Re: General Users

Re: General Users

[Westerman, Mark]

I am not worried about user Profile Management or any type 
of group management.

The issues is the actual SELinux policy management.
When you create the policy from the policy
rules the binary file is store in /ss_policy. To add a 
user to the system now you must:
	1. Add the user to the system
	2. Add the user to the file SELinux/policy/users
		user xxxx roles { user_r };
	3. Rebuild the policy file.
		make install
	4. Load the new policy into the kernel or reboot.
		load_policy /ss_policy
	5. Add the user to the /etc/security/default_context
	6. Add the user to the /etc/security/cron_context


Some of the problems I will have with this type of implementation is
	1. I do not believe that the load_policy will be allowed on the 
         general workstation (security reasons) . That leaves only reboot. 
	2. Rebuild the policy file for hundred workstation is not a feasible

	   implementation. 
	3. The policy files will the same for each workstations so a push of
         the policy files is ok. (this will be performed via encryption)
	4. As stated early password will be distributed via NIS (legacy
reasons
         not an option to change).

Any more Ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated

Mark Westerman

--
You have received this message because you are subscribed to the selinux list.
If you no longer wish to subscribe, send mail to majordomo@tycho.nsa.gov with
the words "unsubscribe selinux" without quotes as the message.

Re: General Users

[Shaun Savage]

Westerman, Mark wrote:

To sum it up you want dynamic user add or daily policy update.

here is a kluge idea:
create a new push/pull program to down load the policy daily, using what 
ever security you need.
create a policy to allow this program to load the new policy.  here 
again you define the security needed.
create a script to generate the "user" file and make the new policy 
ready to send

now the get_user_sids would work in getting the default context/sid

The problem here is this push/pull program would need to be protected. 
 by selinux policy and encryption.  

The better way would be to allow dynamic user add.  When a user logins 
in, the nis information sent back to the client has a selinux group. 
this selinux group allows a user different user rights but the policy 
lookup is dependent on the group and user.  group_sid + dymanic_user = sid

user_group:user_r:user_t  where user is the user name and group is the 
group name.

user = zot and group = student
zot_student:user_r:user_t
thr group 'student' is defined in the  policy.
 
This would require new syscalls,  sid= new_user(name, group, context), 
and del_user(sid)  

Shaun
 

>I am not worried about user Profile Management or any type 
>of group management.
>
>The issues is the actual SELinux policy management.
>When you create the policy from the policy
>rules the binary file is store in /ss_policy. To add a 
>user to the system now you must:
>	1. Add the user to the system
>	2. Add the user to the file SELinux/policy/users
>		user xxxx roles { user_r };
>	3. Rebuild the policy file.
>		make install
>	4. Load the new policy into the kernel or reboot.
>		load_policy /ss_policy
>	5. Add the user to the /etc/security/default_context
>	6. Add the user to the /etc/security/cron_context
>
>
>Some of the problems I will have with this type of implementation is
>	1. I do not believe that the load_policy will be allowed on the 
>         general workstation (security reasons) . That leaves only reboot. 
>	2. Rebuild the policy file for hundred workstation is not a feasible
>
>	   implementation. 
>	3. The policy files will the same for each workstations so a push of
>         the policy files is ok. (this will be performed via encryption)
>	4. As stated early password will be distributed via NIS (legacy
>reasons
>         not an option to change).
>
>Any more Ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated
>
>Mark Westerman
>
>--
>You have received this message because you are subscribed to the selinux list.
>If you no longer wish to subscribe, send mail to majordomo@tycho.nsa.gov with
>the words "unsubscribe selinux" without quotes as the message.
>
>




--
You have received this message because you are subscribed to the selinux list.
If you no longer wish to subscribe, send mail to majordomo@tycho.nsa.gov with
the words "unsubscribe selinux" without quotes as the message.

