Re: which distribution to use?

Re: which distribution to use?

[Jose Luis Alarcon]

--- Richard Adams <pa3gcu@zeelandnet.nl> wrote:
>On Sunday 26 May 2002 09:58, Jose Luis Alarcon wrote:
>> --- Richard Adams <pa3gcu@zeelandnet.nl> wrote:
>> >On Friday 24 May 2002 21:40, Matthew Stapleton wrote:
>> >> Say someone, like myself, did not like windows and wanted a more Unix
>> >> type experience or environment.  Would you suggest Debian or Slackware?
>> >> I actually want to try to learn about the system and not just point and
>> >> click.
>> >
>> >Slackware
>>
>>   Debian. ;-).
>
>I stand by my statement, if one wants to learn how linux works, use 
>slackware, its the only system that allows you to install what "you" want and 
>not what the system wants, try that with all other distro's.
>
>Try installing debian, redhat, mandrake, suse on a system with low memory.
>Slackware can be installed on an old machine with 8MB, others cant.
>Slackware is operator dependant, that means configure things like X yourself 
>if you want too, most all other distro's do it for you, so you see with those 
>other distro's you "dont" learn linux as good as you do when one uses 
>Slackware period.
>

  Hi Richard.

  I think i understand what you say about "what you want and 
not what the system wants". Now i'm in a case with my Mandrake:
i like experimenting with the unestable kernels, and i was trying
install 2.5.17 kernel.

  But the matter is that Mandrake have enabled by default the DevFS
feature and the 2.5 serie have still a lot of problems with DevFS.

  Now i'm in a crossway. If i disable DevFS i loose many Mandrake
services that depends of it. Or i can choose not probe yet the 2.5
kernels serie, until DevFS gets work fine.

  This happens, in my opinion, cos the system is very "rigid" and
there are few "true" possibilitys of personalize it.

  Maybe one day, in the future, i will take the decision of try
Slackware, who knows. :-).

  Regards.

  Jose.  

Debian GNU/Linux 'Sid' Kernel 2.4.17 Ext3.
Mandrake Linux 8.2 Kernel 2.4.17 ReiserFS.
Registered Linux User #213309.
Memories..... You are talking about memories. 
Rick Deckard. Blade Runner.

_____________________________________________________________
Linux for the Desktop
Software, Setup, chat & email.
http://www.linuxnobis.com

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Re: which distribution to use?

[Chuck Gelm]

<snip>
> install 2.5.17 kernel.
<snip> 

IMHO, 2.5.x kernels should not be discussed in linux-newbie.
:-|
Chuck
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Re: which distribution to use?

[Richard Adams]

On Monday 27 May 2002 13:34, Chuck Gelm wrote:
> <snip>
>
> > install 2.5.17 kernel.
>
> <snip>
>
> IMHO, 2.5.x kernels should not be discussed in linux-newbie.

How correct you are in your humble opinion Chuck.

>
> :-|
>
> Chuck

-- 
Regards Richard
pa3gcu@zeelandnet.nl
http://people.zeelandnet.nl/pa3gcu/

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Which distribution to use?

[herbert]

Hi there!

I just got an Ultra-30 and an Ultra-10 for myself at home. I want to install Linux on at least on of the two machines.

All I did find on the web about Linux on Sparc seems to be about 2-3 years old, which makes me somewhat sad...

Which is the distribution that supports currently those boxes best?

I'd like to have (due to very little spare time) an almost hassle-free
installation. I'm used to SuSE, Knoppix, Slackware and RedHat (experience decreases in that order) and of course lots of Solaris (any).

I'd like to try Gentoo (is there a port to Sparc?), but have had some troubles in installing Debian on x86, so I shy a little away from that...

By the way, they both have a Creator 3D card and I'd like to use that, too...

And, last but not least: Anything special about the compilers?

Any recommendations?


Best regards,

Herbert

"Think. - This part is not optional." - Pavel Honzek in a cluster course :-)

Re: Which distribution to use?

[Josh Grebe]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Herbert,

http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/base/sparc/
http://www.debian.org/ports/sparc/

ultralinux.org is really out of date.

Josh


herbert@wengatz.de wrote:
> Hi there!
> 
> I just got an Ultra-30 and an Ultra-10 for myself at home. I want to install Linux on at least on of the two machines.
> 
> All I did find on the web about Linux on Sparc seems to be about 2-3 years old, which makes me somewhat sad...
> 
> Which is the distribution that supports currently those boxes best?
> 
> I'd like to have (due to very little spare time) an almost hassle-free
> installation. I'm used to SuSE, Knoppix, Slackware and RedHat (experience decreases in that order) and of course lots of Solaris (any).
> 
> I'd like to try Gentoo (is there a port to Sparc?), but have had some troubles in installing Debian on x86, so I shy a little away from that...
> 
> By the way, they both have a Creator 3D card and I'd like to use that, too...
> 
> And, last but not least: Anything special about the compilers?
> 
> Any recommendations?
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Herbert
> 
> "Think. - This part is not optional." - Pavel Honzek in a cluster course :-)
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe sparclinux" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> 
> !DSPAM:42821d75236001595214498!
> 
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Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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Re: Which distribution to use?

