Re: moving partion to newer drive

Re: moving partion to newer drive

[Ray Olszewski]

At 08:25 PM 2/24/2004 -0500, Karthik Vishwanath wrote:
>Hello,
>
>I have a dual-boot system (with windows-98 and redhat 7.3) setup on an old
>hard disk. I recently obtained a new hard drive and have their order
>configured such that the old drive is /dev/hda and the new one is
>/dev/hdb. The partitions on /dev/hda are as follows:
>
>/dev/hda1   *         1       960   7703608+   c  Win95 FAT32 (LBA)
>/dev/hda2           960       963     30240   83  Linux
>/dev/hda3           963      1365   3228120   83  Linux
>/dev/hda4          1365      1653   2313360    5  Extended
>/dev/hda5          1365      1397    257008+  82  Linux swap
>/dev/hda6          1397      1653   2056288+  83  Linux
>
>with /dev/hda2 -> /boot, /dev/hda3 -> /, /dev/hda6 -> /home.
>
>The partitions on /dev/hdb are defined as:
>
>/dev/hdb1             1      6684  53689198+   c  Win95 FAT32 (LBA)
>/dev/hdb2          6685      8143  11719417+  83  Linux
>/dev/hdb3          8144      9600  11703352+  83  Linux
>/dev/hdb4          9601      9729   1036192+  82  Linux swap
>
>
>I want to: install Fedora on /dev/hdb by making /dev/hdb2 -> /, copy
>/dev/hda6 to /dev/hdb3 (-> /home) and successfully dual-boot. I have the
>following questions;
>
>1. Can I boot from the Fedora CD and get the installation going (with
>properly defined partitions) and subsequently mounting and copying /dev/hda6
>to /home, without disturbing anything on /dev/hda at all?

You should be able to. I haven't actually done a Fedora install, but I'd be 
amazed if it couldn't handle this configuration.

>2. Is it preferred that I preserve the /boot partition - i.e. will it help
>if /boot remains on /dev/hda2?

It mainly depends on what your BIOS will put up with. LILO (or do you use 
GRUB?) doesn't care where the boot partition (in effect, the Linux kernel) 
is, as long as the BIOS can find it. The historical reason for a separate 
boot partition was the old 1024-cylinder limit for BIOS access, a limit 
long gone. I've seen some occasional BIOS problems still, though, with 
drives over 40 GB. If your system has such a problem, you'll need a boot 
partition spmewhere near the front of one of the drives.

>3. What are the details I must watch out for in this process?

Hard to say, aside from inane advice like "Don't do anything silly". You've 
pretty much asked the right questions.

As long as you tell Fedora to install to hdb2, it should ignore all the 
hda* partitions (except maybe for asking you if you want to specify mount 
points for them). And, as I said, you will have to wait and see if you can 
boot a kernel located on hdb2.

Remember that with this approach, you're still installing lilo (or GRUB or 
whatever) on the MBR of hda. So you'll need either to add back in the 
multi-boot stuff that lets Windows boot, or install Fedora to boot from 
floppy, then edit your existing multiboot setup to add Fedora to it.

Were I doing this, I think I'd do it the reverse way -- make the new drive 
hda and the old one hdb. Fiddle with the partitioning as needed to get a 
working /boot partition for Linux. Probably only have one real Linux 
partition (plus a small /boot partition), just to avoid an Extended 
partition ... though the merits of that idea depend completely on what you 
actually use this system for.

Then install Windows to the new hda1, Linux to the new hda2 and hda3 ... 
and use the old drive, however you reconfigure it, as a data drive.

>4. Finally - if all goes well, can I delete partitions /dev/hda(2)3-6 and
>make /dev/hda available as one single partition, without hosing windows?

Not with Linux tools (though fdisk can easily delete hda2-6 for you). 
You'll need help from a Windows list to modify the size of the actual 
Windows partition.



