* Badness in local_bh_enable
@ 2004-03-03 5:03 Diwaker Gupta
0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Diwaker Gupta @ 2004-03-03 5:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: linux-kernel
+ Summary:
Getting repeated badness in local_bh_enable messages in syslog.
+ Description:
Here's a sample output from dmesg:
Badness in local_bh_enable at kernel/softirq.c:121
Call Trace:
[<c01241f9>] local_bh_enable+0x89/0x90
[<c012f985>] worker_thread+0x1c5/0x260
[<e0995230>] xmit_bh+0x0/0xe0 [ndiswrapper]
[<c011ccb0>] default_wake_function+0x0/0x20
[<c010b2d2>] ret_from_fork+0x6/0x14
[<c011ccb0>] default_wake_function+0x0/0x20
[<c012f7c0>] worker_thread+0x0/0x260
[<c01092a5>] kernel_thread_helper+0x5/0x10
+ Environment
Linux 2.6.3 vanilla from kernel.org
LIRC patch from <http://flameeyes.web.ctonet.it/downloads.html#lirc>
I searched the archives and got a few lines here and there talking about
PPP problems giving rise to similar messages. However, I'm not using PPP
at all, and was having no such messages till 2.6.2. There were also some
messages talking about IrDA issues, and I am using IrDA (which works fine).
If this indeed is an IrDA problem, where can I find patches to fix it.
If not, what else could be the problem?
Thanks
--
Diwaker Gupta
Graduate Student, Computer Sc. and Engg.
University of California, San Diego
<http://www.cs.ucsd.edu/~dgupta>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Badness in local_bh_enable
@ 2005-03-07 9:47 Nicholas Lee
0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Nicholas Lee @ 2005-03-07 9:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: xen-devel
I'm getting a whole pile of this error messages in the dom0 syslog.
Mar 7 22:34:38 stateless kernel: Badness in local_bh_enable at kernel/softirq.c:140
Mar 7 22:34:38 stateless kernel: [local_bh_enable+130/144] local_bh_enable+0x82/0x90
Mar 7 22:34:38 stateless kernel: [skb_checksum+317/720] skb_checksum+0x13d/0x2d0
Mar 7 22:34:38 stateless kernel: [udp_poll+154/352] udp_poll+0x9a/0x160
Mar 7 22:34:38 stateless kernel: [sock_poll+41/64] sock_poll+0x29/0x40
Mar 7 22:34:38 stateless kernel: [do_pollfd+149/160] do_pollfd+0x95/0xa0
Mar 7 22:34:38 stateless kernel: [do_poll+106/208] do_poll+0x6a/0xd0
Mar 7 22:34:38 stateless kernel: [sys_poll+353/576] sys_poll+0x161/0x240
Mar 7 22:34:38 stateless kernel: [sys_gettimeofday+60/144] sys_gettimeofday+0x3c/0x90
Mar 7 22:34:38 stateless kernel: [__pollwait+0/208] __pollwait+0x0/0xd0
Mar 7 22:34:38 stateless kernel: [syscall_call+7/11] syscall_call+0x7/0xb
Mar 7 22:34:38 stateless kernel: Badness in local_bh_enable at kernel/softirq.c:140
Mar 7 22:34:38 stateless kernel: [local_bh_enable+130/144] local_bh_enable+0x82/0x90
Mar 7 22:34:38 stateless kernel: [skb_checksum+317/720] skb_checksum+0x13d/0x2d0
Mar 7 22:34:38 stateless kernel: [udp_poll+154/352] udp_poll+0x9a/0x160
Mar 7 22:34:38 stateless kernel: [sock_poll+41/64] sock_poll+0x29/0x40
Mar 7 22:34:38 stateless kernel: [do_pollfd+149/160] do_pollfd+0x95/0xa0
Mar 7 22:34:38 stateless kernel: [do_poll+106/208] do_poll+0x6a/0xd0
Mar 7 22:34:38 stateless kernel: [sys_poll+353/576] sys_poll+0x161/0x240
Mar 7 22:34:38 stateless kernel: [sys_gettimeofday+60/144] sys_gettimeofday+0x3c/0x90
Mar 7 22:34:38 stateless kernel: [__pollwait+0/208] __pollwait+0x0/0xd0
Mar 7 22:34:38 stateless kernel: [syscall_call+7/11] syscall_call+0x7/0xb
I suspect they a caused by some clash between bridging and running a
openvpn/tun in a domU. I'm not certain on this though.
