All of lore.kernel.org
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: John Garry <john.garry@linux.dev>
To: Laurence Oberman <loberman@redhat.com>,
	james.bottomley@hansenpartnership.com, mkp@kernel.org
Cc: hare@suse.com, linux-nvme@lists.infradead.org,
	linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org, snitzer@kernel.org,
	jmeneghi@redhat.com, bmarzins@redhat.com,
	dm-devel@lists.linux.dev, hch@lst.de,
	michael.christie@oracle.com
Subject: Re: [PATCH v9 00/29] Native SCSI Multipath support
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2026 09:05:43 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <3332329d-b922-45a4-8333-e8353e983885@linux.dev> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <9b90edc29d5b3be49f5bd0e0ecec5f1701e089bf.camel@redhat.com>

On 11/9/26 20:19, Laurence Oberman wrote:
> I have been testing v9 (your scsi-multipath-v7.4-v9 branch, on
> 7.4-rc1) on real hardware 

Good to know.

> and found two problems with ALUA arrays,
> one in scsi_dh_alua and one in the series itself.
> 
> Setup:
> - HP P2000 G3 FC array, implicit ALUA, two port groups (one per
>    controller)
> - 2 FC HBAs, 2 target ports each, 30 LUNs with 4 paths per LUN
> - scsi_mod.multipath=on, dm-multipath not in use
> - Under dm-multipath, the same LUNs show port group 1 at prio 50
>    (active/optimized) and port group 0 at prio 10
>    (active/non-optimized)
> 
> 1. sdev->access_state is wrong after boot (scsi_dh_alua, not this
>     series)
> 
> After boot, every path read active/optimized in
> /sys/class/scsi_device/H:C:T:L/device/access_state, while sg_rtpg
> reports port group 0 as active/non-optimized. No
> "alua: port group XX state ..." message was logged at all.

In this series, ALUA state really has been ignored. It was felt that 
driving ALUA state and sdev->access_state by device handler ALUA driver 
should should not be relied on for Native SCSI multipath. There had been 
considerable discussion on this on list. I already have the work done 
for ALUA support from some time ago and can be posted once this series 
is accepted.

> 
> Since 50759b881e1d ("scsi: device_handler: alua: Call
> scsi_device_put() from non-atomic context"), alua_rtpg_queue() only
> queues an RTPG if sdev->handler_data is set, but alua_bus_attach()
> sets handler_data after alua_initialize() has tried to queue the
> initial RTPG. That RTPG is dropped, and access_state stays at its
> zeroed default (active/optimized) until something calls
> scsi_dh_activate(). dm-multipath hides this through pg_init; native
> multipath never calls activate, so the series sees every path as
> optimized.
> 
> I have sent a separate fix for this to linux-scsi:
> https://lore.kernel.org/linux-scsi/20261109201120.1067815-1- 
> loberman@redhat.com/
> It is independent of your series, but without it, native multipath
> on ALUA arrays has no correct path state.

Ack

> 
> 2. ANO paths are ranked the same as AO paths
> 
> With the ALUA state corrected (by writing "activate" to dh_state, or
> with the fix above), I/O still went to active/non-optimized paths.
> scsi_multipath_sdev_init() sets mpath_device->access_state to
> MPATH_STATE_OPTIMIZED and nothing updates it, while
> __mpath_find_path(), mpath_round_robin_path() and
> mpath_queue_depth_path() rank paths by that field. Only
> scsi_mpath_is_optimized()/is_disabled() read sdev->access_state.
> 
> With numa, the first path in dev_list wins for every node, and
> dev_list order follows sd probe completion, so for about a third of
> the LUNs the current path was an ANO path. Example, LUN sdn, reads
> completed per path for a 2000 x 1M O_DIRECT dd (:0/:3 AO, :1/:2 ANO
> at the time):
> 
>    sdn:0 0sdn:1 2000sdn:2 0sdn:3 0
> 
> Every read went through the non-owning controller. From the code, for
> these LUNs the numa recheck of is_optimized() fails on every I/O and
> __mpath_find_path() picks the same ANO path again.
> 
> With the change below (a template callback so the selectors use the
> live state), plus the scsi_dh_alua fix, all 30 LUNs pick an AO
> current path at boot, and on LUN sdl (:0/:2 AO, :1/:3 ANO):
> 
>    numa         2000     0     0     0
>    round-robin  1000     0  1000     0
>    queue-depth 18039     0 13961     0   (8 parallel dd, 64k)
> 
> No I/O reached the ANO paths under any policy. This is a test patch to
> show the problem, not a polished change - feel free to fold it in or
> do it differently.

