation you aren't respecting the spirit of free and open source software. Where anyone may participate regardless of their walk of life. I can understand not wanting to incur the wrath of the American government and that it is better to comply in some cases than make a stand as has been the case with Nintendo and emulation. I just simply don't like the amount of governmental overreach with that particular executive order and believe that it should be undermined wherever legally possible. 

Though I'll understand if the idea does end up getting anywhere. I just thought that it was worth sharing nonetheless.

> For another, you really don't want to set anything with even
the slightest whiff of "that's how to hide patch origin and/or
evade review" - that's an open invitation to any organization
that wants to feed something underhanded into the kernel.
Won't be a healthy place to hang around, to put it very mildly.

The difference is that it would all be above board with the intermediary acting as a buffer between those targeted by sanctions and the work they've done. It's all open source anyway, so there's nothing that can be done if their source code was forked and then used upstream in a patch series.

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Re: Russians in the Kernel

[Dylan ‎ ‎]

Thought I'd check back in as the thread bares repeating after the recent incident with Kent Overstreet. The Code of Conduct is not being fairly applied across the entirety of the Linux kernel development space and I feel that the direct violation of the Code of Conduct by the Linux Foundation and Greg Kroah-Hartman by discriminating against a group of people for their nationality and ethnicity should be addressed at the earliest convenience.

On Nov 5, 2024 at 4:34 PM, "Dylan ‎ ‎" <falaichte@mailfence.com> wrote:> For another,
any proxy set up to bypass the sanctions that really exist (i.e.
based on employment by sanctioned companies) would fall under the
same sanctions.

You could make the argument that sanctions as per the laws of the United States
is itself unconstitutional as it impedes people's right to freedom of assembly.
Even then, there is still the point that the Linux kernel and similar open
source projects are transnational communities and by prohibiting access to
participation you aren't respecting the spirit of free and open source
software. Where anyone may participate regardless of their walk of life. I can
understand not wanting to incur the wrath of the American government and that
it is better to comply in some cases than make a stand as has been the case
with Nintendo and emulation. I just simply don't like the amount of
governmental overreach with that particular executive order and believe that it
should be undermined wherever legally possible. 

Though I'll understand if the idea does end up getting anywhere. I just thought
that it was worth sharing nonetheless.

> For another, you really don't want to set anything with even
the slightest whiff of "that's how to hide patch origin and/or
evade review" - that's an open invitation to any organization
that wants to feed something underhanded into the kernel.
Won't be a healthy place to hang around, to put it very mildly.

The difference is that it would all be above board with the intermediary acting
as a buffer between those targeted by sanctions and the work they've done. It's
all open source anyway, so there's nothing that can be done if their source
code was forked and then used upstream in a patch series.

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