General Users

[Westerman, Mark]

The current implementation of SELinux requires each user to be listed in the
user policy file
and the default_context. This is great for single purpose server and
workstation machines.
I am currently look at a project that will require hundreds of machines and 
thousands of users. The user name and password are propagated thru NIS. With

the current implement of SELinux this makes the management of the machines
non-workable. Requires to much system administration. User are added and 
removed on a regular basis. We cannot rebuild a policy file for each machine
for the 
addition or removal of a user.


What would be the best way to modify the current implement to create a
standard
user. I was thinking of setting up a standard user for the user policy file
and 
for the default context in the /etc/security (cron and default). I am
looking at modifying
the libsecure to look at the user, if the user is not found in the
default_context file
then assign him the standard user context.


Any suggestions would be great.


Mark Westerman

--
You have received this message because you are subscribed to the selinux list.
If you no longer wish to subscribe, send mail to majordomo@tycho.nsa.gov with
the words "unsubscribe selinux" without quotes as the message.

Re: General Users

[Stephen Smalley]

On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, Westerman, Mark wrote:

> The current implementation of SELinux requires each user to be listed in the
> user policy file and the default_context.

The per-user entries of default_context and cron_context will no longer be
necessary when we migrate to the default_contexts file and the new
libsecure functions.  See my message on that topic from Jan 7th.  I think
that work on the new configuration file and the new libsecure functions
has resumed by the original developer, but I don't know when the migration
will be complete.

> What would be the best way to modify the current implement to create a
> standard
> user. I was thinking of setting up a standard user for the user policy file
> and
> for the default context in the /etc/security (cron and default). I am
> looking at modifying
> the libsecure to look at the user, if the user is not found in the
> default_context file
> then assign him the standard user context.

This approach should work if you merely want to map most users to a single
set of authorized roles and if you are not concerned about using the
SELinux user identity to provide per-user accountability for most users.
Otherwise, you'll need a more sophisticated solution.  If you make
modifications to the libsecure functions, be aware that the old functions
will be obsoleted by the new ones at some point in the future.

--
Stephen D. Smalley, NAI Labs
ssmalley@nai.com




--
You have received this message because you are subscribed to the selinux list.
If you no longer wish to subscribe, send mail to majordomo@tycho.nsa.gov with
the words "unsubscribe selinux" without quotes as the message.

RE: General Users

[Christopher A. Martin]

Would LDAP be a candidate for this...pointing the policy lookup to
directories?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-selinux@tycho.nsa.gov
> [mailto:owner-selinux@tycho.nsa.gov]On
> Behalf Of Westerman, Mark
> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 8:22 AM
> To: selinux@tycho.nsa.gov
> Cc: 'sds@tislabs.com'
> Subject: General Users
>
>
> The current implementation of SELinux requires each user to
> be listed in the
> user policy file
> and the default_context. This is great for single purpose server and
> workstation machines.
> I am currently look at a project that will require hundreds
> of machines and
> thousands of users. The user name and password are propagated
> thru NIS. With
>
> the current implement of SELinux this makes the management of
> the machines
> non-workable. Requires to much system administration. User
> are added and
> removed on a regular basis. We cannot rebuild a policy file
> for each machine
> for the
> addition or removal of a user.
>
>
> What would be the best way to modify the current implement to create a
> standard
> user. I was thinking of setting up a standard user for the
> user policy file
> and
> for the default context in the /etc/security (cron and default). I am
> looking at modifying
> the libsecure to look at the user, if the user is not found in the
> default_context file
> then assign him the standard user context.
>
>
> Any suggestions would be great.
>
>
> Mark Westerman
>
> --
> You have received this message because you are subscribed to
> the selinux list.
> If you no longer wish to subscribe, send mail to
> majordomo@tycho.nsa.gov with
> the words "unsubscribe selinux" without quotes as the message.
>


--
You have received this message because you are subscribed to the selinux list.
If you no longer wish to subscribe, send mail to majordomo@tycho.nsa.gov with
the words "unsubscribe selinux" without quotes as the message.

