* [Qemu-devel] Mac OS X at native speed... @ 2005-06-06 19:05 Oliver Gerlich 2005-06-06 22:21 ` Hetz Ben Hamo 0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread From: Oliver Gerlich @ 2005-06-06 19:05 UTC (permalink / raw) To: qemu-devel -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Could this: http://apple.slashdot.org/apple/05/06/06/1752234.shtml?tid=118&tid=179&tid=3 help to run Mac OS X at near-native speed on x86? I'd really like to try OS X myself, but money-wise Qemu will most likely be the only way for me... So maybe this switch to x86 could eliminate any byte ordering slowdowns and make it run as fast as x86-on-x86? Curious about comments from insiders, Oliver Gerlich -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFCpJ5tTFOM6DcNJ6cRAmPqAJ4vpF8B8KETNVd3hPhC6MEpa13DiQCgmM4t uNq6QoDKyFyMiZia3hYdllI= =VOCw -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: [Qemu-devel] Mac OS X at native speed... 2005-06-06 19:05 [Qemu-devel] Mac OS X at native speed Oliver Gerlich @ 2005-06-06 22:21 ` Hetz Ben Hamo 2005-06-09 14:42 ` Natalia Portillo 2005-06-10 3:37 ` André Braga 0 siblings, 2 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: Hetz Ben Hamo @ 2005-06-06 22:21 UTC (permalink / raw) To: qemu-devel Not exactly... As many Apple fans can tell you, apple just love to stick their own ROM in there machines (I think it's called open firmware these days). Since your own PC doesn't have this ROM (and I imagine they'll add couple of tricks more to the package) - you won't be able even to install OS X on an avrage PC you buy on the market, unless it came from Apple. Compiling QEMU under OS-X/Pentium machine, that could be another story with more more success... Thanks, Hetz On 6/6/05, Oliver Gerlich <olig9@gmx.de> wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Could this: > http://apple.slashdot.org/apple/05/06/06/1752234.shtml?tid=118&tid=179&tid=3 > help to run Mac OS X at near-native speed on x86? I'd really like to try > OS X myself, but money-wise Qemu will most likely be the only way for me... > So maybe this switch to x86 could eliminate any byte ordering slowdowns > and make it run as fast as x86-on-x86? > > Curious about comments from insiders, > Oliver Gerlich > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFCpJ5tTFOM6DcNJ6cRAmPqAJ4vpF8B8KETNVd3hPhC6MEpa13DiQCgmM4t > uNq6QoDKyFyMiZia3hYdllI= > =VOCw > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > _______________________________________________ > Qemu-devel mailing list > Qemu-devel@nongnu.org > http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: [Qemu-devel] Mac OS X at native speed... 2005-06-06 22:21 ` Hetz Ben Hamo @ 2005-06-09 14:42 ` Natalia Portillo 2005-06-09 14:55 ` Hetz Ben Hamo 2005-06-10 3:37 ` André Braga 1 sibling, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread From: Natalia Portillo @ 2005-06-09 14:42 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Hetz Ben Hamo, qemu-devel Apple will use standard PC architecture: hardware, memory map, ROM (the BIOS), etc. Apple will remain the kernel as Open Source. Just search XPostFacto. Was easy to make OS X work in machines not officially supported, and so will be. El 06/06/2005, a las 23:21, Hetz Ben Hamo escribió: > Not exactly... > > As many Apple fans can tell you, apple just love to stick their own > ROM in there machines (I think it's called open firmware these days). > Since your own PC doesn't have this ROM (and I imagine they'll add > couple of tricks more to the package) - you won't be able even to > install OS X on an avrage PC you buy on the market, unless it came > from Apple. > > Compiling QEMU under OS-X/Pentium machine, that could be another story > with more more success... > > Thanks, > Hetz > > On 6/6/05, Oliver Gerlich <olig9@gmx.de> wrote: > >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> Could this: >> http://apple.slashdot.org/apple/05/06/06/1752234.shtml? >> tid=118&tid=179&tid=3 >> help to run Mac OS X at near-native speed on x86? I'd really like >> to try >> OS X myself, but money-wise Qemu will most likely be the only way >> for me... >> So maybe this switch to x86 could eliminate any byte ordering >> slowdowns >> and make it run as fast as x86-on-x86? >> >> Curious about comments from insiders, >> Oliver Gerlich >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >> Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) >> >> iD8DBQFCpJ5tTFOM6DcNJ6cRAmPqAJ4vpF8B8KETNVd3hPhC6MEpa13DiQCgmM4t >> uNq6QoDKyFyMiZia3hYdllI= >> =VOCw >> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Qemu-devel mailing list >> Qemu-devel@nongnu.org >> http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Qemu-devel mailing list > Qemu-devel@nongnu.org > http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: [Qemu-devel] Mac OS X at native speed... 