Re: ALERT - GroupShield ticket number OA2317_1057450427_CVO-EXCHANGE _1 was generated

Re: ALERT - GroupShield ticket number OA2317_1057450427_CVO-EXCHANGE _1 was generated

[seth vidal]

On Sat, 2003-07-05 at 20:13, GroupShield for Exchange (CVO-EXCHANGE)
wrote:
> Action Taken:
> The attachment was deleted from the message and replaced with a text file
> informing the recipient of the action taken.
> 
> To:
> nfs@lists.sourceforge.net <nfs@lists.sourceforge.net>
> 
> From:
> sandstrom@geis.geis.com <sandstrom@geis.geis.com>
> 

ok, come on - maybe we should consider just making non-subscribers posts
be held for approval. Its very easy to do in mailman and sheesh - we've
been getting about 5 or so of these Deleted action virus crap every day.

-sv




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Re: ALERT - GroupShield ticket number OA2317_1057450427_CVO-EXCHANGE _1 was generated

[Erez Zadok]

In message <1057450819.27203.1.camel@binkley>, seth vidal writes:

> ok, come on - maybe we should consider just making non-subscribers posts
> be held for approval. Its very easy to do in mailman and sheesh - we've
> been getting about 5 or so of these Deleted action virus crap every day.
> 
> -sv

Thank you, Seth!  Finally someone with the right attitude.  A few weeks ago
when the anti-spam debate on this list came on yet again, several people
said that they'd rather keep the list open and that people should just
configure their own anti-spam techniques (i.e., throw the ball to the poor
subscribers).  I think that if someone is novice enough not to know how to
subscribe to a list for the purpose of sending an important question, then
they most definitely don't know how to setup and configure anti-spam.  And
if the concern is about inconveniencing novice users who don't want to
subscribe to this list, then from what I've seen, novice users ask novice
questions that are best answered in the FAQ, archives, etc.

Personally, I strongly support closing this list off to non-subscribers.
This way you save hassles to many subscribers, and instead asking the
maintainers to filter held posts (or configure more specialized anti-spam
methods FOR THIS LIST -- a one time effort).  I maintain several
non-open-to-all Mailman-based lists with over 10k subscribers in total, and
I have done just that (BTW, integrated anti-spam methods are especially
convenient w/ Mailman 2.1).

Cheers,
Erez.


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Re: ALERT - GroupShield ticket number OA2317_1057450427_CVO-EXCHANGE _1 was generated

[Paul Smith]

Might I suggest someone block this user
(NAIUSCVO-EXCHANGE@roguewave.com)?  That's also quite trivial to do with
Mailman, and seems the simplest solution for this particular problem.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Paul D. Smith <psmith@nortelnetworks.com>   HASMAT--HA Software Mthds & Tools
 "Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional." --Mad Scientist
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   These are my opinions---Nortel Networks takes no responsibility for them.


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Re: ALERT - GroupShield ticket number OA2317_1057450427_CVO-EXCHANGE _1 was generated

[Erez Zadok]

In message <p5r854quqr.fsf@lemming.engeast.baynetworks.com>, "Paul Smith" writes:
> Might I suggest someone block this user
> (NAIUSCVO-EXCHANGE@roguewave.com)?  That's also quite trivial to do with
> Mailman, and seems the simplest solution for this particular problem.

Good suggestion, but this simple solution only pospones the inevitable.
Eventaully this list will get hit by more auto-bounces such as this
roguewave.com user.  And this doesn't help filtering the direct spammers and
all the viruses this list gets.

So the list maintainers can go on now and block this user, then they may do
the same for the next user, and the next one, and the next one.  It'll
become quickly obvious that the maintainers' lives will be much easier if
they block all non-subscribers; that will also block all of the bogus/fake
emails spammers use.

Erez.


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Re: ALERT - GroupShield ticket number OA2317_1057450427_CVO-EXCHANGE _1 was generated

[Ashutosh Rajekar]

I agree. IIRC, one cannot post to the FreeBSD mailing lists without 
subscription. Enabling this list with the same feature should reduce the 
spam and virus laden emails a lot.