AFAICT it doesn't seem to affect the operation of the machine.
Suggestions on how to track this down.
Version:
Xen version 2.0.4 (nic@localdomain) (gcc version 3.3.5 (Debian 1:3.3.5-6)) Fri Feb 25 06:16:12 NZDT 2005
Latest ChangeSet: 2005/02/04 13:01:10 1.1715 42037216PTjBGQVeEeiwiYxP_vJuyw
Thanks.
Nicholas
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* RE: Badness in local_bh_enable
@ 2005-03-07 10:03 Ian Pratt
2005-03-07 19:57 ` Nicholas Lee
0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Ian Pratt @ 2005-03-07 10:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Nicholas Lee, xen-devel; +Cc: ian.pratt
> I suspect they a caused by some clash between bridging and running a
> openvpn/tun in a domU. I'm not certain on this though.
>
> AFAICT it doesn't seem to affect the operation of the machine.
I'll wager that you compiled some external modules for your kernel and
forgot to specify "ARCH=xen". i386 modules are sufficiently similar to
xen/i386 modules that by some miracle many seem to limp along. In this
case, the driver is probably trying to do cli/sti which are failing
silently due to the ring 1 kernel having insufficient privilege. We've
discussed virtualising iopl such that we could trap (and potentially
emulate) such occurences.
I did some analysis and I reckon that it should be posible to get the
vast majority of i386 modules to work fine. This means that i386 and
xen/i386 could share a module set.
The remaining modules could probably be slightly modified to work too
(e.g. the BusLogic drivers use inlined virt_to_bus directly).
Is this something the distros would be keen on? If so, anyone want to
help?
Ian
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Badness in local_bh_enable
2005-03-07 10:03 Ian Pratt
@ 2005-03-07 19:57 ` Nicholas Lee
0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Nicholas Lee @ 2005-03-07 19:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Ian Pratt; +Cc: xen-devel, ian.pratt
On Mon, Mar 07, 2005 at 10:03:35AM -0000, Ian Pratt wrote:
> I'll wager that you compiled some external modules for your kernel and
> forgot to specify "ARCH=xen". i386 modules are sufficiently similar to
> xen/i386 modules that by some miracle many seem to limp along. In this
> case, the driver is probably trying to do cli/sti which are failing
> silently due to the ring 1 kernel having insufficient privilege. We've
> discussed virtualising iopl such that we could trap (and potentially
> emulate) such occurences.
Is there a way of telling if a module has not been compiled for Xen?
Its possible I might have on one occasion run 'make' with 'ARCH=xen' on
one occasion in the domU linux src directory. Then later realised by
mistake and recompile with the correct ARCH statement. So modules from
the previous non-ARCHed compile run might have polluted the modules and
been installed.
Nicholas
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* RE: Badness in local_bh_enable
@ 2005-03-07 21:55 Ian Pratt
2005-03-08 9:36 ` Nicholas Lee
0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Ian Pratt @ 2005-03-07 21:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Nicholas Lee; +Cc: xen-devel, ian.pratt
> Is there a way of telling if a module has not been compiled for Xen?
You can tell what the kernel version that it was compiled against by
doing:
strings module.ko | grep vermagic=
If you have a extraversion of "-xen0" in your kernel you should see it
in the vermagic.
Alternatively, in your current case you can probably tell by doing:
objdump -d module.ko | grep cli
If you have cli instructions, its not a Xen module (or the source is
horibly broken).
Ian
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Badness in local_bh_enable
2005-03-07 21:55 Ian Pratt
@ 2005-03-08 9:36 ` Nicholas Lee
0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Nicholas Lee @ 2005-03-08 9:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Ian Pratt; +Cc: xen-devel, ian.pratt
On Mon, Mar 07, 2005 at 09:55:36PM -0000, Ian Pratt wrote:
> > Is there a way of telling if a module has not been compiled for Xen?
>
> You can tell what the kernel version that it was compiled against by
> doing:
> strings module.ko | grep vermagic=
>
> If you have a extraversion of "-xen0" in your kernel you should see it
> in the vermagic.
>
> Alternatively, in your current case you can probably tell by doing:
> objdump -d module.ko | grep cli
>
> If you have cli instructions, its not a Xen module (or the source is
> horibly broken).