2005-06-09 14:42 ` Natalia Portillo @ 2005-06-09 14:55 ` Hetz Ben Hamo 2005-06-10 3:48 ` André Braga 2005-06-10 16:25 ` Ryan Rempel 0 siblings, 2 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: Hetz Ben Hamo @ 2005-06-09 14:55 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Natalia Portillo; +Cc: qemu-devel Not exactly. XpostFacto let you install OS X on macs with PPC chips (G3 as minimum), not on Intel based PC's. Apple will *not* let users install OS-X/ X86 on your PC. Thats the official word from Phil Schiller, Vice president of worldwide marketting at Apple. So, I'm pretty sure Apple will use some tricks to not-allow users to install OS-X/X86 on non-apple X86 based machines by using some tricks (different BIOS, additional ROM, or some heavy modifications to some chipset). Sure, Darwin can run on any X86 machine, but it's not going to be easy running OS-X/X86 that easily.. Hetz On 6/9/05, Natalia Portillo <claunia@claunia.com> wrote: > Apple will use standard PC architecture: hardware, memory map, ROM > (the BIOS), etc. > Apple will remain the kernel as Open Source. > > Just search XPostFacto. > Was easy to make OS X work in machines not officially supported, and > so will be. > > El 06/06/2005, a las 23:21, Hetz Ben Hamo escribió: > > > Not exactly... > > > > As many Apple fans can tell you, apple just love to stick their own > > ROM in there machines (I think it's called open firmware these days). > > Since your own PC doesn't have this ROM (and I imagine they'll add > > couple of tricks more to the package) - you won't be able even to > > install OS X on an avrage PC you buy on the market, unless it came > > from Apple. > > > > Compiling QEMU under OS-X/Pentium machine, that could be another story > > with more more success... > > > > Thanks, > > Hetz > > > > On 6/6/05, Oliver Gerlich <olig9@gmx.de> wrote: > > > >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >> Hash: SHA1 > >> > >> Could this: > >> http://apple.slashdot.org/apple/05/06/06/1752234.shtml? > >> tid=118&tid=179&tid=3 > >> help to run Mac OS X at near-native speed on x86? I'd really like > >> to try > >> OS X myself, but money-wise Qemu will most likely be the only way > >> for me... > >> So maybe this switch to x86 could eliminate any byte ordering > >> slowdowns > >> and make it run as fast as x86-on-x86? > >> > >> Curious about comments from insiders, > >> Oliver Gerlich > >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > >> Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) > >> > >> iD8DBQFCpJ5tTFOM6DcNJ6cRAmPqAJ4vpF8B8KETNVd3hPhC6MEpa13DiQCgmM4t > >> uNq6QoDKyFyMiZia3hYdllI= > >> =VOCw > >> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Qemu-devel mailing list > >> Qemu-devel@nongnu.org > >> http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel > >> > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Qemu-devel mailing list > > Qemu-devel@nongnu.org > > http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel > > > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: [Qemu-devel] Mac OS X at native speed... 2005-06-09 14:55 ` Hetz Ben Hamo @ 2005-06-10 3:48 ` André Braga 2005-06-10 16:25 ` Ryan Rempel 1 sibling, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: André Braga @ 2005-06-10 3:48 UTC (permalink / raw) To: qemu-devel 2005/6/9, Hetz Ben Hamo <hetzbh@gmail.com>: > XpostFacto let you install OS X on macs with PPC chips (G3 as > minimum) Not exactly. Jaguar can be installed on a 603/604 machine. Panther and later versions require G3s at minimum. > On 6/9/05, Natalia Portillo <claunia@claunia.com> wrote: > > Apple will use standard PC architecture: hardware, memory map, ROM > > (the BIOS), etc. > > Apple will remain the kernel as Open Source. Darwin is one thing, Mac OS X is another. There's more to booting an operating system than the kernel, and you know it, Natalia. The same way there are some closed-source, binary-only drivers on Darwin today, probably some part of the stage 1/2/3 bootloader will be proprietary and based upon some sort of DRM. It will be cracked eventually, but it's not gonna be a walk in the park, and it's definitely not going to be made public by any responsible group (like OpenDarwin, who hosts XPostFacto). ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: [Qemu-devel] Mac OS X at native speed... 2005-06-09 14:55 ` Hetz Ben Hamo 2005-06-10 3:48 ` André Braga @ 2005-06-10 16:25 ` Ryan Rempel 1 sibling, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: Ryan Rempel @ 2005-06-10 16:25 UTC (permalink / raw) To: qemu-devel On 6/9/05, Hetz Ben Hamo <hetzbh@gmail.com> wrote: > XpostFacto let you install OS X on macs with PPC chips (G3 as > minimum), not on Intel based PC's. > > Apple will *not* let users install OS-X/ X86 on your PC. Thats the > official word from Phil Schiller, Vice president of worldwide > marketting at Apple. > > So, I'm pretty sure Apple will use some tricks to not-allow users to > install OS-X/X86 on non-apple X86 based machines by using some tricks > (different BIOS, additional ROM, or some heavy modifications to some > chipset). It will be interesting to see what Apple does to prevent Mac OS X / Intel from running on generic hardware. At the moment, there isn't anything special in Mac OS X / PPC that prevents it from running on generic PPC hardware -- of course, there are a variety of technical issues to deal with, but there isn't anything either at the Darwin layer or the GUI layer that actively prevents people from getting it to work on generic PPC hardware. (Well, the Mac OS X Installer in 10.3 and 10.4 does decline to install on certain known systems that were supported by previous versions of Mac OS X, but it will install on unknown systems). However, the Mac OS X license does restrict the user to installing on Apple hardware. I haven't given much thought to how enforceable that restriction would be. The license for the "developer preview" of Mac OS X / Intel is currently even more restrictive -- it prevents the developer from installing Mac OS X / Intel on any other machine than the one which Apple supplies (on which Mac OS X / Intel is pre-installed). The interesting thing about the technical tricks that Apple might use to "lock out" non-Apple hardware is that most of those tricks will have to trust the kernel, and the Mac OS X kernel is heavily modifiable in one way or another (kernel extensions, patching, recompiling, etc.). Perhaps there could be some kind of motherboard-based DRM, but even that would need to be accessed through the kernel, one presumes. Perhaps some moderate technical difficulties combined with licensing prohibitions would be sufficient for Apple's purposes -- it will be interesting to see what they come up with. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: [Qemu-devel] Mac OS X at native speed... 2005-06-06 22:21 ` Hetz Ben Hamo 2005-06-09 14:42 ` Natalia Portillo @ 2005-06-10 3:37 ` André Braga 1 sibling, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: André Braga @ 2005-06-10 3:37 UTC (permalink / raw) To: qemu-devel Open Firmware is a "fantasy name" for the IEEE-1275 standard. It's not some idiotic gratuitous Apple fluff. 2005/6/6, Hetz Ben Hamo <hetzbh@gmail.com>: > Not exactly... > > As many Apple fans can tell you, apple just love to stick their own > ROM in there machines (I think it's called open firmware these days). > Since your own PC doesn't have this ROM (and I imagine they'll add > couple of tricks more to the package) - you won't be able even to > install OS X on an avrage PC you buy on the market, unless it came > from Apple. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2005-06-10 16:29 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 7+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2005-06-06 19:05 [Qemu-devel] Mac OS X at native speed Oliver Gerlich 2005-06-06 22:21 ` Hetz Ben Hamo 2005-06-09 14:42 ` Natalia Portillo 2005-06-09 14:55 ` Hetz Ben Hamo 2005-06-10 3:48 ` André Braga 2005-06-10 16:25 ` Ryan Rempel 2005-06-10 3:37 ` André Braga
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