[Brian Bartholomew]

> I just got an Ultra-30 and an Ultra-10 for myself at home. I want to
> install Linux on at least on of the two machines.
>
> All I did find on the web about Linux on Sparc seems to be about 2-3
> years old, which makes me somewhat sad...
>
> Which is the distribution that supports currently those boxes best?

I'm running a university department with Sun desktops on Gentoo
2004.0, soon to be 2005.something.  The mail server is a Sun 420 which
now runs Linux, and the other 450s will follow:

	+-----+-----------+
	| cnt | hostkind  |
	+-----+-----------+
	|  18 | Ultra1    |
	|  12 | Ultra5b   | different speeds
	|  11 | Ultra5a   |  "
	|   3 | Ultra5d   |  "
	|   2 | Ultra5e   |  "
	|   1 | Ultra5c   |  "
	|   1 | 420R      |
	|   1 | E-450a    | different configurations
	|   1 | E-450b    |  "
	|   1 | Ultra10b  |
	+-----+-----------+

When I went through the Linux selection process, I looked at suse, red
hat, debian, and then used gentoo, which was the only one that I could
get current software on.  It helps that our central services group
uses Gentoo, and the US mirror is here.  I have close to source-
identical systems on Sparc and Intel, and with the next upgrade will
have truly identical ones.

> I'd like to have (due to very little spare time) an almost
> hassle-free installation.

Ha.  The Gentoo install is an experience from years ago.  Here's your
root prompt, happy fdisking.  On top of that all versions of packages
won't compile on sparc.  I've perservered and now have a happy system.

> By the way, they both have a Creator 3D card and I'd like to use that, too...

I'm running X on Ultra 10s that have that card, but I don't know if
it's using any of the acceleration.

> And, last but not least: Anything special about the compilers?

The kernel uses a different gcc than user space, one is 32 bit and the
other 64, I forget which way, but it all just works.  This may have
changed with kernel 2.6 or later versions of gentoo, I don't know yet.

							Brian

Re: Which distribution to use?

[Ben Collins]

> I'd like to have (due to very little spare time) an almost hassle-free
> installation. I'm used to SuSE, Knoppix, Slackware and RedHat (experience decreases in that order) and of course lots of Solaris (any).

Give the Debian testing install a try. It's about a month away from
release, so it is very stable (all my sparc's are running it). The new
installer is nothing like the Debian you may have experienced before
(difficult and painstaking).

-- 
Debian     - http://www.debian.org/
Linux 1394 - http://www.linux1394.org/
Subversion - http://subversion.tigris.org/

Re: Which distribution to use?

[Steve Pacenka]

On Wed, 2005-05-11 at 16:56 +0200, herbert@wengatz.de wrote:

> I just got an Ultra-30 and an Ultra-10 for myself at home. I want to
> install Linux on at least on of the two machines.
> 
> All I did find on the web about Linux on Sparc seems to be about 2-3
> years old, which makes me somewhat sad...
> 
> Which is the distribution that supports currently those boxes best?

The Debian Sparc port, Sarge distribution as snapshotted in the current
"testing" release, serves me very well.  I run it on U2, U5, U10, and
U60 boxes in office, home, and volunteer computer rehab contexts.  The
U10 has been tracking Debian Sarge for around three years with almost no
problems from incremental upgrades.  A second U10 will join it soon to
replace an x86 samba+nfs+httpd+imapd server.

There are probably not be enough Sparc Linux users to merit having
better organized and more frequently updated WWW sites specialized to
this platform and OS.  Too bad.

The Debian Sparc mailing list archives are a very good resource.


> I'd like to have (due to very little spare time) an almost hassle-free
> installation. I'm used to SuSE, Knoppix, Slackware and RedHat
> (experience decreases in that order) and of course lots of Solaris
> (any).

If you haven't tried installing from Sarge/testing in the last six
months, you will be pleasantly surprised with progress in the installer.

Starting from a "businesscard" or "net install" bootable ISO of Sarge,
it takes a few minutes of initial interaction to get the install going,
then a wait of an hour or hours (depending on one's internet connection
speed) while the base install downloads and configures.  Interaction
resumes to reboot using the kernel just installed on the hard drive,
then interaction completes after a few minutes of selection of packages
or package groups to install beyond the base.  Then go to bed while it
installs the selected packages.