I'll check it. Sounds like a real problem.

As you may know, this code is really a refactoring of the NVMe multipath 
code. The ambition was to have NVMe use libmultipath eventually, so it 
would be good for any change to work for both NVMe and SCSI.

> 
> 3. Smaller points
> 
> - numa with equal NUMA distance uses one path per LUN, so with two AO
>    paths through two HBAs, half the optimized bandwidth is idle (sdl:2
>    above under numa). That matches NVMe, but users coming from
>    dm-multipath service-time will notice. Would round-robin or
>    queue-depth be a better default for SCSI?

Maybe, but round-robin may not be always ideal considering only a bio 
mode of operation is supported and no merging like dm-mpath RQ mode.

> 
> - There are no Documentation/ABI entries for the new sysfs attributes
>    (scsi_mpath_device vpd_id/iopolicy/multipath, delayed_removal_secs,
>    mpath_dev, mpath_numa_nodes, mpath_queue_depth), and the
>    scsi_mod.multipath and multipath_iopolicy parameters are not in
>    kernel-parameters.txt. I have a draft ABI file if useful.

Cool, I would suggest to post if and when this is merged. I would rather 
not post another version of this series. It is just "experimental".

> 
> - There is no userspace tool yet to show heads, paths and ALUA state
>    (the equivalent of multipath -ll or nvme list-subsys). I used a
>    small sysfs script for this testing. Ben, is native SCSI multipath
>    support in multipath-tools planned?

Well, the whole point is that we don't need userspace tools. However, I 
appreciate that there is no general SCSI tooling which could help here. 
I know that Himanshu M did work on a SCSI version of nvme-cli tool 
previously. Martin may know the status of that.

> 
> - CONFIG_SCSI_MULTIPATH/CONFIG_LIBMULTIPATH are only enabled in your
>    branch's x86_64_defconfig, so building from a distro config leaves
>    them off, and scsi_mod.multipath= is silently ignored. Maybe worth a
>    note in the cover letter.

I thought that the kernel warns of unrecognised params (which would 
happen for a relevant module disabled).

> 
> I have not tested failover or path loss yet; I will follow up with
> that and a Tested-by once done.

ok.