I guess its fine with the dom0 modules.
nic@stateless:~$ strings /lib/modules/2.6.10-xen0/kernel/net/ipv4/netfilter/ipt_REJECT.ko | grep vermagic=
vermagic=2.6.10-xen0 preempt PENTIUM4 gcc-3.3
nic@stateless:~$ objdump -d /lib/modules/2.6.10-xen0/kernel/net/ipv4/netfilter/ipt_REJECT.ko | grep sti
b6f: fb sti
nic@stateless:~$ objdump -d /lib/modules/2.6.10-xen0/kernel/net/ipv4/netfilter/ipt_REJECT.ko | grep cli
nic@stateless:~$ objdump -d /lib/modules/2.6.10-xen0/kernel/net/rxrpc/rxrpc.ko | grep cli
nic@stateless:~$ objdump -d /lib/modules/2.6.10-xen0/kernel/net/rxrpc/rxrpc.ko | grep sti
1f94: fb sti
nic@stateless:~$ strings /lib/modules/2.6.10-xen0/kernel/net/rxrpc/rxrpc.ko | grep vermagic=
vermagic=2.6.10-xen0 preempt PENTIUM4 gcc-3.3
These seems to be compiled with ARCH=xen.
nic@stateless:~$ strings /lib/modules/2.6.10-xenU/kernel/net/ipv4/netfilter/ipt_REJECT.ko | grep vermagic=
vermagic=2.6.10-xenU preempt PENTIUM4 gcc-3.3
nic@stateless:~$ objdump -d /lib/modules/2.6.10-xenU/kernel/net/ipv4/netfilter/ipt_REJECT.ko | egrep -e sti
b3f: fb sti
nic@stateless:~$ strings /lib/modules/2.6.10-xenU/kernel/net/rxrpc/rxrpc.ko | grep vermagic=
vermagic=2.6.10-xenU preempt PENTIUM4 gcc-3.3
nic@stateless:~$ objdump -d /lib/modules/2.6.10-xenU/kernel/net/rxrpc/rxrpc.ko | egrep -e sti
1f94: fb sti
find /lib/modules/2.6.10-xenU -name \*.ko -exec /tmp/version-check {} \;
nic@stateless:~$ cat /tmp/version-check
#!/bin/bash
strings $1 | grep vermagic= | grep -v 'xenU'
objdump -d $1 | perl -n -e 'print $_ if /\scli/'
objdump -d $1 | perl -n -e 'print $_ if /\ssti/'
Nicholas
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* RE: Badness in local_bh_enable
@ 2005-03-08 11:05 Ian Pratt
2005-04-11 11:10 ` Nick Craig-Wood
0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Ian Pratt @ 2005-03-08 11:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Nicholas Lee; +Cc: xen-devel, ian.pratt
> nic@stateless:~$ strings
> /lib/modules/2.6.10-xen0/kernel/net/rxrpc/rxrpc.ko | grep vermagic=
> vermagic=2.6.10-xen0 preempt PENTIUM4 gcc-3.3
>
> These seems to be compiled with ARCH=xen.
Not necessarily. You may have used that -xen0 tree, but not specified
ARCH=xen. There's no way to tell :-(
> nic@stateless:~$ strings
> /lib/modules/2.6.10-xenU/kernel/net/ipv4/netfilter/ipt_REJECT.
> ko | grep vermagic=
> vermagic=2.6.10-xenU preempt PENTIUM4 gcc-3.3
> nic@stateless:~$ objdump -d
> /lib/modules/2.6.10-xenU/kernel/net/ipv4/netfilter/ipt_REJECT.
> ko | egrep -e sti
> b3f: fb sti
Just finding a cli/sti in the disassembled output does not necessarily
indicate a problem -- objdump frequently gets confused and disassembles
things that are data, particularly after an undefined instruction e.g.
the uda2 used for BUG messages.
You'll need to look at the instructions around the cli/sti to determine
whether they're real or not.