With recent installers, it takes me about three hours with a DSL @
190K/sec download connection to get a minimal GNOME desktop running on a
U5 or U10's bare hardware.  Most of this time is spent waiting for the
download/unpack/install.

Time savings come when updating.  "apt-get update", "apt-get
dist-upgrade" refreshes every installed package with security and other
updates, which can be voluminous if you track testing=Sarge and have a
lot of packages installed, or if it is a couple of months since the last
mass update.

> I'd like to try Gentoo (is there a port to Sparc?), but have had some
> troubles in installing Debian on x86, so I shy a little away from
> that...

Debian has been so flexible and robust for me that I haven't felt a need
to try Gentoo's port to UltraSparc.


> By the way, they both have a Creator 3D card and I'd like to use that,
> too...

My U60 and U2 have Creator 3D's, suppored by the kernel for console use
and by XFree86 via the "ffb" driver.  Dual-headed X between the Creator
3D and motherboard video should be possible; I did Elite 3D +
motherboard concurrently on the U10.


> And, last but not least: Anything special about the compilers?

If special means "can compile several thousand packages of the Debian
Sparc collection successfully," then gcc 3.3 on Sparc is darned special.
gcc-3.4, 2.95, and 4.0 are also packaged.

-- SP

which distribution to use?

[Steven Blakeslee]

I was hoping someone could recommend which MIPS Distributions to use to
cross compile a MIPS kernel.  The host computer is x86 running Redhat and
the target is an Embedded MIPS system.  The distrubtions that I was looking
at seem to be for a mips system running Redhat.

Thank you,
Steve Blakeslee 

Re: which distribution to use?

[geoff]

Is anyone able to compare (say) Slackware Linux with any other UNIX clones
such as FreeBSD ?

From a learning point of view, I guess it depends on what it is that you
wish to learn.

Best regards.

Geoff Bagley
G3FHL


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Re: which distribution to use?

[David Benfell]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2503 bytes --]

On Tue, 28 May 2002 16:10:50 +0100, geoff wrote:
> Is anyone able to compare (say) Slackware Linux with any other UNIX clones
> such as FreeBSD ?
> 
> From a learning point of view, I guess it depends on what it is that you
> wish to learn.
> 
Comparing BSDs with Linux is a little difficult to do objectively.
All claim to be powerful, reliable, and secure.  And all are,
certainly relative to Windows.

The choice of an operating system depends heavily on what you actually
plan to do with that operating system.  Few operating systems are set
up "for learning."

For servers and routers, I choose OpenBSD.  For desktop systems, I
choose Linux.

I've been told that FreeBSD is a great server system, but not so great
for desktop use.  This apparently defies the experience of some people
I know, one of whom uses FreeBSD on his laptop.  And if I were in the
position of having to support a large number of desktops, I would take
a hard look at FreeBSD simply because I prefer its flavor of package
management.

My impression is that of the BSDs, FreeBSD has the most going for it
in the way of driver development for odd hardware.  I'm guessing that
Linux is still ahead here, though, due both to manufacturer support
and the sheer number of people working on it.

I'm presently writing this on a laptop which doesn't support Linux
well.  Am I worried?  No.  I figure Linux will catch up with it in
fairly short order.  (Even if it doesn't, it works well enough for my
purposes.)  Would I be so confident with a BSD?  No, even though
FreeBSD probably would work as well on it as Linux does now.

Similarly, I suspect that most of the people doing development for
desktop applications (and probably a bunch of other software) are
using Linux platforms.  The stuff should generally still build under
the BSDs; sometimes you might have to use gmake (GNU make), and
I guess there will be instances where the porting just won't work.

I haven't mentioned NetBSD.  I haven't played with it at all, nor do I
know anyone who has.  Its main claim to fame seems to be in the
diversity of platforms it will run on.  They really work on this.

So you see, the choice of operating system has little do do with a
"learning experience."  It has much more to do with how each meshes
with your needs (for each given system) and style of operation.

-- 
David Benfell, LCP
benfell@parts-unknown.org
---
Resume available at http://www.parts-unknown.org/resume.html

[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 481 bytes --]

Re: which distribution to use?

[Matthew Stapleton]

Incidentally I think I am going to go with Slackware.  I have used it
before and liked it a lot.