-ASR
http://www3.sympatico.ca/arajekar
"...you might as well skip the Xmas celebration completely, and instead
sit in front of your linux computer playing with the
all-new-and-improved linux kernel version."
(By Linus Torvalds)


On Sat, 5 Jul 2003, Erez Zadok wrote:
>
> In message <p5r854quqr.fsf@lemming.engeast.baynetworks.com>, "Paul Smith" writes:
> > Might I suggest someone block this user
> > (NAIUSCVO-EXCHANGE@roguewave.com)?  That's also quite trivial to do with
> > Mailman, and seems the simplest solution for this particular problem.
> 
> Good suggestion, but this simple solution only pospones the inevitable.
> Eventaully this list will get hit by more auto-bounces such as this
> roguewave.com user.  And this doesn't help filtering the direct spammers and
> all the viruses this list gets.
> 
> So the list maintainers can go on now and block this user, then they may do
> the same for the next user, and the next one, and the next one.  It'll
> become quickly obvious that the maintainers' lives will be much easier if
> they block all non-subscribers; that will also block all of the bogus/fake
> emails spammers use.
> 
> Erez.
> 




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RE: ALERT - GroupShield ticket number OA2317_1057450427_CVO-EXCHANGE _1 was generated

[Lever, Charles]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1782 bytes --]

anything we do (except completely closing the list)
will require some degree of on-going list management.

any volunteers to be the list moderator?  bueller?
anyone?  bueller?


-----Original Message-----
From:	Erez Zadok [mailto:ezk@cs.sunysb.edu]
Sent:	Sat 7/5/2003 10:09 PM
To:	Paul Smith
Cc:	nfs@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject:	Re: [NFS] ALERT - GroupShield ticket number OA2317_1057450427_CVO-EXCHANGE _1 was generated 
In message <p5r854quqr.fsf@lemming.engeast.baynetworks.com>, "Paul Smith" writes:
> Might I suggest someone block this user
> (NAIUSCVO-EXCHANGE@roguewave.com)?  That's also quite trivial to do with
> Mailman, and seems the simplest solution for this particular problem.

Good suggestion, but this simple solution only pospones the inevitable.
Eventaully this list will get hit by more auto-bounces such as this
roguewave.com user.  And this doesn't help filtering the direct spammers and
all the viruses this list gets.

So the list maintainers can go on now and block this user, then they may do
the same for the next user, and the next one, and the next one.  It'll
become quickly obvious that the maintainers' lives will be much easier if
they block all non-subscribers; that will also block all of the bogus/fake
emails spammers use.

Erez.


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[-- Attachment #2: winmail.dat --]
[-- Type: application/ms-tnef, Size: 3697 bytes --]

Re: ALERT - GroupShield ticket number OA2317_1057450427_CVO-EXCHANGE _1 was generated

[Dan Kegel]

Ashutosh Rajekar wrote:
> I agree. IIRC, one cannot post to the FreeBSD mailing lists without 
> subscription. Enabling this list with the same feature should reduce the 
> spam and virus laden emails a lot.

+1

I agree.  Time to close the list to non-subscribers.
The archives can remain open, that's no problem.
- Dan



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Re: ALERT - GroupShield ticket number OA2317_1057450427_CVO-EXCHANGE _1 was generated

[H. J. Lu]

On Mon, Jul 07, 2003 at 10:15:12AM -0700, Dan Kegel wrote:
> Ashutosh Rajekar wrote:
> >I agree. IIRC, one cannot post to the FreeBSD mailing lists without 
> >subscription. Enabling this list with the same feature should reduce the 
> >spam and virus laden emails a lot.
> 
> +1
> 
> I agree.  Time to close the list to non-subscribers.
> The archives can remain open, that's no problem.

If there are no major objections by the end of this week, I will
close the list to non-subscribers.


H.J.


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RE: ALERT - GroupShield ticket number OA2317_1057450427_CVO-EXCHANGE _1 was generated

[Lever, Charles]

if we make a change, we should have some text
ready for the FAQ that will go in at the same
time you make the mailing list change.  something
like new instructions on how to post.

i prefer a moderated list instead of "closed to
subscribers only."  but i am willing to be
outvoted ;^)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: H. J. Lu [mailto:hjl@lucon.org]=20
> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 3:31 PM
> To: Dan Kegel
> Cc: Ashutosh Rajekar; Erez Zadok; Paul Smith;=20
> nfs@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [NFS] ALERT - GroupShield ticket number=20
> OA2317_1057450427_CVO-EXCHANGE _1 was generated
>=20
>=20
> On Mon, Jul 07, 2003 at 10:15:12AM -0700, Dan Kegel wrote:
> > Ashutosh Rajekar wrote:
> > >I agree. IIRC, one cannot post to the FreeBSD mailing=20
> lists without=20
> > >subscription. Enabling this list with the same feature=20
> should reduce the=20
> > >spam and virus laden emails a lot.
> >=20
> > +1
> >=20
> > I agree.  Time to close the list to non-subscribers.
> > The archives can remain open, that's no problem.
>=20
> If there are no major objections by the end of this week, I will
> close the list to non-subscribers.
>=20
>=20
> H.J.
>=20
>=20
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> 1203_01/01
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>=20


