All of lore.kernel.org
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: Laurent Pinchart <laurent.pinchart@ideasonboard.com>
To: Jori Koolstra <jkoolstra@xs4all.nl>
Cc: "Lorenzo Stoakes (ARM)" <ljs@kernel.org>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	Sasha Levin <sashal@kernel.org>,
	Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>,
	corbet@lwn.net, skhan@linuxfoundation.org, rdunlap@infradead.org,
	federico.vaga@vaga.pv.it, apw@canonical.com, joe@perches.com,
	workflows@vger.kernel.org, linux-doc@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	Krzysztof Kozlowski <krzk@kernel.org>,
	Justin Stitt <justinstitt@google.com>,
	Carlos Maiolino <cem@kernel.org>,
	Jakub Kicinski <kuba@kernel.org>,
	Brian Foster <bfoster@redhat.com>,
	Christoph Hellwig <hch@infradead.org>,
	David Disseldorp <ddiss@suse.de>, Mark Brown <broonie@kernel.org>,
	Jani Nikula <jani.nikula@intel.com>, Jens Axboe <axboe@kernel.dk>,
	"David Hildenbrand (Arm)" <david@kernel.org>,
	Vlastimil Babka <vbabka@kernel.org>,
	"Christian Brauner (Amutable)" <brauner@kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] docs: remove Assisted-by references
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2026 15:01:34 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20261013130134.GH4214@killaraus.ideasonboard.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <353766590.785601.1791895821929@kpc.webmail.kpnmail.nl>

On Tue, Oct 13, 2026 at 02:50:21PM +0200, Jori Koolstra wrote:
> > Op 13-10-2026 14:38 CEST schreef Laurent Pinchart:
> > On Tue, Oct 13, 2026 at 01:19:40PM +0200, Jori Koolstra wrote:
> > > > Op 12-10-2026 17:42 CEST schreef Lorenzo Stoakes (ARM) <ljs@kernel.org>:
> > > >  
> > > > +cc the participants from that thread FYI. The original patch is at [2].
> > > 
> > > Thanks, Lorenzo.
> > > 
> > > > On Fri, Oct 09, 2026 at 12:05:06PM +0200, Krzysztof Kozlowski wrote:
> > > > > On 09/10/2026 10:31, Sasha Levin wrote:
> > > > > > The Maintainers Summit reached consensus to deprecate the Assisted-by
> > > > > > tag. Remove the documentation requiring it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Please provide here some sort of arguments used in that summit
> > > > > consensus/discussion. This basically reverts/changes previous consensus
> > > > > [1], which is fine itself, but it lacks reasoning.
> > > > >
> > > > > [1] https://lore.kernel.org/workflows/2026070224-unholy-commode-cf45@gregkh/
> > > > 
> > > > Thanks for linking that! It is important to ack previous discussion on
> > > > this. Also LWN article is up now at [3].
> > > > 
> > > > I'm less bothered than you might think by this change.
> > > > 
> > > > The tag's useful for push back on review, but the only long-term strategy for
> > > > slop is to aggressively ignore it.
> > > > 
> > > > Linus has made that clear that that's fine.
> > > > 
> > > > What kills the project is having 1,000 slop submissions that 2 or 3 people have
> > > > to do something with.
> > > > 
> > > > The only long-term solution to that is to hit mark read 1,000 times :)
> > > 
> > > There's a way to nuke drive-by authors and that is to require them to do
> > > some kind of "proof-of-effort." So you want to contribute to the kernel?
> > > Good, come to one of the OSS conferences, or LPC, or have some well-known
> > > maintainer vouch for you, or do the kernel mentorship program. The point
> > > is not that this cannot be gamed, but that the "gaming" in itself requires
> > > some kind of investment, like proof-of-work.
> > > 
> > > We may miss the savant that for whatever reason cannot show up to a conference,
> > 
> > We'll miss all the contributors who started small and put time and
> > effort in learning. I'm pretty sure that's a majority of the people on
> > the CC list, and it certainly includes myself. Making it much more
> > difficult for true hackers to contribute to the kernel, including by
> > requiring paying for travel to conferences, is the kind of policy that
> > would make me stop contributing to the kernel.
> 
> But you were there at LPC!

It took a decade between my first kernel contribution and my first time
at LPC. And luck played a great role there, it could easily have taken
longer.

> Sorry, was planning to go to your talk, but
> couldn't :( . Would have loved to chat with you.
> 
> I doubt how many people are like this. You have to contribute A LOT of
> time to get to a meaningful level of understanding of even just one
> subsystem

And that's what people have been doing since the start of the kernel.