Re: General Users

[Shaun Savage]

I think a new syntax for checkpolicy is needed.  This new tag would be 
"group"  This tag would the be assigned caps.  Then using kerberos or 
nis the group information is sent with the login.  There are issues I 
see with this

How do you temporary merge that user into the group in the policy.  You 
still want each user to be unique.  "Seperate but equal :-)"

The problem I see with this is "how do you verify the authorization of 
that group to that user"  If that "network" group information can effect 
the policy on that machine, how do you prevent corruption?

Just ideas
Shaun



Westerman, Mark wrote:

>The current implementation of SELinux requires each user to be listed in the
>user policy file
>and the default_context. This is great for single purpose server and
>workstation machines.
>I am currently look at a project that will require hundreds of machines and 
>thousands of users. The user name and password are propagated thru NIS. With
>
>the current implement of SELinux this makes the management of the machines
>non-workable. Requires to much system administration. User are added and 
>removed on a regular basis. We cannot rebuild a policy file for each machine
>for the 
>addition or removal of a user.
>
>
>What would be the best way to modify the current implement to create a
>standard
>user. I was thinking of setting up a standard user for the user policy file
>and 
>for the default context in the /etc/security (cron and default). I am
>looking at modifying
>the libsecure to look at the user, if the user is not found in the
>default_context file
>then assign him the standard user context.
>
>
>Any suggestions would be great.
>
>
>Mark Westerman
>
>--
>You have received this message because you are subscribed to the selinux list.
>If you no longer wish to subscribe, send mail to majordomo@tycho.nsa.gov with
>the words "unsubscribe selinux" without quotes as the message.
>
>




--
You have received this message because you are subscribed to the selinux list.
If you no longer wish to subscribe, send mail to majordomo@tycho.nsa.gov with
the words "unsubscribe selinux" without quotes as the message.

Re: General Users

[Donald Kasper]

You need a profile manager that is network aware.  See the Common Operating
Environment (COE) DISA project, Account Profile Management (APM) utility to
see how they do it.  NSA uses the COE, so its not foreign to them either.
Donald Kasper

----- Original Message -----
From: "Westerman, Mark" <Mark.Westerman@csoconline.com>
To: <selinux@tycho.nsa.gov>
Cc: <sds@tislabs.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 6:21 AM
Subject: General Users


> The current implementation of SELinux requires each user to be listed in
the
> user policy file
> and the default_context. This is great for single purpose server and
> workstation machines.
> I am currently look at a project that will require hundreds of machines
and
> thousands of users. The user name and password are propagated thru NIS.
With
>
> the current implement of SELinux this makes the management of the machines
> non-workable. Requires to much system administration. User are added and
> removed on a regular basis. We cannot rebuild a policy file for each
machine
> for the
> addition or removal of a user.
>
>
> What would be the best way to modify the current implement to create a
> standard
> user. I was thinking of setting up a standard user for the user policy
file
> and
> for the default context in the /etc/security (cron and default). I am
> looking at modifying
> the libsecure to look at the user, if the user is not found in the
> default_context file
> then assign him the standard user context.
>
>
> Any suggestions would be great.
>
>
> Mark Westerman
>
> --
> You have received this message because you are subscribed to the selinux
list.
> If you no longer wish to subscribe, send mail to majordomo@tycho.nsa.gov
with
> the words "unsubscribe selinux" without quotes as the message.


--
You have received this message because you are subscribed to the selinux list.
If you no longer wish to subscribe, send mail to majordomo@tycho.nsa.gov with
the words "unsubscribe selinux" without quotes as the message.

Re: General Users

[Shaun Savage]

Donald Kasper wrote:

>You need a profile manager that is network aware.  See the Common Operating
>Environment (COE) DISA project, Account Profile Management (APM) utility to
>see how they do it.  NSA uses the COE, so its not foreign to them either.
>Donald Kasper
>
I would would like to find out more but some of the pages are 
"restricted" and I can't get to them. I am at the COE Home page.  Also 
is there a linux port or any work being done with linux?

