Re: [Bug 10797] Something is consuming power after shutdown

Re: [Bug 10797] Something is consuming power after shutdown

[devzero]

>> Renato S. Yamane wrote:
>> ...
>>> <http://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10797>
>>> <http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=481493>
>>
>> Try to find out which component eats power, eg. by opening the machine
>> searching for heat.
>> 
>> (And yes, your hw is broken; on pc it is traditionaly hw
>> responsibility to power machine down.)
>
>OK, I try do this but I think this is very difficult because demand
>power is very low and is not enought to do hot some component. But I
>will try.

i also don`t think that you can find something which is noticeably warm this way - 4% of your battery in 12hrs - that "hot spot" should be hard to identify - and opening notebooks for getting access to the all parts of the mainboard may be hard/dangerous.

>I don't think that my hardware is broked because I don't have this kind
>of problem on Kernel <=2.6.22 or in other OS.
>
>And other user have the same problem (cc'ed on Bug #10797)

if your notebook powers down and doesn`t show that something is still "on" and consuming power - i`d call that "broken by design".
it should not be up to the operating system to make sure that all parts of the hardware are switched to off.

if i power down some device and there is nothing showing "hey, here is something active" (e.g. by some led or lcd) - i expect it to stop consuming power. 

maybe it`s not that broken as my PC, which is consuming 20W after power-off  (due to power-supply) - but i really would go ask the vendor and first complain there.

they should know the details.
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Re: [Bug 10797] Something is consuming power after shutdown

[Renato S. Yamane]

devzero@web.de wrote:
> Renato S. Yamane wrote:
>> Pavel Machek wrote:
>>> Renato S. Yamane wrote:
>>> ...
>>>> <http://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10797>
>>>> <http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=481493>
>>>
>>> Try to find out which component eats power, eg. by opening the machine
>>> searching for heat.
>>>
>>> (And yes, your hw is broken; on pc it is traditionaly hw
>>> responsibility to power machine down.)
>>
>> OK, I try do this but I think this is very difficult because demand
>> power is very low and is not enought to do hot some component. But I
>> will try.
> 
> i also don`t think that you can find something which is noticeably warm
> this way - 4% of your battery in 12hrs - that "hot spot" should be hard
> to identify

Yes, you are right!
I try find a "hot spot" and it's impossible.

> if your notebook powers down and doesn`t show that something is still
> "on" and consuming power - i`d call that "broken by design".

I don't know why, but as commented in Bug #10797, if I close my LCD
Display (activing LID), power on again (because when LID is actived, my
laptop hibernate), and shutdown, my battery charge not is changed.

Best regards,
Renato S. Yamane

Re: [Bug 10797] Something is consuming power after shutdown

[Lennart Sorensen]

On Sun, Jun 01, 2008 at 09:45:42PM -0300, Renato S. Yamane wrote:
> I don't know why, but as commented in Bug #10797, if I close my LCD
> Display (activing LID), power on again (because when LID is actived, my
> laptop hibernate), and shutdown, my battery charge not is changed.

You must be triggering some combination of ACPI events that happen to do
the right thing on the system.  However if issueing a power off doesn't
turn off the system, then it really sounds broken.

-- 
Len Sorensen

[Bug 10797] Something is consuming power after shutdown

[Renato S. Yamane]

<http://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10797>
<http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=481493>

After poweroff, something still working and consuming power. So I loss 
~4% of my battery charge in each 12h.

If I shutdown my laptop using Kernel 2.6.24/25 when battery is 100%, 
after 12h my battery charge go to 96% (this information is checked with 
kpowersave and with LED available in my laptop that change color from 
blue to yellow when battery is not FULL).

If I shutdown this same laptop by WinXP (I have a dual boot), nothing 
change. So, my battery still have 100% after 12h (or more).