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Re: moving partion to newer drive

[Beolach]

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Hash: SHA1

Ray Olszewski wrote:
| At 08:25 PM 2/24/2004 -0500, Karthik Vishwanath wrote:
|
|>Hello,
|>
|>I have a dual-boot system (with windows-98 and redhat 7.3) setup on an old
|>hard disk. I recently obtained a new hard drive and have their order
|>configured such that the old drive is /dev/hda and the new one is
|>/dev/hdb. The partitions on /dev/hda are as follows:
|>
|>/dev/hda1   *         1       960   7703608+   c  Win95 FAT32 (LBA)
|>/dev/hda2           960       963     30240   83  Linux
|>/dev/hda3           963      1365   3228120   83  Linux
|>/dev/hda4          1365      1653   2313360    5  Extended
|>/dev/hda5          1365      1397    257008+  82  Linux swap
|>/dev/hda6          1397      1653   2056288+  83  Linux
|>
|>with /dev/hda2 -> /boot, /dev/hda3 -> /, /dev/hda6 -> /home.
|>
|>The partitions on /dev/hdb are defined as:
|>
|>/dev/hdb1             1      6684  53689198+   c  Win95 FAT32 (LBA)
|>/dev/hdb2          6685      8143  11719417+  83  Linux
|>/dev/hdb3          8144      9600  11703352+  83  Linux
|>/dev/hdb4          9601      9729   1036192+  82  Linux swap
|>
|>
|>I want to: install Fedora on /dev/hdb by making /dev/hdb2 -> /, copy
|>/dev/hda6 to /dev/hdb3 (-> /home) and successfully dual-boot. I have the
|>following questions;
|>
|>1. Can I boot from the Fedora CD and get the installation going (with
|>properly defined partitions) and subsequently mounting and copying
/dev/hda6
|>to /home, without disturbing anything on /dev/hda at all?
|
|
| You should be able to. I haven't actually done a Fedora install, but
I'd be
| amazed if it couldn't handle this configuration.
|
|
|>2. Is it preferred that I preserve the /boot partition - i.e. will it help
|>if /boot remains on /dev/hda2?
|
|
| It mainly depends on what your BIOS will put up with. LILO (or do you use
| GRUB?) doesn't care where the boot partition (in effect, the Linux
kernel)
| is, as long as the BIOS can find it. The historical reason for a separate
| boot partition was the old 1024-cylinder limit for BIOS access, a limit
| long gone. I've seen some occasional BIOS problems still, though, with
| drives over 40 GB. If your system has such a problem, you'll need a boot
| partition spmewhere near the front of one of the drives.
|
|
|>3. What are the details I must watch out for in this process?
|
|
| Hard to say, aside from inane advice like "Don't do anything silly".
You've
| pretty much asked the right questions.
|
| As long as you tell Fedora to install to hdb2, it should ignore all the
| hda* partitions (except maybe for asking you if you want to specify mount
| points for them). And, as I said, you will have to wait and see if you
can
| boot a kernel located on hdb2.
|
| Remember that with this approach, you're still installing lilo (or
GRUB or
| whatever) on the MBR of hda. So you'll need either to add back in the
| multi-boot stuff that lets Windows boot, or install Fedora to boot from
| floppy, then edit your existing multiboot setup to add Fedora to it.
|
| Were I doing this, I think I'd do it the reverse way -- make the new
drive
| hda and the old one hdb. Fiddle with the partitioning as needed to get a
| working /boot partition for Linux. Probably only have one real Linux
| partition (plus a small /boot partition), just to avoid an Extended
| partition ... though the merits of that idea depend completely on what
you
| actually use this system for.
|
| Then install Windows to the new hda1, Linux to the new hda2 and hda3 ...
| and use the old drive, however you reconfigure it, as a data drive.
|
|
|>4. Finally - if all goes well, can I delete partitions /dev/hda(2)3-6 and
|>make /dev/hda available as one single partition, without hosing windows?
|
|
| Not with Linux tools (though fdisk can easily delete hda2-6 for you).
| You'll need help from a Windows list to modify the size of the actual
| Windows partition.
|
|

Ray covered everything really well, just a couple things I wanted to
add.  First, like Ray I would also suggest switching the harddrives so
the new one was hda & the old one was  hdb.  The Linux Doc Project has a
good mini-howto on this (although they describe completely swapping out
the old hard drive, but it would be easy just to reformat it for a data
drive like Ray mentioned).  The Hard Disk Upgrade mini-Howto is at:
<http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Hard-Disk-Upgrade/index.html>

Secondly, on your last question:
|>4. Finally - if all goes well, can I delete partitions /dev/hda(2)3-6
|>and make /dev/hda available as one single partition, without hosing
|>windows?
|
| Not with Linux tools (though fdisk can easily delete hda2-6 for you).
| You'll need help from a Windows list to modify the size of the actual
| Windows partition.