Matthew
On Sun, 26 May 2002 11:41:00 +0000 Richard Adams <pa3gcu@zeelandnet.nl>
writes:
> On Sunday 26 May 2002 09:58, Jose Luis Alarcon wrote:
> > --- Richard Adams <pa3gcu@zeelandnet.nl> wrote:
> > >On Friday 24 May 2002 21:40, Matthew Stapleton wrote:
> > >> Say someone, like myself, did not like windows and wanted a 
> more Unix
> > >> type experience or environment.  Would you suggest Debian or 
> Slackware?
> > >> I actually want to try to learn about the system and not just 
> point and
> > >> click.
> > >
> > >Slackware
> >
> >   Debian. ;-).
> 
> I stand by my statement, if one wants to learn how linux works, use 
> 
> slackware, its the only system that allows you to install what "you" 
> want and 
> not what the system wants, try that with all other distro's.
> 
> Try installing debian, redhat, mandrake, suse on a system with low 
> memory.
> Slackware can be installed on an old machine with 8MB, others cant.
> Slackware is operator dependant, that means configure things like X 
> yourself 
> if you want too, most all other distro's do it for you, so you see 
> with those 
> other distro's you "dont" learn linux as good as you do when one 
> uses 
> Slackware period.
> 
> >
> >   Best Regards.
> >
> >   Jose.
> 
> -- 
> Regards Richard
> pa3gcu@zeelandnet.nl
> http://people.zeelandnet.nl/pa3gcu/
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe 
> linux-newbie" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
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> Please read the FAQ at http://www.linux-learn.org/faqs
> 


Matthew Stapleton
...........
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Re: which distribution to use?

[Jose Luis Alarcon]

--- Richard Adams <pa3gcu@zeelandnet.nl> wrote:
>On Friday 24 May 2002 21:40, Matthew Stapleton wrote:
>> Say someone, like myself, did not like windows and wanted a more Unix
>> type experience or environment.  Would you suggest Debian or Slackware?
>> I actually want to try to learn about the system and not just point and
>> click.
>
>Slackware
>

  Debian. ;-).

  Best Regards.

  Jose.

>-- 
>Regards Richard
>pa3gcu@zeelandnet.nl
>http://people.zeelandnet.nl/pa3gcu/
>

Debian GNU/Linux 'Sid' Kernel 2.4.17 Ext3.
Mandrake Linux 8.2 Kernel 2.4.17 ReiserFS.
Registered Linux User #213309.
Memories..... You are talking about memories. 
Rick Deckard. Blade Runner.

_____________________________________________________________
Linux for the Desktop
Software, Setup, chat & email.
http://www.linuxnobis.com

_____________________________________________________________
Promote your group and strengthen ties to your members with email@yourgroup.org by Everyone.net  http://www.everyone.net/?btn=tag
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Re: which distribution to use?

[Richard Adams]

On Sunday 26 May 2002 09:58, Jose Luis Alarcon wrote:
> --- Richard Adams <pa3gcu@zeelandnet.nl> wrote:
> >On Friday 24 May 2002 21:40, Matthew Stapleton wrote:
> >> Say someone, like myself, did not like windows and wanted a more Unix
> >> type experience or environment.  Would you suggest Debian or Slackware?
> >> I actually want to try to learn about the system and not just point and
> >> click.
> >
> >Slackware
>
>   Debian. ;-).

I stand by my statement, if one wants to learn how linux works, use 
slackware, its the only system that allows you to install what "you" want and 
not what the system wants, try that with all other distro's.

Try installing debian, redhat, mandrake, suse on a system with low memory.
Slackware can be installed on an old machine with 8MB, others cant.
Slackware is operator dependant, that means configure things like X yourself 
if you want too, most all other distro's do it for you, so you see with those 
other distro's you "dont" learn linux as good as you do when one uses 
Slackware period.

>
>   Best Regards.
>
>   Jose.

-- 
Regards Richard
pa3gcu@zeelandnet.nl
http://people.zeelandnet.nl/pa3gcu/

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Re: which distribution to use?

[Benny Pedersen]

Originally to: Richard Adams

Hi Richard Adams

you wrote about "which distribution to use?":


 RA> Try installing debian, redhat, mandrake, suse on a system with
 RA> low memory. Slackware can be installed on an old machine with
 RA> 8MB, others cant. Slackware is operator dependant, that means
 RA> configure things like X yourself if you want too, most all other
 RA> distro's do it for you, so you see with those other distro's you
 RA> "dont" learn linux as good as you do when one uses Slackware
 RA> period.

well redhat can run on 8mb period !

but you are right on the slackware, newer tryed it, do i need it ?

how manu do use pc with only 8mb now a days ?

well i have a 386 with just 4mb notebook :)

it runs linux hehe 

it was the only os thats runs with the build in netcard, it has build
in modem 2, so its very powerfull, win3.11 have no suport for this,
win95 is to big for it, i go for linux :)


 Benny Pedersen  http://xpoint.ldnet.dk/  icq:36248146


...Nobody really knows what is going on anywhere in your organization.

<-> Gateway Information.
This message originated from a Fidonet System (http://www.fidonet.org)
and was gated at TCOB1 (http://www.tcob1.net)
Please do not respond direct to this message but via the list


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Re: which distribution to use?

[Cor Lem]

At 14:40 24-5-02 -0700, you wrote:
>Say someone, like myself, did not like windows and wanted a more Unix
>type experience or environment.  Would you suggest Debian or Slackware?
>I actually want to try to learn about the system and not just point and
>click.