I see a similar problem in EeePC (the problem is with snd_hda_intel 
driver), but I don't have this driver loaded:
http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEeePC/HowTo/Troubleshooting#head-84d9d8a97c9ce198c59edd9cd93a05ab24fd1ff8

Best regards,
Renato S. Yamane

Re: [Bug 10797] Something is consuming power after shutdown

[Arjan van de Ven]

On Mon, 26 May 2008 09:59:47 -0300
"Renato S. Yamane" <yamane@diamondcut.com.br> wrote:

> <http://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10797>
> <http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=481493>
> 
> After poweroff, something still working and consuming power. So I
> loss ~4% of my battery charge in each 12h.
> 
> If I shutdown my laptop using Kernel 2.6.24/25 when battery is 100%, 
> after 12h my battery charge go to 96% (this information is checked
> with kpowersave and with LED available in my laptop that change color
> from blue to yellow when battery is not FULL).
> 
> If I shutdown this same laptop by WinXP (I have a dual boot), nothing 
> change. So, my battery still have 100% after 12h (or more).
> 
> I see a similar problem in EeePC (the problem is with snd_hda_intel 
> driver), but I don't have this driver loaded:


the most obvious cause could be Wake-on-Lan, that leaves a part of the
system active (specifically, the network card). With the "ethtool"
program you can queary and set the state of this.

Similarly, but less likely, there is wake-on-serial and wake-on-usb, in
theory those are possible too but I've yet to see one of those on any
of my machines.

Re: [Bug 10797] Something is consuming power after shutdown

[Renato S. Yamane]

Arjan van de Ven wrote:
> "Renato S. Yamane" wrote:
>> <http://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10797>
>> <http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=481493>
>>
>> After poweroff, something still working and consuming power. So I
>> loss ~4% of my battery charge in each 12h.
> 
> the most obvious cause could be Wake-on-Lan, that leaves a part of the
> system active (specifically, the network card). With the "ethtool"
> program you can queary and set the state of this.

My network card have option WOL "disabled"

# ethtool eth0 | grep Wake
         Supports Wake-on: pg
         Wake-on: d

> Similarly, but less likely, there is wake-on-serial and wake-on-usb, in
> theory those are possible too but I've yet to see one of those on any
> of my machines.

My laptop don't have serial port and wake-on-usb is disabled too:

# cat /proc/acpi/wakeup
Device  S-state   Status   Sysfs node
LID0      S4    *enabled
RP01      S4     disabled  pci:0000:00:1c.0
RP02      S4     disabled  pci:0000:00:1c.1
RP03      S4     disabled
RP04      S4     disabled
USB1      S0     disabled  pci:0000:00:1d.0
USB2      S0     disabled  pci:0000:00:1d.1
USB3      S0     disabled  pci:0000:00:1d.2
USB4      S0     disabled  pci:0000:00:1d.3
USB7      S0     disabled  pci:0000:00:1d.7
MODM      S4     disabled  pci:0000:00:1e.3
PS2K      S4     disabled  pnp:00:07

Best regards,
Renato S. Yamane

Re: [Bug 10797] Something is consuming power after shutdown

[Renato S. Yamane]

Renato S. Yamane wrote:
> Arjan van de Ven wrote:
>> "Renato S. Yamane" wrote:
>>> After poweroff, something still working and consuming power. So I
>>> loss ~4% of my battery charge in each 12h.
>>
>> the most obvious cause could be Wake-on-Lan, that leaves a part of the
>> system active (specifically, the network card). With the "ethtool"
>> program you can queary and set the state of this.
> 
> My network card have option WOL "disabled"
> 
> # ethtool eth0 | grep Wake
>         Supports Wake-on: pg
>         Wake-on: d
> 
>> Similarly, but less likely, there is wake-on-serial and wake-on-usb, in
>> theory those are possible too but I've yet to see one of those on any
>> of my machines.
> 
> # cat /proc/acpi/wakeup
> Device  S-state   Status   Sysfs node
> LID0      S4    *enabled
> RP01      S4     disabled  pci:0000:00:1c.0
> RP02      S4     disabled  pci:0000:00:1c.1
> RP03      S4     disabled
> RP04      S4     disabled
> USB1      S0     disabled  pci:0000:00:1d.0
> USB2      S0     disabled  pci:0000:00:1d.1
> USB3      S0     disabled  pci:0000:00:1d.2
> USB4      S0     disabled  pci:0000:00:1d.3
> USB7      S0     disabled  pci:0000:00:1d.7
> MODM      S4     disabled  pci:0000:00:1e.3
> PS2K      S4     disabled  pnp:00:07


I test two times as commented in [1] and I can see that this problem
don't hapen if, before shutdown, I close LCD Display (activing LID to
hibernate).

