[parisc-linux] HP-UX random number generator?

[parisc-linux] HP-UX random number generator?

[Peter A. Peterson II]

I'm awaiting the day when I can fool around with Linux on my E-45, but
in the meantime, I'm trying to use it's tape drive to back up my
traditional Linux boxen via piping a tarball through ssh.  However, ssh 
needs a random generator (like /dev/urandom/) and I don't know what an 
HP-UX equivalent might be, or how to go about installing one. 

Any ideas?

pedro

-- 
-----------------------------------------------
      "She's laughin in her sleeve, boys;
   I can feel it in my bones."  -- Tom Waits
-----------------------------------------------

Re: [parisc-linux] HP-UX random number generator?

[Sandy Harris]

"Peter A. Peterson II" wrote:
> 
> I'm awaiting the day when I can fool around with Linux on my E-45, but
> in the meantime, I'm trying to use it's tape drive to back up my
> traditional Linux boxen via piping a tarball through ssh.  However, ssh
> needs a random generator (like /dev/urandom/) and I don't know what an
> HP-UX equivalent might be, or how to go about installing one.
> 
Since you want to use it for crypto, this is a fairly difficult
problem. The numbers don't just need to have a nice distribution;
they have to be highly unpredictable, even to the cleverest, most
persistent and best-equipped opponent you might encounter.

The standard reference is RFC 1750.

A page with quite a lot of discussion of Linux /dev/random is at:
http://www.openpgp.net/random/index.html
There's a bunch more in Linux kernel mailing list archives.

Bruce Schneier and a few others have done quite a bit of research on
weaknesses of random number generators and  designed a generator called
Yarrow. Source (Windows only last I looked) is freely available from
counterpane.com.

Re: [parisc-linux] HP-UX random number generator?

[Peter A. Peterson II]

Quoting Sandy Harris:
> "Peter A. Peterson II" wrote:
> Since you want to use it for crypto, this is a fairly difficult
> problem. The numbers don't just need to have a nice distribution;
> they have to be highly unpredictable, even to the cleverest, most
> persistent and best-equipped opponent you might encounter.

This is quite true... but for now, I'd settle on making ssh work,
since there is nothing of great value on the HP box, I'm just looking
for a way to kludge ssh into working.

> 
> The standard reference is RFC 1750.
> 
> A page with quite a lot of discussion of Linux /dev/random is at:
> http://www.openpgp.net/random/index.html
> There's a bunch more in Linux kernel mailing list archives.
> 
> Bruce Schneier and a few others have done quite a bit of research on
> weaknesses of random number generators and  designed a generator called
> Yarrow. Source (Windows only last I looked) is freely available from
> counterpane.com.

I will look into this -- thanks.

pedro

-- 
-----------------------------------------------
      "She's laughin in her sleeve, boys;
   I can feel it in my bones."  -- Tom Waits
-----------------------------------------------

Re: [parisc-linux] HP-UX random number generator?

[phi]

"Peter A. Peterson II" wrote:

> 
> This is quite true... but for now, I'd settle on making ssh work,
> since there is nothing of great value on the HP box, I'm just looking
> for a way to kludge ssh into working.
> 

I downloaded ssh-1.2.27 a mounth ago or so on my HP-UX box, and used it
to connect to my web provider (a linux machine), and it ran like a
champ.

So go grab it, nothing to kludge, compile/link/run.

Phi

Re: [parisc-linux] HP-UX random number generator?

[Andrew Shugg]

Peter A. Peterson II said:
> This is quite true... but for now, I'd settle on making ssh work,
> since there is nothing of great value on the HP box, I'm just looking
> for a way to kludge ssh into working.

I know that on Solaris a /dev/urandom device is provided by the SKI packages.
There may be an equivalent under the HPUX environment but I am not sure, I am
not very far up the HPUX guru ladder.

You might like to consider using OpenSSH if you don't have any joy with ssh.

OpenSSH can be compiled[1] without a /dev/*random device by using egd[2], the
Entropy Gathering Daemon.  OpenSSH also requires installation of zlib and
openssl though (which is just a bit more effort, but oh well).  I've not used
egd so can't comment on it, but it's probably worth a go.

Or you could just fall back on rsh.  =)

Andrew.

[1] http://www.openssh.com/portable.html
[2] http://www.lothar.com/tech/crypto/

--
Andrew Shugg <andrew@neep.com.au>                http://www.neep.com.au/

  "Just remember Basil, there's always someone worse off than yourself."
  "Oh, really?  I'd like to meet him ... I could do with a good laugh."
                 [ Sybil and Basil Fawlty, "Fawlty Towers" ]

Re: [parisc-linux] HP-UX random number generator?

[Peter A. Peterson II]

Quoting Andrew Shugg:
> You might like to consider using OpenSSH if you don't have any joy with ssh.
> 
> OpenSSH can be compiled[1] without a /dev/*random device by using egd[2], the
> Entropy Gathering Daemon.  OpenSSH also requires installation of zlib and
> openssl though (which is just a bit more effort, but oh well).  I've not used
> egd so can't comment on it, but it's probably worth a go.