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RE: ALERT - GroupShield ticket number OA2317_1057450427_CVO-EXCHANGE _1 was generated

[Paul Heinlein]

On Mon, 7 Jul 2003, Lever, Charles wrote:

> i prefer a moderated list instead of "closed to subscribers only."
> but i am willing to be outvoted ;^)

As long as there are pleny of moderators to handle the approval
process. I'd hate to think that one or two people get stuck with the
nasty job of spam deletion.

--Paul Heinlein <heinlein@cse.ogi.edu>


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Re: ALERT - GroupShield ticket number OA2317_1057450427_CVO-EXCHANGE _1 was generated

[Philippe Gramoullé]

Hello,

Well last time there was a poll on that topic, i'd voted to close the list to
non-subscribers but Trond pointed out the problem of bug reports which i had overlooked
and making this change would probably make few (but always important) bug reports get lost.

I think that we should keep the list opened to non-subscribers ( and fine
tune my spam traps/ white lists / Black lists BTW :)

Thanks,

Philippe

On Mon, 7 Jul 2003 12:30:31 -0700
"H. J. Lu" <hjl@lucon.org> wrote:

  | If there are no major objections by the end of this week, I will
  | close the list to non-subscribers.


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Re: ALERT - GroupShield ticket number OA2317_1057450427_CVO-EXCHANGE _1 was generated

[Dan Kegel]

Paul Heinlein wrote:
> On Mon, 7 Jul 2003, Lever, Charles wrote:
> 
> 
>>i prefer a moderated list instead of "closed to subscribers only."
>>but i am willing to be outvoted ;^)
> 
> 
> As long as there are pleny of moderators to handle the approval
> process. I'd hate to think that one or two people get stuck with the
> nasty job of spam deletion.

There *is* the option of adding spam filtering to the list, I suppose.
Preferably for new members only, so known good people don't
have posts deleted due to false positives...

I'd prefer closing the list to non-subscriber posts as the first move,
and then adding spam filtering if the spammers get past that.
- Dan



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Re: ALERT - GroupShield ticket number OA2317_1057450427_CVO-EXCHANGE _1 was generated

[Gaston]

I agree. I joined this list just one week ago, but I've got more spam 
than I had in two years from four other lists (one of which is very 
quiet, I have to say).
Gaston

H. J. Lu wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 07, 2003 at 10:15:12AM -0700, Dan Kegel wrote:
> 
>>Ashutosh Rajekar wrote:
>>
>>>I agree. IIRC, one cannot post to the FreeBSD mailing lists without 
>>>subscription. Enabling this list with the same feature should reduce the 
>>>spam and virus laden emails a lot.
>>
>>+1
>>
>>I agree.  Time to close the list to non-subscribers.
>>The archives can remain open, that's no problem.
> 
> 
> If there are no major objections by the end of this week, I will
> close the list to non-subscribers.
> 
> 
> H.J.
> 
> 
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> 




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Re: ALERT - GroupShield ticket number OA2317_1057450427_CVO-EXCHANGE _1 was generated

[seth vidal]

On Mon, 2003-07-07 at 16:56, Philippe Gramoullé wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> Well last time there was a poll on that topic, i'd voted to close the list to
> non-subscribers but Trond pointed out the problem of bug reports which i had overlooked
> and making this change would probably make few (but always important) bug reports get lost.
> 
> I think that we should keep the list opened to non-subscribers ( and fine
> tune my spam traps/ white lists / Black lists BTW :)
> 

It's really not this hard.
all you do is turn on non-subscriber posts require approval in mailman.

it doesn't drop non-subscriber posts but it will send the mailing list
admin a message saying some messages need to get
checked/approvated/discarded.

-sv




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Re: ALERT - GroupShield ticket number OA2317_1057450427_CVO-EXCHANGE _1 was generated

[Philippe Gramoullé]

Hello Seth,

On 07 Jul 2003 17:08:32 -0400
seth vidal <skvidal@phy.duke.edu> wrote:

  | > I think that we should keep the list opened to non-subscribers ( and fine
  | > tune my spam traps/ white lists / Black lists BTW :)
  | > 
  | 
  | It's really not this hard.
  | all you do is turn on non-subscriber posts require approval in mailman.