Then this may be a good starting point:
http://linuxfromscratch.org/

It describes how to build your own.

Greetz,
Cor Lem

>On Fri, 24 May 2002 12:41:34 -0600 (MDT) <omland@minotaur.colorado.edu>
>writes:
> > Well as a UNIX/linux systems admin. I am forced to work with just
> > about
> > every possible distribution out there, so I'll throw out a couple
> > ideas. My first two suggestions would be for Red Hat or Mandrake.
> > These
> > distro's are almost to the point were'd I give them to my mom and
> > tell her
> > she could use them! =0). The RPM system makes updates and installs
> > so
> > easy, and these seem to be the most popular, and therefore you are
> > more
> > likely to find people with the same problems. However they are a
> > bit
> > "windows" like if you use gnome or KDE. I don't have any exp. with
> > SuSe,
> > come to think of it I probally should try that! Hope this helps.
> > -Chris
> >
> > On Fri, 24 May 2002, Matthew Stapleton wrote:
> >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > I have tried several of the major distributions on my PC over the
> > years.
> > > But I am by no means an expert at using UNIX/Linux.  I want some
> > advice
> > > on the pros and cons of the various distributions.  Possibly any
> > replies
> > > to this could be aimed at Redhat, Slackware, Debian, SUSE,
> > Mandrake etc
> > > as many of the others are based on these.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > >
> > > Matthew Stapleton
> > > ...........



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Re: which distribution to use?

[Matthew Stapleton]

Say someone, like myself, did not like windows and wanted a more Unix
type experience or environment.  Would you suggest Debian or Slackware? 
I actually want to try to learn about the system and not just point and
click.


On Fri, 24 May 2002 12:41:34 -0600 (MDT) <omland@minotaur.colorado.edu>
writes:
> Well as a UNIX/linux systems admin. I am forced to work with just 
> about
> every possible distribution out there, so I'll throw out a couple
> ideas. My first two suggestions would be for Red Hat or Mandrake. 
> These
> distro's are almost to the point were'd I give them to my mom and 
> tell her
> she could use them! =0). The RPM system makes updates and installs 
> so
> easy, and these seem to be the most popular, and therefore you are 
> more
> likely to find people with the same problems. However they are a 
> bit
> "windows" like if you use gnome or KDE. I don't have any exp. with 
> SuSe,
> come to think of it I probally should try that! Hope this helps.
> -Chris
> 
> On Fri, 24 May 2002, Matthew Stapleton wrote:
> 
> > Hello,
> > 
> > I have tried several of the major distributions on my PC over the 
> years. 
> > But I am by no means an expert at using UNIX/Linux.  I want some 
> advice
> > on the pros and cons of the various distributions.  Possibly any 
> replies
> > to this could be aimed at Redhat, Slackware, Debian, SUSE, 
> Mandrake etc
> > as many of the others are based on these.  
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > 
> > 
> > Matthew Stapleton
> > ...........
> >  
> > -
> > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe 
> linux-newbie" in
> > the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> > More majordomo info at  
> http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> > Please read the FAQ at http://www.linux-learn.org/faqs
> > 
> 
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> 


Matthew Stapleton
...........
God would have us know that we must live as men who manage our lives
without him.The God who is with us is the God who forsakes us.The God who
lets us live in the world without the working hypothesis of God is the
God before whom we stand continually.Before God and with God we live
without God. God lets himself be pushed out of the world onto the cross.
--Bonhoeffer
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Re: which distribution to use?

[omland]

I understand what your saying, I'm the exact same way, as I'm still new to
the whole admin thing. Red Hat and Mandrake still offer this. When I
referred to the "windows" like env. I was talking about the window
managers. And RH and Mandrake come with many different window managers,
gnome, kde, ect... The thing is these are just a x windows system. You
still have full access to the entire linux/unix platform through your
terminals, and you dont even need to use the window managers if you dont
want to. You can simply use the shell. The "windows" type system is just
an application running. Its not like MS WINDOWS were it is actually the
whole operating system(I know you can get a dos prompt..but come on! =0) )
Does this help?
-Chris

On Fri, 24 May 2002, Matthew Stapleton wrote:

> Say someone, like myself, did not like windows and wanted a more Unix
> type experience or environment.  Would you suggest Debian or Slackware? 
> I actually want to try to learn about the system and not just point and
> click.
> 
> 
> On Fri, 24 May 2002 12:41:34 -0600 (MDT) <omland@minotaur.colorado.edu>
> writes:
> > Well as a UNIX/linux systems admin. I am forced to work with just 
> > about
> > every possible distribution out there, so I'll throw out a couple
> > ideas. My first two suggestions would be for Red Hat or Mandrake. 
> > These
> > distro's are almost to the point were'd I give them to my mom and 
> > tell her
> > she could use them! =0). The RPM system makes updates and installs 
> > so
> > easy, and these seem to be the most popular, and therefore you are 
> > more
> > likely to find people with the same problems. However they are a 
> > bit
> > "windows" like if you use gnome or KDE. I don't have any exp. with 
> > SuSe,
> > come to think of it I probally should try that! Hope this helps.
> > -Chris
> > 
> > On Fri, 24 May 2002, Matthew Stapleton wrote:
> > 
> > > Hello,
> > > 
> > > I have tried several of the major distributions on my PC over the 
> > years. 
> > > But I am by no means an expert at using UNIX/Linux.  I want some 
> > advice
> > > on the pros and cons of the various distributions.  Possibly any 
> > replies
> > > to this could be aimed at Redhat, Slackware, Debian, SUSE, 
> > Mandrake etc
> > > as many of the others are based on these.  
> > > 
> > > Thanks,
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Matthew Stapleton
> > > ...........
> > >  
> > > -
> > > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe 
> > linux-newbie" in
> > > the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> > > More majordomo info at  
> > http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> > > Please read the FAQ at http://www.linux-learn.org/faqs
> > > 
> > 
> > -
> > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe 
> > linux-newbie" in
> > the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> > More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> > Please read the FAQ at http://www.linux-learn.org/faqs
> > 
> 
> 
> Matthew Stapleton
> ...........
> God would have us know that we must live as men who manage our lives
> without him.The God who is with us is the God who forsakes us.The God who
> lets us live in the world without the working hypothesis of God is the
> God before whom we stand continually.Before God and with God we live
> without God. God lets himself be pushed out of the world onto the cross.
> --Bonhoeffer
> 

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Re: which distribution to use?

[Chuck Gelm]

Matthew Stapleton wrote:
> 
> Say someone, like myself, did not like windows and wanted a more Unix
> type experience or environment.  Would you suggest Debian or Slackware?
> I actually want to try to learn about the system and not just point and
                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Get Slackware.
HTH, Chuck
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Re: which distribution to use?

[Richard Adams]

On Friday 24 May 2002 21:40, Matthew Stapleton wrote:
> Say someone, like myself, did not like windows and wanted a more Unix
> type experience or environment.  Would you suggest Debian or Slackware?
> I actually want to try to learn about the system and not just point and
> click.

Slackware

-- 
Regards Richard
pa3gcu@zeelandnet.nl
http://people.zeelandnet.nl/pa3gcu/

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which distribution to use?

[Matthew Stapleton]

Hello,

I have tried several of the major distributions on my PC over the years. 
But I am by no means an expert at using UNIX/Linux.  I want some advice
on the pros and cons of the various distributions.  Possibly any replies
to this could be aimed at Redhat, Slackware, Debian, SUSE, Mandrake etc
as many of the others are based on these.  

Thanks,


Matthew Stapleton
...........
 
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Re: which distribution to use?

[omland]

Well as a UNIX/linux systems admin. I am forced to work with just about
every possible distribution out there, so I'll throw out a couple
ideas. My first two suggestions would be for Red Hat or Mandrake. These
distro's are almost to the point were'd I give them to my mom and tell her
she could use them! =0). The RPM system makes updates and installs so
easy, and these seem to be the most popular, and therefore you are more
likely to find people with the same problems. However they are a bit
"windows" like if you use gnome or KDE. I don't have any exp. with SuSe,
come to think of it I probally should try that! Hope this helps.
-Chris

On Fri, 24 May 2002, Matthew Stapleton wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I have tried several of the major distributions on my PC over the years. 
> But I am by no means an expert at using UNIX/Linux.  I want some advice
> on the pros and cons of the various distributions.  Possibly any replies
> to this could be aimed at Redhat, Slackware, Debian, SUSE, Mandrake etc
> as many of the others are based on these.  
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> Matthew Stapleton
> ...........
>  
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-newbie" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> Please read the FAQ at http://www.linux-learn.org/faqs
> 

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Re: which distribution to use?

[Brett Allen]

Matt,
	I have been a system admin for 9+ years now but that has been in an NT 
environment.  Although I do have one Linux server at work, it has a very 
small task.  My work has not embraced Linux at all although over the last two 
years I find most of the "Major" new systems from the Corp. office being done 
on Solaris.  
	That said, I use Linux when I get home.  I use it to learn and have a 
refreshing change. I have been 'messing" with Linux for 3 or 4 years but I 
started using it last year as my only system for internet at home because of 
a virus problem on my Windows box and find it a joy.  I have installed all 
the major distro's but someware down the road I found I liked SuSE and have 
stayed with it.  Maybe it was because I broke a few things and with Lawson's 
help and others here on the list I got a few things fixed and learned a few 
of the extra tools SuSE gives you (each distro has there own it seems).  
	I guess what I am trying to say is that I have found that I really have 
little interest of late to get into the guts of Linux.  Did at one time, but 
that has faded.  What I really want is to come home and do a little surfing 
and read my email and keep track of a news group or two.  I fix stuff all day 
at work and just like to relax when I get home.  Other than do a online 
update once in a while or maybe the Version 8.0 upgrade at the first of this 
week, all I have had to do with this distro is enjoy.