I was incorrectly specific. I installed openssh, zlib, and ssleay
already, and in the configure process for openssh it crapped out 
looking for /dev/urandom and/or egd. I think i'll look into egd. 

Thanks all.

pedro

-- 
-----------------------------------------------
      "She's laughin in her sleeve, boys;
   I can feel it in my bones."  -- Tom Waits
-----------------------------------------------

RE: [parisc-linux] HP-UX random number generator?

[FINK,MARTIN (HP-FtCollins,ex1)]

Peter -

Sorry to disappoint - /dev/random /dev/urandom are not available
on HP-UX.  Lots of internal discussions inside HP on how/when
to make it available.  No dates.

Martin

+=================================================================+
| Martin Fink                 | E-mail: martin_fink@hp.com        |
| UNIX Systems Enablement Lab | Phone:  970-898-7076              |
| Hewlett-Packard Co.         | FAX:    970-898-2838              |
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| Ft. Collins, CO             | Page:   9702152451@mobile.att.net |
| 80528, USA                  | Web:    http://www.hp.com/        |
+=================================================================+    
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter A. Peterson II [mailto:pedro@flynn.zork.net]
> Sent: Monday, May 29, 2000 1:50 AM
> To: parisc-linux@thepuffingroup.com
> Subject: [parisc-linux] HP-UX random number generator?
> 
> 
> I'm awaiting the day when I can fool around with Linux on my E-45, but
> in the meantime, I'm trying to use it's tape drive to back up my
> traditional Linux boxen via piping a tarball through ssh.  
> However, ssh 
> needs a random generator (like /dev/urandom/) and I don't 
> know what an 
> HP-UX equivalent might be, or how to go about installing one. 
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> pedro
> 
> -- 
> -----------------------------------------------
>       "She's laughin in her sleeve, boys;
>    I can feel it in my bones."  -- Tom Waits
> -----------------------------------------------
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------
> To unsubscribe: send e-mail to 
> parisc-linux-request@thepuffingroup.com with
> `unsubscribe' as the subject.
> 

Re: [parisc-linux] HP-UX random number generator?

[Peter A. Peterson II]

Martin --

I got egd installed and working properly, but now openssh craps out
under 'make install' because of:
[gumby(~/openssh-1.2.2)] sudo make install
        gcc -g -O2 -Wall -I/usr/local/ssl/include -D_HPUX_SOURCE
-DETCDIR=\"/usr/local/etc\" -DSc
In file included from config.h:336,
                 from includes.h:22,
                 from atomicio.c:26:
defines.h:93: parse error before `u_int64_t'
defines.h:93: warning: data definition has no type or storage class
*** Error exit code 1

Stop.
[gumby(~/openssh-1.2.2)]

This machine is running HP-UX 10. Would you know how to go about
adding the proper definitions to the types.h file?

(Or where I could read about how to do it?)

Thanks a lot,
Peter


Quoting FINK,MARTIN (HP-FtCollins,ex1):
> Peter -
> 
> Sorry to disappoint - /dev/random /dev/urandom are not available
> on HP-UX.  Lots of internal discussions inside HP on how/when
> to make it available.  No dates.
> 
> Martin
> 
> > 
> > I'm awaiting the day when I can fool around with Linux on my E-45, but
> > in the meantime, I'm trying to use it's tape drive to back up my
> > traditional Linux boxen via piping a tarball through ssh.  
> > However, ssh 
> > needs a random generator (like /dev/urandom/) and I don't 
> > know what an 
> > HP-UX equivalent might be, or how to go about installing one. 
> > 
> > Any ideas?
> > 
> > pedro

-- 
-----------------------------------------------
      "She's laughin in her sleeve, boys;
   I can feel it in my bones."  -- Tom Waits
-----------------------------------------------

Re: [parisc-linux] HP-UX random number generator?

[Peter A. Peterson II]

Guh. Sorry all.

-pedro

Re: [parisc-linux] HP-UX random number generator?

[Barrie Spence]

"Peter A. Peterson II" <pedro@flynn.zork.net> wrote:
> Quoting Andrew Shugg:
> > You might like to consider using OpenSSH if you don't have any joy with ssh.
> > 
> > OpenSSH can be compiled[1] without a /dev/*random device by using egd[2], the
> > Entropy Gathering Daemon.  OpenSSH also requires installation of zlib and
> > openssl though (which is just a bit more effort, but oh well).  I've not used
> > egd so can't comment on it, but it's probably worth a go.
> 
> I was incorrectly specific. I installed openssh, zlib, and ssleay
> already, and in the configure process for openssh it crapped out 
> looking for /dev/urandom and/or egd. I think i'll look into egd. 

AFIAK, the more recent versions of openssh aren't supposed to need
/dev/urandom (or egd) when used with openssl-0.9.5.

Barrie


--
Barrie Spence			Sanity Clause? There is no Sanity Clause
Home: b.spence@ieee.org		Telephone +44 1506 442304
Play: barrie_spence@agilent.com