Ian
> nic@stateless:~$ strings
> /lib/modules/2.6.10-xenU/kernel/net/rxrpc/rxrpc.ko | grep vermagic=
> vermagic=2.6.10-xenU preempt PENTIUM4 gcc-3.3
> nic@stateless:~$ objdump -d
> /lib/modules/2.6.10-xenU/kernel/net/rxrpc/rxrpc.ko | egrep -e sti
> 1f94: fb sti
>
>
> find /lib/modules/2.6.10-xenU -name \*.ko -exec
> /tmp/version-check {} \;
> nic@stateless:~$ cat /tmp/version-check
> #!/bin/bash
>
> strings $1 | grep vermagic= | grep -v 'xenU'
> objdump -d $1 | perl -n -e 'print $_ if /\scli/'
> objdump -d $1 | perl -n -e 'print $_ if /\ssti/'
>
>
> Nicholas
>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Badness in local_bh_enable
2005-03-08 11:05 Ian Pratt
@ 2005-04-11 11:10 ` Nick Craig-Wood
0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Nick Craig-Wood @ 2005-04-11 11:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Ian Pratt; +Cc: Nicholas Lee, xen-devel
(re-opening an old thread)
On Tue, Mar 08, 2005 at 11:05:01AM -0000, Ian Pratt wrote:
> > nic@stateless:~$ strings
> > /lib/modules/2.6.10-xen0/kernel/net/rxrpc/rxrpc.ko | grep vermagic=
> > vermagic=2.6.10-xen0 preempt PENTIUM4 gcc-3.3
> >
> > These seems to be compiled with ARCH=xen.
>
> Not necessarily. You may have used that -xen0 tree, but not specified
> ARCH=xen. There's no way to tell :-(
>
> > nic@stateless:~$ strings
> > /lib/modules/2.6.10-xenU/kernel/net/ipv4/netfilter/ipt_REJECT.
> > ko | grep vermagic=
> > vermagic=2.6.10-xenU preempt PENTIUM4 gcc-3.3
> > nic@stateless:~$ objdump -d
> > /lib/modules/2.6.10-xenU/kernel/net/ipv4/netfilter/ipt_REJECT.
> > ko | egrep -e sti
> > b3f: fb sti
>
> Just finding a cli/sti in the disassembled output does not necessarily
> indicate a problem -- objdump frequently gets confused and disassembles
> things that are data, particularly after an undefined instruction e.g.
> the uda2 used for BUG messages.
>
> You'll need to look at the instructions around the cli/sti to determine
> whether they're real or not.
Was this problem ever got to the bottom of?
We are seeing it too. Lots of
Badness in local_bh_enable at kernel/softirq.c:140
[<c011fb12>] local_bh_enable+0x82/0x90
[<c031fcfd>] skb_checksum+0x13d/0x2d0
[<c016ac5c>] __pollwait+0x8c/0xd0
[<c0360d3a>] udp_poll+0x9a/0x160
[<c031af49>] sock_poll+0x29/0x40
[<c016b635>] do_pollfd+0x95/0xa0
[<c016b6aa>] do_poll+0x6a/0xd0
[<c016b871>] sys_poll+0x161/0x240
[<c011f14c>] sys_gettimeofday+0x3c/0x90
[<c016abd0>] __pollwait+0x0/0xd0
[<c0109758>] syscall_call+0x7/0xb
In the logs.
I've checked the loaded modules...
Module Size Used by
sch_sfq 4992 88
cls_u32 8068 101
sch_cbq 15616 13
ipt_state 1664 2
ipt_REJECT 5888 3
ipt_LOG 6528 4
ipt_limit 2176 4
iptable_mangle 2432 0
iptable_filter 3200 1
ip_nat_ftp 4464 0
ip_conntrack_ftp 71600 1 ip_nat_ftp
iptable_nat 23496 1 ip_nat_ftp
ip_conntrack 41364 4 ipt_state,ip_nat_ftp,ip_conntrack_ftp,iptable_nat
ip_tables 17024 7 ipt_state,ipt_REJECT,ipt_LOG,ipt_limit,iptable_mangle,iptable_filter,iptable_nat
e1000 84788 0
And these all have the right vermagic
# strings `cat /tmp/modules` | grep vermagic
vermagic=2.6.10-x1d-p4 preempt PENTIUM4 gcc-3.3
vermagic=2.6.10-x1d-p4 preempt PENTIUM4 gcc-3.3
vermagic=2.6.10-x1d-p4 preempt PENTIUM4 gcc-3.3
vermagic=2.6.10-x1d-p4 preempt PENTIUM4 gcc-3.3
vermagic=2.6.10-x1d-p4 preempt PENTIUM4 gcc-3.3
vermagic=2.6.10-x1d-p4 preempt PENTIUM4 gcc-3.3
vermagic=2.6.10-x1d-p4 preempt PENTIUM4 gcc-3.3
vermagic=2.6.10-x1d-p4 preempt PENTIUM4 gcc-3.3
vermagic=2.6.10-x1d-p4 preempt PENTIUM4 gcc-3.3
vermagic=2.6.10-x1d-p4 preempt PENTIUM4 gcc-3.3
vermagic=2.6.10-x1d-p4 preempt PENTIUM4 gcc-3.3
vermagic=2.6.10-x1d-p4 preempt PENTIUM4 gcc-3.3
vermagic=2.6.10-x1d-p4 preempt PENTIUM4 gcc-3.3
vermagic=2.6.10-x1d-p4 preempt PENTIUM4 gcc-3.3
vermagic=2.6.10-x1d-p4 preempt PENTIUM4 gcc-3.3
# objdump -d `cat /tmp/modules` | grep -c cli
0
# objdump -d `cat /tmp/modules` | grep -c sti
2
Those two are clearly caused by bodged dissasembly, eg
b65: ff 8b 5c 24 38 85 decl 0x8538245c(%ebx)
b6b: db 0f fisttpl (%edi)
b6d: 84 d2 test %dl,%dl
b6f: fb sti
b70: ff (bad)
b71: ff 8b 43 04 85 c0 decl 0xc0850443(%ebx)
I built the kernel using debian's make-kpkg which I wouldn't have
thought would have made a mistake.