	Your interest and mileage my vary....

Brett 
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Re: which distribution to use?

[David Benfell]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2153 bytes --]

On Fri, 24 May 2002 13:00:27 -0700, Matthew Stapleton wrote:
> 
> I have tried several of the major distributions on my PC over the years. 
> But I am by no means an expert at using UNIX/Linux.  I want some advice
> on the pros and cons of the various distributions.  Possibly any replies
> to this could be aimed at Redhat, Slackware, Debian, SUSE, Mandrake etc
> as many of the others are based on these.  
> 
I landed on SuSE and really haven't been satisfied with the other
distributions I've occasionally had to deal with.  I have found it far
and away the most stable, well put together distribution out there.

Red Hat, TurboLinux, and Caldera are really buggy.

My experience with Slackware was that it was simply too primitive.  It
probably has improved since, but when I tried it, you had to build too
much software to get the system into a usable state.  Some of the
required builds had booby traps that made it even more difficult.  I
never did get Netscape running on that version.

Does Slackware use glibc yet?

Debian's package management system (and philosophy) make it a winner
for many.  However, I feel that every argument you can come up with in
favor of Debian's package management is better answered with the
FreeBSD ports collection.  Debian's installation is notoriously
difficult.  Even Debian stable isn't reliable enough for my taste.

In a subsequent post, you say you want to learn the nuts and bolts.
This is good, but is really not dependent on the distribution you
choose.  Most distributions install with a default to come up in GUI
mode, but you can modify /etc/inittab, changing the default run level
to come up in text mode.  You can then use the startx command to bring
up X whenever you need the GUI.

The final argument for SuSE, I believe, is that of all the major
distributions, SuSE comes closest to the File Hierarchy Standard.  All
the distributions are moving in that direction, so for learning
purposes, SuSE may offer you a bit of a head start.

-- 
David Benfell, LCP
benfell@parts-unknown.org
---
Resume available at http://www.parts-unknown.org/resume.html

[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 481 bytes --]

Re: which distribution to use?

[Richard Adams]

On Tuesday 28 May 2002 02:27, David Benfell wrote:

> Red Hat, TurboLinux, and Caldera are really buggy.

I certanly would not say that of redhat.

>
> My experience with Slackware was that it was simply too primitive.  It
> probably has improved since, but when I tried it, you had to build too
> much software to get the system into a usable state.  Some of the
> required builds had booby traps that made it even more difficult.  I
> never did get Netscape running on that version.

Slackware is NOT primative, its the nearest to "unix" one can get which is 
why it may seem primative to you.

>
> Does Slackware use glibc yet?

Yes.

> In a subsequent post, you say you want to learn the nuts and bolts.
> This is good, but is really not dependent on the distribution you
> choose.  Most distributions install with a default to come up in GUI
> mode, but you can modify /etc/inittab, changing the default run level
> to come up in text mode.  You can then use the startx command to bring
> up X whenever you need the GUI.

Looks like you have never "installed" slackware yourself as there is one big 
differance, you start learning with the install of slackware, where as you 
dont with most others.

>
> The final argument for SuSE, I believe, is that of all the major
> distributions, SuSE comes closest to the File Hierarchy Standard.  All
> the distributions are moving in that direction, so for learning
> purposes, SuSE may offer you a bit of a head start.

Which is what makes "once again" slackware uniq.

I have said all of this many times here on this list, i have most distro's 
running on different systems here and at my workplace, from what i have seen 
here when the question is asked, which distro's is the best to learn linux, 
slackware pops up.

And BTW: 8.1 is out i see from www.slackware.com

-- 
Regards Richard
pa3gcu@zeelandnet.nl
http://people.zeelandnet.nl/pa3gcu/

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Re: which distribution to use?

[Ray Olszewski]

I usually ignore these threads, but this one is starting to get an 
unpleasant tone, so let me try to encourage the proponents of the various 
distros to moderate their insistance before we get to a flame war.

For the record, I like Debian. It is also, by now, the only full-size 
distro I feel totally familiar with. Were I to install Slackware, or Red 
Hat, or Mandrake, or SuSE, I feel sure I would encounter some of the same 
unpleasantness that an earlier poster found with everything except SuSE.

But this observation doesn't tell you much about those other distros, 
except that I am out of practice using them. For better or for worse, Linux 
has fragmented noticably at the distro level, leading most people to be 
familiar with the quirks of one of the distros, but few of us to be current 
on several of them.