I have never used it myself, but I believe GNU parted may do what you
are describing.  GNU parted is a program for advanced manipulation of
disk partitions.  If it isn't already installed on your system, you can
get it at: <http://www.gnu.org/software/parted/parted.html>.  Of course,
while it hopefully wouldn't hose windows, there is no guarantee.

Just my 2 cents,
Conway S. Smith
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Re: moving partion to newer drive

[Karthik Vishwanath]

Thanks for your response, Ray. I am still not particularly clear about the
/boot partition -- what exactly is it used for? I did have an older BIOS
on this hard-drive a while ago, and needed the /boot partition then to
dual boot.  Now, if my BIOS can "see" all of /dev/hdb then its not
necessary for this partition to exist?

I would probably use GRUB as the bootloader -- isn't it likely that GRUB
will be able to figure out how to modify my MBR on /dev/hda so that I
could boot windows from /dev/hda and Linux from /dev/hdb? Whats a good way
to save the MBR and the partition-info (and restore, if need be)?

I would like to follow your advice in switching the drives around and
reinstalling both windows and Linux -- but, all I have for the windows
"install" CD is a custom HP-disk which is quite useless now, since I
don't have the HP-system anymore :-? Moreover, there are way too many
things installed under the m$oft-OS, that I don't wish to go through
trying to reinstall.

-K


On Tue, 24 Feb 2004, at 6:11pm, Ray Olszewski wrote:

> >1. Can I boot from the Fedora CD and get the installation going (with
> >properly defined partitions) and subsequently mounting and copying /dev/hda6
> >to /home, without disturbing anything on /dev/hda at all?
> 
> You should be able to. I haven't actually done a Fedora install, but I'd be 
> amazed if it couldn't handle this configuration.
> 
> >2. Is it preferred that I preserve the /boot partition - i.e. will it help
> >if /boot remains on /dev/hda2?
> 
> It mainly depends on what your BIOS will put up with. LILO (or do you use 
> GRUB?) doesn't care where the boot partition (in effect, the Linux kernel) 
> is, as long as the BIOS can find it. The historical reason for a separate 
> boot partition was the old 1024-cylinder limit for BIOS access, a limit 
> long gone. I've seen some occasional BIOS problems still, though, with 
> drives over 40 GB. If your system has such a problem, you'll need a boot 
> partition spmewhere near the front of one of the drives.
> 
> >3. What are the details I must watch out for in this process?
> 
> Hard to say, aside from inane advice like "Don't do anything silly". You've 
> pretty much asked the right questions.
> 
> As long as you tell Fedora to install to hdb2, it should ignore all the 
> hda* partitions (except maybe for asking you if you want to specify mount 
> points for them). And, as I said, you will have to wait and see if you can 
> boot a kernel located on hdb2.
> 
> Remember that with this approach, you're still installing lilo (or GRUB or 
> whatever) on the MBR of hda. So you'll need either to add back in the 
> multi-boot stuff that lets Windows boot, or install Fedora to boot from 
> floppy, then edit your existing multiboot setup to add Fedora to it.
> 
> Were I doing this, I think I'd do it the reverse way -- make the new drive 
> hda and the old one hdb. Fiddle with the partitioning as needed to get a 
> working /boot partition for Linux. Probably only have one real Linux 
> partition (plus a small /boot partition), just to avoid an Extended 
> partition ... though the merits of that idea depend completely on what you 
> actually use this system for.
> 
> Then install Windows to the new hda1, Linux to the new hda2 and hda3 ... 
> and use the old drive, however you reconfigure it, as a data drive.
> 
> >4. Finally - if all goes well, can I delete partitions /dev/hda(2)3-6 and
> >make /dev/hda available as one single partition, without hosing windows?
> 
> Not with Linux tools (though fdisk can easily delete hda2-6 for you). 
> You'll need help from a Windows list to modify the size of the actual 
> Windows partition.
> 
> 
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-newbie" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> Please read the FAQ at http://www.linux-learn.org/faqs
> 

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Re: moving partion to newer drive

[Ray Olszewski]

At 01:48 AM 2/25/2004 -0500, Karthik Vishwanath wrote:
>Thanks for your response, Ray. I am still not particularly clear about the
>/boot partition -- what exactly is it used for? I did have an older BIOS
>on this hard-drive a while ago, and needed the /boot partition then to
>dual boot.  Now, if my BIOS can "see" all of /dev/hdb then its not
>necessary for this partition to exist?