Shaun




--
You have received this message because you are subscribed to the selinux list.
If you no longer wish to subscribe, send mail to majordomo@tycho.nsa.gov with
the words "unsubscribe selinux" without quotes as the message.

Re: General Users

[Donald Kasper]

To be released to the public at this point, no.  DISA has always hated
Linux.  I pitched it to them for two years with no luck at all.  However I
did compile the entire COE on Linux in 1999 and demonstrated the CDSEdit
utility to them then.  This last Fall, I went directly to the Director of
DISA and others in DOD to request a Linux port to support America's computer
infrastructure security.  The argument was that one-third of the Internet
backbone is based on Linux machines according to surveys, and that the COE
as a major security tool should therefore be deployed commercially to
protect the net and commercial computer systems.  This has apparently
generated some interest, as I am now in touch with some folks who have been
asked to cost a Linux port for DOD.
If you want to see what the structure of the COE is, I have scanned the COE
4.1.3.0 baseline source with my Juggernautsearch engine, and posted the
results on www.opencoe.com.  You can download it from there.  Just reading
the file listing you can see what the subsystems are.  I also scanned all
the docs.  Without using the search engine HTML query interface, you can
Grep through it.  This is not the full COE source, as the scan was set to
remove common words.  4.1.3.0 works out to last September's build.
Hey, name that security system that is the baseline for NSA computer system
worldwide?  (A) SELinux, (B) The COE.   Answer: As of last September, it is
the COE.
Not only can the COE run accounts over a network, it can do so over mixed
networks.  It runs cross-platform under UNIX (many flavors esp. HP and SUN),
and Windows NT and 2000.  So you can sit on a SUN and administer PC's on the
net.  If you use NT, it knows all about primary/backup domain controllers
(PDC's and BDC's) that were used in that architecture to administer nets.
The key limitation on use of the COE with SELinux is DISA mentality that
releasing source code is not secure.  At least that is their justification
for not doing so.  Amazing that NSA has just the opposite view.
A Linux build of the COE may be in your future for 2002.
As for network distribution and maintenance of software, the Jet Propulsion
Laboratory in Pasadena, CA (they develop the COE Kernel) has had an ongoing
Java Community Process project for a year or so to develop a Java app that
can distribute software over a net.  It was supposed to be signed, sealed,
and delivered to DOD at the first of this year for use in the COE.  I have
not followed up on that.  My quick-and-simple solution was to write a
utility called COEAnywhere, a tool that allows a client to compare all of
its COE software segments to a master on a server.  A comparison table is
built so the user can dowload desired segments.  All pure JPL software for
DOD is 100% in the public domain, so I have posted that on my opencoe site.
Maybe it will help you.
Regards,
Donald Kasper

----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Savage" <savages@pcez.com>
To: "Donald Kasper" <kasper@1stconnect.com>
Cc: <selinux@tycho.nsa.gov>
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 2:02 PM
Subject: Re: General Users


> Donald Kasper wrote:
>
> >You need a profile manager that is network aware.  See the Common
Operating
> >Environment (COE) DISA project, Account Profile Management (APM) utility
to
> >see how they do it.  NSA uses the COE, so its not foreign to them either.
> >Donald Kasper
> >
> I would would like to find out more but some of the pages are
> "restricted" and I can't get to them. I am at the COE Home page.  Also
> is there a linux port or any work being done with linux?
>
> Shaun
>
>
>
>
> --
> You have received this message because you are subscribed to the selinux
list.
> If you no longer wish to subscribe, send mail to majordomo@tycho.nsa.gov
with
> the words "unsubscribe selinux" without quotes as the message.


--
You have received this message because you are subscribed to the selinux list.
If you no longer wish to subscribe, send mail to majordomo@tycho.nsa.gov with
the words "unsubscribe selinux" without quotes as the message.