From: the grugq <grugq@hcunix.net>
To: Jamie Lokier <jamie@shareable.org>
Cc: Hans Reiser <reiser@namesys.com>,
Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu, Pavel Machek <pavel@ucw.cz>,
linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: PATCH - ext2fs privacy (i.e. secure deletion) patch
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 11:02:55 +0000 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <4024C5DF.40609@hcunix.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20040207104712.GA16093@mail.shareable.org>
Yes, the allocation of the inode and data blocks should be randomized
for security, but that would lead to performance impacts. Implementing
that should definately be a compile time option.
I would advocate erasing all meta-data on a file, and also erasing the
data. The end-user can be responsible for erasing the data, they can
access it with write(), but they can't access the meta-data (not without
directly accessing the file system). Thats why I'm putting these patches
forward. The file system should be responsible for removing meta-data
when a file is deleted. This secure deletion doesn't have to incorporate
data block erasure (although my implemenation does).
Your suggestion would certainly work, but I think the performance impact
of using random inodes and data blocks would dissuade many from having
it enabled by default. Simple secure deletion of the data and meta-data
would have a lower impact, and be more likely to be used on more file
systems.
peace,
--gq
>
> This is how to implement secure deletion cryptographically:
>
> - Each time a file is created, choose a random number.
>
> - Encrypt the number with your filesystem key and store the
> encrypted version in the inode.
>
> - The number is used for encrypting that file.
>
> Secure deletion is then a matter of securely deleting the inode.
> The file data does not have to be overwritten.
>
> This is secure against many attacks that "secure deletion" by
> overwriting is weak against. This includes electron microscopes
> looking at the data, and UK law. (The police can demand your
> filesystem key, but nobody knows the random number that belonged to a
> new-deleted inode).
>
> There is a chance the electron microscope may recover the number from
> the securely deleted inode. That is the weakness of this system,
> therefore the inode data should be very thoroughly erased or itself
> subject to careful cryptographic hding.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2004-02-07 11:05 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 45+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2004-01-28 16:30 PATCH - ext2fs privacy (i.e. secure deletion) patch the grugq
2004-02-03 22:20 ` Pavel Machek
2004-02-04 0:33 ` the grugq
2004-02-04 0:43 ` Pavel Machek
2004-02-04 0:48 ` the grugq
2004-02-04 0:55 ` Pavel Machek
2004-02-04 0:58 ` the grugq
2004-02-04 1:10 ` Mike Fedyk
2004-02-04 6:29 ` Theodore Ts'o
2004-02-04 13:08 ` the grugq
2004-02-04 17:05 ` Bill Davidsen
2004-02-04 17:14 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2004-02-04 23:47 ` Bill Davidsen
2004-02-04 23:51 ` the grugq
2004-02-05 1:48 ` the grugq
2004-02-05 4:38 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2004-02-07 3:30 ` Bill Davidsen
2004-02-05 3:35 ` Theodore Ts'o
2004-02-06 0:00 ` the grugq
2004-02-12 22:59 ` Robert White
2004-02-13 3:41 ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-13 21:30 ` Robert White
2004-02-18 3:48 ` Bill Davidsen
2004-02-18 9:48 ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-17 12:00 ` Pavel Machek
2004-02-04 3:20 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2004-02-07 0:20 ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-07 1:15 ` Hans Reiser
2004-02-07 1:29 ` the grugq
2004-02-07 5:40 ` Hans Reiser
2004-02-07 9:55 ` the grugq
2004-02-07 10:47 ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-07 11:02 ` the grugq [this message]
2004-02-07 11:09 ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-07 11:46 ` the grugq
2004-02-07 12:01 ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-07 16:52 ` Hans Reiser
2004-02-07 17:22 ` Pavel Machek
2004-02-08 0:04 ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-07 16:50 ` Hans Reiser
2004-02-07 16:44 ` Hans Reiser
2004-02-09 12:07 ` Edward Shishkin
2004-02-10 7:18 ` Hans Reiser
2004-02-07 2:17 ` Jamie Lokier
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2004-02-07 9:55 Albert Cahalan
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