> , even with LLM support. I know some people don't travel, but
> I didn't suggest that conference attendance should be the only avenue
> to participate.
> 
> > > but Linux Foundation is already very supportive of funding people.
> > 
> > How many people with very little history of kernel contributions has the
> > LF funded ?
> 
> Well, me, for instance :)

I note a count of 1 out of thousands.

-- 
Regards,

Laurent Pinchart

  reply	other threads:[~2026-10-13 13:01 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 42+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2026-10-09  8:31 [PATCH] docs: remove Assisted-by references Sasha Levin
2026-10-09  9:38 ` Laurent Pinchart
2026-10-09 10:09   ` Sasha Levin
2026-10-09 10:05 ` Krzysztof Kozlowski
2026-10-09 10:24   ` Greg KH
2026-10-09 15:20   ` Jonathan Corbet
2026-10-11  1:04     ` Steven Rostedt
2026-10-12 15:42   ` Lorenzo Stoakes (ARM)
2026-10-13 11:19     ` Jori Koolstra
2026-10-13 12:38       ` Laurent Pinchart
2026-10-13 12:50         ` Jori Koolstra
2026-10-13 13:01           ` Laurent Pinchart [this message]
2026-10-13 13:24         ` Ricardo B. Marlière (SUSE)
2026-10-13 12:49       ` Lorenzo Stoakes (ARM)
2026-10-13 17:16         ` Laurent Pinchart
2026-10-13 12:31     ` Laurent Pinchart
2026-10-13 12:59       ` Lorenzo Stoakes (ARM)
2026-10-13 13:04         ` Krzysztof Kozlowski
2026-10-13 13:07           ` Lorenzo Stoakes (ARM)
2026-10-13 13:12         ` Laurent Pinchart
2026-10-13 13:29           ` Lorenzo Stoakes (ARM)
2026-10-13 13:37             ` Jori Koolstra
2026-10-13 14:52             ` Kees Cook
2026-10-13 14:54               ` Jori Koolstra
2026-10-13 14:58               ` Jori Koolstra
2026-10-13 17:12                 ` Kees Cook
2026-10-13 17:42                   ` Laurent Pinchart
2026-10-13 15:02               ` Lorenzo Stoakes (ARM)
2026-10-13 16:58                 ` Kees Cook
2026-10-13 17:32             ` Laurent Pinchart
2026-10-13  4:24 ` Kees Cook
2026-10-13  5:56   ` Randy Dunlap
2026-10-13  6:18     ` Greg KH
2026-10-13  8:25     ` Kees Cook
2026-10-13 12:28       ` [PATCH] docs: remove Assisted-by reference Jori Koolstra
2026-10-13 12:55         ` Laurent Pinchart
2026-10-13 13:03           ` Jori Koolstra
2026-10-13 13:10             ` Laurent Pinchart
2026-10-13 13:20               ` Jori Koolstra
2026-10-13 13:55                 ` Laurent Pinchart
2026-10-13 15:18           ` Mark Brown
2026-10-13 17:07             ` Laurent Pinchart

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=20261013130134.GH4214@killaraus.ideasonboard.com \
    --to=laurent.pinchart@ideasonboard.com \
    --cc=apw@canonical.com \
    --cc=axboe@kernel.dk \
    --cc=bfoster@redhat.com \
    --cc=brauner@kernel.org \
    --cc=broonie@kernel.org \
    --cc=cem@kernel.org \
    --cc=corbet@lwn.net \
    --cc=david@kernel.org \
    --cc=ddiss@suse.de \
    --cc=federico.vaga@vaga.pv.it \
    --cc=gregkh@linuxfoundation.org \
    --cc=hch@infradead.org \
    --cc=jani.nikula@intel.com \
    --cc=jkoolstra@xs4all.nl \
    --cc=joe@perches.com \
    --cc=justinstitt@google.com \
    --cc=krzk@kernel.org \
    --cc=kuba@kernel.org \
    --cc=linux-doc@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=ljs@kernel.org \
    --cc=rdunlap@infradead.org \
    --cc=sashal@kernel.org \
    --cc=skhan@linuxfoundation.org \
    --cc=torvalds@linux-foundation.org \
    --cc=vbabka@kernel.org \
    --cc=workflows@vger.kernel.org \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is an external index of several public inboxes,
see mirroring instructions on how to clone and mirror
all data and code used by this external index.