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From: the grugq <grugq@hcunix.net>
To: Jamie Lokier <jamie@shareable.org>
Cc: Hans Reiser <reiser@namesys.com>,
	Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu, Pavel Machek <pavel@ucw.cz>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: PATCH - ext2fs privacy (i.e. secure deletion) patch
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 11:02:55 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <4024C5DF.40609@hcunix.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20040207104712.GA16093@mail.shareable.org>

Yes, the allocation of the inode and data blocks should be randomized 
for security, but that would lead to performance impacts. Implementing 
that should definately be a compile time option.

I would advocate erasing all meta-data on a file, and also erasing the 
data. The end-user can be responsible for erasing the data, they can 
access it with write(), but they can't access the meta-data (not without 
directly accessing the file system). Thats why I'm putting these patches 
forward. The file system should be responsible for removing meta-data 
when a file is deleted. This secure deletion doesn't have to incorporate 
data block erasure (although my implemenation does).

Your suggestion would certainly work, but I think the performance impact 
of using random inodes and data blocks would dissuade many from having 
it enabled by default. Simple secure deletion of the data and meta-data 
would have a lower impact, and be more likely to be used on more file 
systems.


peace,

--gq

> 
> This is how to implement secure deletion cryptographically:
> 
>    - Each time a file is created, choose a random number.
> 
>    - Encrypt the number with your filesystem key and store the
>      encrypted version in the inode.
> 
>    - The number is used for encrypting that file.
> 
> Secure deletion is then a matter of securely deleting the inode.
> The file data does not have to be overwritten.
> 
> This is secure against many attacks that "secure deletion" by
> overwriting is weak against.  This includes electron microscopes
> looking at the data, and UK law.  (The police can demand your
> filesystem key, but nobody knows the random number that belonged to a
> new-deleted inode).
> 
> There is a chance the electron microscope may recover the number from
> the securely deleted inode.  That is the weakness of this system,
> therefore the inode data should be very thoroughly erased or itself
> subject to careful cryptographic hding.


  reply	other threads:[~2004-02-07 11:05 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 45+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2004-01-28 16:30 PATCH - ext2fs privacy (i.e. secure deletion) patch the grugq
2004-02-03 22:20 ` Pavel Machek
2004-02-04  0:33   ` the grugq
2004-02-04  0:43     ` Pavel Machek
2004-02-04  0:48       ` the grugq
2004-02-04  0:55         ` Pavel Machek
2004-02-04  0:58           ` the grugq
2004-02-04  1:10             ` Mike Fedyk
2004-02-04  6:29       ` Theodore Ts'o
2004-02-04 13:08         ` the grugq
2004-02-04 17:05           ` Bill Davidsen
2004-02-04 17:14             ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2004-02-04 23:47               ` Bill Davidsen
2004-02-04 23:51                 ` the grugq
2004-02-05  1:48                 ` the grugq
2004-02-05  4:38                 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2004-02-07  3:30                   ` Bill Davidsen
2004-02-05  3:35               ` Theodore Ts'o
2004-02-06  0:00                 ` the grugq
2004-02-12 22:59         ` Robert White
2004-02-13  3:41           ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-13 21:30             ` Robert White
2004-02-18  3:48             ` Bill Davidsen
2004-02-18  9:48               ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-17 12:00           ` Pavel Machek
2004-02-04  3:20     ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2004-02-07  0:20       ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-07  1:15         ` Hans Reiser
2004-02-07  1:29           ` the grugq
2004-02-07  5:40             ` Hans Reiser
2004-02-07  9:55               ` the grugq
2004-02-07 10:47                 ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-07 11:02                   ` the grugq [this message]
2004-02-07 11:09                     ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-07 11:46                       ` the grugq
2004-02-07 12:01                         ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-07 16:52                           ` Hans Reiser
2004-02-07 17:22                           ` Pavel Machek
2004-02-08  0:04                             ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-07 16:50                         ` Hans Reiser
2004-02-07 16:44                   ` Hans Reiser
2004-02-09 12:07                     ` Edward Shishkin
2004-02-10  7:18                       ` Hans Reiser
2004-02-07  2:17           ` Jamie Lokier
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2004-02-07  9:55 Albert Cahalan

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