[1] <http://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10797#c1>

So, to shutdown laptop with no battery change, is necessary:

1) Active LID (closing LCD Display). With this, my laptop will
hibernate, so is necessary wake-up again.
2) Shutdown

Best regards,
Renato S. Yamane

Re: [Bug 10797] Something is consuming power after shutdown

[Pavel Machek]

Hi!

> <http://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10797>
> <http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=481493>
> 
> After poweroff, something still working and consuming 
> power. So I loss ~4% of my battery charge in each 12h.
> 
> If I shutdown my laptop using Kernel 2.6.24/25 when 
> battery is 100%, after 12h my battery charge go to 96% 
> (this information is checked with kpowersave and with 
> LED available in my laptop that change color from blue 
> to yellow when battery is not FULL).
> 
> If I shutdown this same laptop by WinXP (I have a dual 
> boot), nothing change. So, my battery still have 100% 
> after 12h (or more).

Try to find out which component eats power, eg. by opening the machine
searching for heat.

(And yes, your hw is broken; on pc it is traditionaly hw
responsibility to power machine down.)

-- 
(english) http://www.livejournal.com/~pavelmachek
(cesky, pictures) http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/picture/horses/blog.html

Re: [Bug 10797] Something is consuming power after shutdown

[Renato S. Yamane]

Pavel Machek wrote:
> Renato S. Yamane wrote:
> ...
>> <http://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10797>
>> <http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=481493>
>
> Try to find out which component eats power, eg. by opening the machine
> searching for heat.
> 
> (And yes, your hw is broken; on pc it is traditionaly hw
> responsibility to power machine down.)

OK, I try do this but I think this is very difficult because demand
power is very low and is not enought to do hot some component. But I
will try.

I don't think that my hardware is broked because I don't have this kind
of problem on Kernel <=2.6.22 or in other OS.

And other user have the same problem (cc'ed on Bug #10797)

Best regards,
Renato S. Yamane

Re: [Bug 10797] Something is consuming power after shutdown

[Pavel Machek]

Hi!

> > (And yes, your hw is broken; on pc it is traditionaly hw
> > responsibility to power machine down.)
> 
> OK, I try do this but I think this is very difficult because demand
> power is very low and is not enought to do hot some component. But I
> will try.
> 
> I don't think that my hardware is broked because I don't have this kind
> of problem on Kernel <=2.6.22 or in other OS.

Can you try to find out when that started happening?

does it still happen with acpi=off ?

does it each too much power if you use 4second hold of power button to
shut it down from running linux?
-- 
(english) http://www.livejournal.com/~pavelmachek
(cesky, pictures) http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/picture/horses/blog.html

Re: [Bug 10797] Something is consuming power after shutdown

[Renato S. Yamane]

Pavel Machek wrote:
> Renato S. Yamane wrote:
>> Pavel Machek wrote:
>>> (And yes, your hw is broken; on pc it is traditionaly hw
>>> responsibility to power machine down.)
>>
>> OK, I try do this but I think this is very difficult because demand
>> power is very low and is not enought to do hot some component. But I
>> will try.
>>
>> I don't think that my hardware is broked because I don't have this kind
>> of problem on Kernel <=2.6.22 or in other OS.
>> Track: <http://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10797>
> 
> Can you try to find out when that started happening?
> does it still happen with acpi=off?
> does it each too much power if you use 4second hold of power button to
> shut it down from running linux?

With acpi=off this problem don't happening, but a lot of other problem
happening (as fan control).

I will try halt my laptop holding power button today and report you
tomorrow.