Yes, i'm aware of this feature.

  | 
  | it doesn't drop non-subscriber posts but it will send the mailing list
  | admin a message saying some messages need to get
  | checked/approvated/discarded.

Fine with me ;o) as long as there are people out there willing to do the moderation.

Thanks,

Philippe


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Re: ALERT - GroupShield ticket number OA2317_1057450427_CVO-EXCHANGE _1 was generated

[Erez Zadok]

In message <20030707225618.0fa972cf.philippe.gramoulle@mmania.com>, Philippe =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Gramoull=E9?= writes:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> Well last time there was a poll on that topic, i'd voted to close the list to
> non-subscribers but Trond pointed out the problem of bug reports which i had overlooked
> and making this change would probably make few (but always important) bug reports get lost.
> 
> I think that we should keep the list opened to non-subscribers ( and fine
> tune my spam traps/ white lists / Black lists BTW :)

With Mailman 2.1, there are ways to fwd specific mails to specific people,
so you could "trap" these bug reports and pass them on to someone who could
decide to delete the email or fwd it to the list.  That's how I handle true
bug reports to my list.  It's not the cleanest way, but it works for the
one-in-many real messages that are sent to my lists.

Erez.


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Re: ALERT - GroupShield ticket number OA2317_1057450427_CVO-EXCHANGE _1 was generated

[Juri Haberland]

Dan Kegel <dkegel@ixiacom.com> wrote:
> Paul Heinlein wrote:
>> 
>>>i prefer a moderated list instead of "closed to subscribers only."
>>>but i am willing to be outvoted ;^)
>> 
>> As long as there are pleny of moderators to handle the approval
>> process. I'd hate to think that one or two people get stuck with the
>> nasty job of spam deletion.
> 
> There *is* the option of adding spam filtering to the list, I suppose.
> Preferably for new members only, so known good people don't
> have posts deleted due to false positives...
> 
> I'd prefer closing the list to non-subscriber posts as the first move,
> and then adding spam filtering if the spammers get past that.

Anyone thought about just unsubscribing those people comeing from a
domain that sends those anti-virus messages?
It's just like all those misconfigured mail servers, that send out
vacation messages upon mailing list mails...

Just my 2 Euro cents...

Regards,
Juri

-- 
Juri Haberland  <juri@koschikode.com> 



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Re: ALERT - GroupShield ticket number OA2317_1057450427_CVO-EXCHANGE _1 was generated

[Steven N. Hirsch]

On Mon, 7 Jul 2003, H. J. Lu wrote:

> If there are no major objections by the end of this week, I will
> close the list to non-subscribers.
> 
> 
> H.J.

Please do.

Steve




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Re: ALERT - GroupShield ticket number OA2317_1057450427_CVO-EXCHANGE _1 was generated

[Dan Kegel]

Juri Haberland wrote:
> Anyone thought about just unsubscribing those people comeing from a
> domain that sends those anti-virus messages?
> It's just like all those misconfigured mail servers, that send out
> vacation messages upon mailing list mails...

Nah, I think those infection reports are useful sometimes.
And since IMHO all mailing lists should be closed anyway to deal with
spammers, those messages don't bother properly configured mailing lists.
- Dan





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Re: ALERT - GroupShield ticket number OA2317_1057450427_CVO-EXCHANGE _1 was generated

[Gerhard den Hollander]

* Lever, Charles <Charles.Lever@netapp.com> (Mon, Jul 07, 2003 at 01:41:29PM -0700)
> if we make a change, we should have some text
> ready for the FAQ that will go in at the same
> time you make the mailing list change.  something
> like new instructions on how to post.
> 
> i prefer a moderated list instead of "closed to
> subscribers only."  but i am willing to be
> outvoted ;^)

I don;t really care, my only issue is that the adress Im subscribed with
(which is my official email adress) is likely different from the one Im
posting with ..., which means Ill have to fiddle with sendmail to make sure
they will match ;)

Kind regards,
 --
Gerhard den Hollander                           Phone :+31-10.280.1515
ICT manager                                     Direct:+31-10.280.1539 
Jason Geosystems BV                             Fax   :+31-10.280.1511 
gdenhollander@jasongeo.com                      POBox 1573
visit us at http://www.jasongeo.com             3000 BN Rotterdam  
JASON.......#1 in Reservoir Characterization    The Netherlands
      This e-mail and any attachment is/are intended solely for the named
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