For a newcomer, each of the major distros ... at least the ones still being 
maintained, which includes Slackware, Red Hat, SuSE, Debian, and others 
(but I'm not sure if Caldera is still actively maintained) ... has its 
advantages and disadvantages. It does help to describe the strengths (and 
weaknesses) of a distribution you have real familiarity with. But vague 
criticisms like "really buggy" and "installation is notoriously difficult" 
do not really help a beginner make an informed decision.

Oh, one factual correction -- Debian does not default to a GUI install; you 
have to select an X "task" package at install time to get a GUI install. 
Last time I checked (several releases back), neither did Slackware.

At 06:25 AM 5/28/02 +0000, Richard Adams wrote:
>On Tuesday 28 May 2002 02:27, David Benfell wrote:
>
> > Red Hat, TurboLinux, and Caldera are really buggy.
>
>I certanly would not say that of redhat.
>
> >
> > My experience with Slackware was that it was simply too primitive.  It
> > probably has improved since, but when I tried it, you had to build too
> > much software to get the system into a usable state.  Some of the
> > required builds had booby traps that made it even more difficult.  I
> > never did get Netscape running on that version.
>
>Slackware is NOT primative, its the nearest to "unix" one can get which is
>why it may seem primative to you.
>
> >
> > Does Slackware use glibc yet?
>
>Yes.
>
> > In a subsequent post, you say you want to learn the nuts and bolts.
> > This is good, but is really not dependent on the distribution you
> > choose.  Most distributions install with a default to come up in GUI
> > mode, but you can modify /etc/inittab, changing the default run level
> > to come up in text mode.  You can then use the startx command to bring
> > up X whenever you need the GUI.
>
>Looks like you have never "installed" slackware yourself as there is one big
>differance, you start learning with the install of slackware, where as you
>dont with most others.
>
> >
> > The final argument for SuSE, I believe, is that of all the major
> > distributions, SuSE comes closest to the File Hierarchy Standard.  All
> > the distributions are moving in that direction, so for learning
> > purposes, SuSE may offer you a bit of a head start.
>
>Which is what makes "once again" slackware uniq.
>
>I have said all of this many times here on this list, i have most distro's
>running on different systems here and at my workplace, from what i have seen
>here when the question is asked, which distro's is the best to learn linux,
>slackware pops up.
>
>And BTW: 8.1 is out i see from www.slackware.com


--
-----------------------------------------------"Never tell me the 
odds!"--------------
Ray Olszewski					     -- Han Solo
Palo Alto, California, USA				ray@comarre.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: which distribution to use?

[Richard Adams]

On Tuesday 28 May 2002 06:40, Ray Olszewski wrote:
> I usually ignore these threads, but this one is starting to get an
> unpleasant tone, so let me try to encourage the proponents of the various
> distros to moderate their insistance before we get to a flame war.

So do i, but the thread was which one "learns" you the most and as we all
seem to agree in one way or another Slackware is best for that.

-- 
Regards Richard
pa3gcu@zeelandnet.nl
http://people.zeelandnet.nl/pa3gcu/

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Re: which distribution to use?

[Ray Olszewski]

At 12:50 PM 5/28/02 +0000, Richard Adams wrote:
>On Tuesday 28 May 2002 06:40, Ray Olszewski wrote:
> > I usually ignore these threads, but this one is starting to get an
> > unpleasant tone, so let me try to encourage the proponents of the various
> > distros to moderate their insistance before we get to a flame war.
>
>So do i, but the thread was which one "learns" you the most and as we all
>seem to agree in one way or another Slackware is best for that.


Actually we don't all agree to this. I just see no benefit in extending the 
debate.



--
-----------------------------------------------"Never tell me the 
odds!"--------------
Ray Olszewski					     -- Han Solo
Palo Alto, California, USA				ray@comarre.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: which distribution to use?

[Richard Adams]

On Tuesday 28 May 2002 15:47, Ray Olszewski wrote:
> At 12:50 PM 5/28/02 +0000, Richard Adams wrote:
> >On Tuesday 28 May 2002 06:40, Ray Olszewski wrote:
> > > I usually ignore these threads, but this one is starting to get an
> > > unpleasant tone, so let me try to encourage the proponents of the
> > > various distros to moderate their insistance before we get to a flame
> > > war.
> >
> >So do i, but the thread was which one "learns" you the most and as we all
> >seem to agree in one way or another Slackware is best for that.
>
> Actually we don't all agree to this. I just see no benefit in extending the
> debate.

I did not say we agreed, i said most agree.

End of thread as far as i am concerned.

-- 
Regards Richard
pa3gcu@zeelandnet.nl
http://people.zeelandnet.nl/pa3gcu/

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