Best regards,
Renato S. Yamane

Re: [Bug 10797] Something is consuming power after shutdown

[Renato S. Yamane]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Renato S. Yamane wrote:
> Pavel Machek wrote:
>> Renato S. Yamane wrote:
>>> Pavel Machek wrote:
>>>> (And yes, your hw is broken; on pc it is traditionaly hw
>>>> responsibility to power machine down.)
>>> OK, I try do this but I think this is very difficult because demand
>>> power is very low and is not enought to do hot some component. But I
>>> will try.
>>>
>>> I don't think that my hardware is broked because I don't have this kind
>>> of problem on Kernel <=2.6.22 or in other OS.
>>> Track: <http://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10797>
>> Can you try to find out when that started happening?
>> does it still happen with acpi=off?
>> does it each too much power if you use 4second hold of power button to
>> shut it down from running linux?
> 
> With acpi=off this problem don't happening, but a lot of other problem
> happening (as fan control).
> 
> I will try halt my laptop holding power button today and report you
> tomorrow.

If I hold power button to force shutdown I don't have this problem with
battery charge.

Best regards,
Renato S. Yamane
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Re: [Bug 10797] Something is consuming power after shutdown

[Pavel Machek]

On Mon 2008-06-09 08:15:42, Renato S. Yamane wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Renato S. Yamane wrote:
> > Pavel Machek wrote:
> >> Renato S. Yamane wrote:
> >>> Pavel Machek wrote:
> >>>> (And yes, your hw is broken; on pc it is traditionaly hw
> >>>> responsibility to power machine down.)
> >>> OK, I try do this but I think this is very difficult because demand
> >>> power is very low and is not enought to do hot some component. But I
> >>> will try.
> >>>
> >>> I don't think that my hardware is broked because I don't have this kind
> >>> of problem on Kernel <=2.6.22 or in other OS.
> >>> Track: <http://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10797>
> >> Can you try to find out when that started happening?
> >> does it still happen with acpi=off?
> >> does it each too much power if you use 4second hold of power button to
> >> shut it down from running linux?
> > 
> > With acpi=off this problem don't happening, but a lot of other problem
> > happening (as fan control).
> > 
> > I will try halt my laptop holding power button today and report you
> > tomorrow.
> 
> If I hold power button to force shutdown I don't have this problem with
> battery charge.

Too bad, I can't call the hw terminally broken, then.

If you boot into init=/bin/bash (minimum drivers) will it still
consume too much power after sysrq-o?

-- 
(english) http://www.livejournal.com/~pavelmachek
(cesky, pictures) http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/picture/horses/blog.html

Re: [Bug 10797] Something is consuming power after shutdown

[Henrique de Moraes Holschuh]

On Wed, 11 Jun 2008, Pavel Machek wrote:
> > If I hold power button to force shutdown I don't have this problem with
> > battery charge.
> 
> Too bad, I can't call the hw terminally broken, then.

No, just the ACPI firmware :-)

-- 
  "One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring
  them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond
  where the shadows lie." -- The Silicon Valley Tarot
  Henrique Holschuh

Re: [Bug 10797] Something is consuming power after shutdown

[Renato S. Yamane]

Pavel Machek wrote:
> Renato S. Yamane wrote:
>> Pavel Machek wrote:
>>> does it still happen with acpi=off?
>>
>> With acpi=off this problem don't happening, but a lot of other problem
>> happening (as fan control).
>>
>> If I hold power button to force shutdown I don't have this problem with
>> battery charge.
> 
> Too bad, I can't call the hw terminally broken, then.
> 
> If you boot into init=/bin/bash (minimum drivers) will it still
> consume too much power after sysrq-o?

I hold power button to force shutdown and start with init=/bin/bash, but
this problem still exist :-(

You know about this?:
<http://linux.toshiba-dme.co.jp/linux/eng/develop.htm>

Best regards,
Renato S. Yamane

Re: [Bug 10797] Something is consuming power after shutdown

[Henrique de Moraes Holschuh]

On Sat, 31 May 2008, Pavel Machek wrote:
> (And yes, your hw is broken; on pc it is traditionaly hw
> responsibility to power machine down.)

Something changed in the laptop vendor's minds about this since Vista.
Very new ThinkPads also had this problem (I am not sure it has been
fixed already or not).

We may have to start shutting down every device and bus on our way out
for lunch when told to go into S5, now.  Time will tell.

-- 
  "One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring
  them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond
  where the shadows lie." -- The Silicon Valley Tarot
  Henrique Holschuh