Thanks

      reply	other threads:[~2026-11-10  9:05 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 45+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2026-11-08 20:47 [PATCH v9 00/29] Native SCSI Multipath support John Garry
2026-11-08 20:47 ` [PATCH v9 01/29] scsi: core: Clear cmd->flags for terminal queuing error John Garry
2026-11-09 20:49   ` Bart Van Assche
2026-11-08 20:47 ` [PATCH v9 02/29] libmultipath: Add initial framework John Garry
2026-11-08 20:47 ` [PATCH v9 03/29] libmultipath: Add basic gendisk support John Garry
2026-11-08 20:47 ` [PATCH v9 04/29] libmultipath: Add path selection support John Garry
2026-11-08 21:07   ` sashiko-bot
2026-11-08 20:47 ` [PATCH v9 05/29] libmultipath: Add bio handling John Garry
2026-11-08 20:47 ` [PATCH v9 06/29] libmultipath: Add support for mpath_device management John Garry
2026-11-08 20:47 ` [PATCH v9 07/29] libmultipath: Add delayed removal support John Garry
2026-11-08 21:11   ` sashiko-bot
2026-11-08 20:47 ` [PATCH v9 08/29] libmultipath: Add sysfs helpers John Garry
2026-11-08 21:02   ` sashiko-bot
2026-11-08 20:47 ` [PATCH v9 09/29] libmultipath: Add support for block device IOCTL John Garry
2026-11-08 21:09   ` sashiko-bot
2026-11-08 20:47 ` [PATCH v9 10/29] libmultipath: Add mpath_bdev_getgeo() John Garry
2026-11-08 20:47 ` [PATCH v9 11/29] libmultipath: Add mpath_bdev_get_unique_id() John Garry
2026-11-08 20:47 ` [PATCH v9 12/29] scsi-multipath: introduce basic SCSI device support John Garry
2026-11-08 21:02   ` sashiko-bot
2026-11-08 20:47 ` [PATCH v9 13/29] scsi-multipath: introduce scsi_device head structure John Garry
2026-11-08 20:47 ` [PATCH v9 14/29] scsi-multipath: provide sysfs link from to scsi_device John Garry
2026-11-08 20:47 ` [PATCH v9 15/29] scsi-multipath: support iopolicy John Garry
2026-11-08 20:47 ` [PATCH v9 16/29] scsi-multipath: clone each bio John Garry
2026-11-08 20:47 ` [PATCH v9 17/29] scsi-multipath: clear path when device is blocked John Garry
2026-11-08 21:06   ` sashiko-bot
2026-11-08 20:47 ` [PATCH v9 18/29] scsi-multipath: revalidate paths upon device unblock John Garry
2026-11-08 21:08   ` sashiko-bot
2026-11-08 20:47 ` [PATCH v9 19/29] scsi-multipath: failover handling John Garry
2026-11-08 21:15   ` sashiko-bot
2026-11-08 20:47 ` [PATCH v9 20/29] scsi-multipath: provide callbacks for path state John Garry
2026-11-08 21:05   ` sashiko-bot
2026-11-08 20:47 ` [PATCH v9 21/29] scsi-multipath: add scsi_mpath_{start,end}_request() John Garry
2026-11-08 21:28   ` sashiko-bot
2026-11-08 20:47 ` [PATCH v9 22/29] scsi-multipath: update request for terminal request queuing error John Garry
2026-11-08 21:09   ` sashiko-bot
2026-11-08 20:47 ` [PATCH v9 23/29] scsi-multipath: add delayed disk removal support John Garry
2026-11-08 20:47 ` [PATCH v9 24/29] scsi: sd: add multipath disk class John Garry
2026-11-08 20:47 ` [PATCH v9 25/29] scsi: sd: add multipath disk attr groups John Garry
2026-11-08 20:47 ` [PATCH v9 26/29] scsi: sd: support multipath disk John Garry
2026-11-08 21:23   ` sashiko-bot
2026-11-08 20:47 ` [PATCH v9 27/29] scsi: sd: add mpath_dev file John Garry
2026-11-08 20:47 ` [PATCH v9 28/29] scsi: sd: add mpath_numa_nodes dev attribute John Garry
2026-11-08 20:47 ` [PATCH v9 29/29] scsi: sd: add mpath_queue_depth " John Garry
2026-11-09 20:19 ` [PATCH v9 00/29] Native SCSI Multipath support Laurence Oberman
2026-11-10  9:05   ` John Garry [this message]

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=3332329d-b922-45a4-8333-e8353e983885@linux.dev \
    --to=john.garry@linux.dev \
    --cc=bmarzins@redhat.com \
    --cc=dm-devel@lists.linux.dev \
    --cc=hare@suse.com \
    --cc=hch@lst.de \
    --cc=james.bottomley@hansenpartnership.com \
    --cc=jmeneghi@redhat.com \
    --cc=linux-nvme@lists.infradead.org \
    --cc=linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=loberman@redhat.com \
    --cc=michael.christie@oracle.com \
    --cc=mkp@kernel.org \
    --cc=snitzer@kernel.org \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is an external index of several public inboxes,
see mirroring instructions on how to clone and mirror
all data and code used by this external index.