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From: Andrew Morton <akpm@zip.com.au>
To: Dave Hansen <haveblue@us.ibm.com>
Cc: Robert Love <rml@tech9.net>, Martin Wirth <Martin.Wirth@dlr.de>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, mingo@elte.hu, nigel@nrg.org
Subject: Re: [RFC] New locking primitive for 2.5
Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 12:06:22 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <3C62DE3E.DE15CAF2@zip.com.au> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <3C629F91.2869CB1F@dlr.de>,		<3C629F91.2869CB1F@dlr.de> <1013107259.10430.29.camel@phantasy> <3C62D49A.4CBB6295@zip.com.au> <3C62DABA.3020906@us.ibm.com>

Dave Hansen wrote:
> 
> Andrew Morton wrote:
> > Robert Love wrote:
> >>On Thu, 2002-02-07 at 10:38, Martin Wirth wrote:
> >>Some of the talk I've heard has been toward an adaptive lock.  These are
> >>locks like Solaris's that can spin or sleep, usually depending on the
> >>state of the lock's holder.  Another alternative, which I prefer since
> >>it is much less overhead, is a lock that spins-then-sleeps
> >>unconditionally.
> > I dunno.  The spin-a-bit-then-sleep lock has always struck me as
> > i_dont_know_what_the_fuck_im_doing_lock().  Martin's approach puts
> > the decision in the hands of the programmer, rather than saying
> > "Oh gee I goofed" at runtime.
> 
> The spin-then-sleep lock could be interesting as a replacement for the
> BKL in places where a semaphore causes performance degredation.  In
> quite a few places where we replaced the BKL with a more finely grained
> semapore (not a spinlock because we needed to sleep during the hold),
> instead of spinning for a bit, it would schedule instead.  This was bad
> :).  Spin-then-sleep would be great behaviour in this situation.

But surely you *knew*, from inspection, which code paths needed
a spinning lock, and which code paths needed a sleeping lock?

Assuming the answer is "yes" then a nice fix would be to use
two separate locks - one which spins and one which sleeps.

Now, if the resource which is being protected truly cannot
be split up into spin-protected and sleep-protected sections
then a lock which can be atomically converted from spinning to
sleeping at the programmer's discretion seems appropriate.

A dynamic lock which says "we've spun for too long, let's sleep"
seems to be a tradeoff between programmer effort and efficiency,
and a bad one at that.

Possibly the locks could become more adaptive, and could, at
each call site, "learn" the expected spintime.  But it all seems
too baroque to me.

-

  reply	other threads:[~2002-02-07 20:07 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 61+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2002-02-07 15:38 [RFC] New locking primitive for 2.5 Martin Wirth
2002-02-07 18:04 ` Daniel Phillips
2002-02-07 18:06   ` Richard Gooch
2002-02-07 18:22 ` Christoph Hellwig
2002-02-07 19:33   ` Daniel Phillips
2002-02-07 19:55   ` Mark Frazer
2002-02-08 12:24   ` Denis Vlasenko
2002-02-07 18:40 ` Robert Love
2002-02-07 19:25   ` Andrew Morton
2002-02-07 19:51     ` Dave Hansen
2002-02-07 20:06       ` Andrew Morton [this message]
2002-02-07 20:11         ` Robert Love
2002-02-07 21:27     ` Ingo Molnar
2002-02-07 19:59       ` Andrew Morton
2002-02-08  8:20     ` Nigel Gamble
2002-02-08 17:06       ` Larry McVoy
2002-02-07 19:58   ` yodaiken
2002-02-07 20:08     ` Robert Love
2002-02-07 20:15       ` yodaiken
2002-02-07 20:20         ` Robert Love
2002-02-07 20:36           ` yodaiken
2002-02-07 20:57             ` Daniel Phillips
2002-02-07 21:00               ` yodaiken
2002-02-07 21:10                 ` Daniel Phillips
2002-02-07 20:49   ` Martin Wirth
2002-02-08  8:34   ` Martin Wirth
2002-02-08 18:28     ` Linus Torvalds
2002-02-08 18:12       ` Martin Wirth
2002-02-08 18:33         ` Alexander Viro
2002-02-08 20:02         ` Linus Torvalds
2002-02-08 18:54           ` Andrew Morton
2002-02-08 19:11             ` Linus Torvalds
2002-02-08 19:21               ` Alexander Viro
2002-02-08 19:36                 ` Robert Love
2002-02-09  0:18                   ` Alexander Viro
2002-02-08 21:23                 ` Ingo Molnar
2002-02-08 21:36                   ` Linus Torvalds
2002-02-08 20:04                     ` Jeff Garzik
2002-02-08 21:16                       ` Mike Fedyk
2002-02-09  0:09                         ` Alan Cox
2002-02-09  0:05                           ` Mike Fedyk
2002-02-08 21:40                       ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2002-02-09 19:32                         ` Linus Torvalds
2002-02-07 19:56 ` yodaiken
2002-02-07 22:09   ` Ingo Molnar
2002-02-07 20:31     ` yodaiken
2002-02-07 20:57       ` Andrew Morton
2002-02-07 21:02         ` yodaiken
2002-02-08 12:31     ` Christoph Hellwig
2002-02-08 16:51       ` Nigel Gamble
2002-02-08 18:41       ` Andrew Morton
2002-02-08 20:47         ` Ingo Molnar
2002-02-08 18:56           ` Alexander Viro
2002-02-08 20:59             ` Ingo Molnar
2002-02-08 19:10               ` Alexander Viro
2002-02-08 20:14       ` Anton Altaparmakov
2002-02-08 20:38         ` yodaiken
2002-02-08 21:55         ` Anton Altaparmakov
2002-02-08 12:47   ` Denis Vlasenko
2002-02-08 15:13     ` yodaiken
2002-02-08 19:22 ` Horst von Brand

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