Right. /boot (the directory) is where, by convention, you put the image of 
the Linux kernel that lilo or GRUB (or something else) will load at 
boottime. SInce the kernel hasn't been loaded yet, the bootloader has to 
rely on the BIOS to access the portion of the hard disk where the 
kernel-image resides. So if the BIOS cannot access that location, the 
kernel cannot load.

Usually (actually, I've never seen an exception with ide drives, but I 
don't know enough to say always) even if the BIOS cannot access the entire 
hard disk, it can access the "first" part of it. So a traditional 
workaround is to make /boot its own small partition, say 50 MB, best 
created as hda1 to be sure you're where the BIOS can find it.

BTW, the Linux kernel does not use the BIOS to access hard disks. That's 
why it can access portions of a hard disk that the BIOS cannot see. But the 
kernel can't use this trick to load itself, for what I hope are obvious 
reasons.

>I would probably use GRUB as the bootloader -- isn't it likely that GRUB
>will be able to figure out how to modify my MBR on /dev/hda so that I
>could boot windows from /dev/hda and Linux from /dev/hdb? Whats a good way
>to save the MBR and the partition-info (and restore, if need be)?

Actually, as I recall (I use lilo, not GRUB, so I'm a bit hazy on this), if 
you are now running GRUB, you won't need to modify the actual MBR to change 
things. GRUB is a multi-stage bootloader, and only the first pieces is in 
the MBR. A later stage actually reads the GRUB config file during boot.  If 
you're now using lilo, then you will need either to reinstall it or install 
GRUB.

I don't know a way to read the actual  MBR; normally, you would "save" it 
by keeping the LILO or GRUB config file you used to install it.

>I would like to follow your advice in switching the drives around and
>reinstalling both windows and Linux -- but, all I have for the windows
>"install" CD is a custom HP-disk which is quite useless now, since I
>don't have the HP-system anymore :-? Moreover, there are way too many
>things installed under the m$oft-OS, that I don't wish to go through
>trying to reinstall.



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moving partion to newer drive

[Karthik Vishwanath]

Hello,

I have a dual-boot system (with windows-98 and redhat 7.3) setup on an old
hard disk. I recently obtained a new hard drive and have their order
configured such that the old drive is /dev/hda and the new one is
/dev/hdb. The partitions on /dev/hda are as follows:

/dev/hda1   *         1       960   7703608+   c  Win95 FAT32 (LBA)
/dev/hda2           960       963     30240   83  Linux
/dev/hda3           963      1365   3228120   83  Linux
/dev/hda4          1365      1653   2313360    5  Extended
/dev/hda5          1365      1397    257008+  82  Linux swap
/dev/hda6          1397      1653   2056288+  83  Linux

with /dev/hda2 -> /boot, /dev/hda3 -> /, /dev/hda6 -> /home. 

The partitions on /dev/hdb are defined as:

/dev/hdb1             1      6684  53689198+   c  Win95 FAT32 (LBA)
/dev/hdb2          6685      8143  11719417+  83  Linux
/dev/hdb3          8144      9600  11703352+  83  Linux
/dev/hdb4          9601      9729   1036192+  82  Linux swap


I want to: install Fedora on /dev/hdb by making /dev/hdb2 -> /, copy
/dev/hda6 to /dev/hdb3 (-> /home) and successfully dual-boot. I have the 
following questions;

1. Can I boot from the Fedora CD and get the installation going (with
properly defined partitions) and subsequently mounting and copying /dev/hda6
to /home, without disturbing anything on /dev/hda at all?
	
2. Is it preferred that I preserve the /boot partition - i.e. will it help
if /boot remains on /dev/hda2? 

3. What are the details I must watch out for in this process?

4. Finally - if all goes well, can I delete partitions /dev/hda(2)3-6 and
make /dev/hda available as one single partition, without hosing windows?

Thanks in advance,

-K

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