Any other ideas?
This is kernel 2.6.10 running with xen 2.04.
--
Nick Craig-Wood <nick@craig-wood.com> -- http://www.craig-wood.com/nick
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* RE: Badness in local_bh_enable
@ 2005-04-11 11:19 Ian Pratt
2005-04-11 11:49 ` Nicholas Lee
2005-04-11 12:35 ` Nick Craig-Wood
0 siblings, 2 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Ian Pratt @ 2005-04-11 11:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Nick Craig-Wood; +Cc: Nicholas Lee, xen-devel
> Badness in local_bh_enable at kernel/softirq.c:140
> [<c011fb12>] local_bh_enable+0x82/0x90 [<c031fcfd>]
> skb_checksum+0x13d/0x2d0 [<c016ac5c>] __pollwait+0x8c/0xd0
> [<c0360d3a>] udp_poll+0x9a/0x160 [<c031af49>]
> sock_poll+0x29/0x40 [<c016b635>] do_pollfd+0x95/0xa0
> [<c016b6aa>] do_poll+0x6a/0xd0 [<c016b871>]
> sys_poll+0x161/0x240 [<c011f14c>] sys_gettimeofday+0x3c/0x90
> [<c016abd0>] __pollwait+0x0/0xd0 [<c0109758>] syscall_call+0x7/0xb
This only happened when you had two virtual NICs enabled on a domU,
right?
It's on the list of issues to try and reproduce and investigate when we
get a chance. Having further reports that the problem goes away with
just a single NIC would be useful.
Ian
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Badness in local_bh_enable
2005-04-11 11:19 Ian Pratt
@ 2005-04-11 11:49 ` Nicholas Lee
2005-04-11 12:35 ` Nick Craig-Wood
1 sibling, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Nicholas Lee @ 2005-04-11 11:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Ian Pratt; +Cc: Nicholas Lee, xen-devel, Nick Craig-Wood
On Apr 11, 2005 11:19 PM, Ian Pratt <m+Ian.Pratt@cl.cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> This only happened when you had two virtual NICs enabled on a domU,
> right?
>
> It's on the list of issues to try and reproduce and investigate when we
> get a chance. Having further reports that the problem goes away with
> just a single NIC would be useful.
I have several domUs with 2 NICs. One set hooked to xen-br0, another
(internal) set hooked to a dummy NIC/bridge.
I had this problem, but it went away when I went from 2.0.3 to
2.0.4-testing and did a (very) clean recompile of Xen. Usually I
ARCH=xen menuconfig in the kernel dir, then make in the xen dir.
Originally I think I was getting this only a domU that was using
openvpn2/tun. Now this dom doesn't cause any problems with
2.0.5-testing.
One of the things I did was remove any modules that I didn't need.
This might have removed a module that although not loaded might have
been causing issues. I'm not sure exactly how this might work though.
Nicholas
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Badness in local_bh_enable
2005-04-11 11:19 Ian Pratt
2005-04-11 11:49 ` Nicholas Lee
@ 2005-04-11 12:35 ` Nick Craig-Wood
1 sibling, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Nick Craig-Wood @ 2005-04-11 12:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Ian Pratt; +Cc: Nicholas Lee, xen-devel
On Mon, Apr 11, 2005 at 12:19:30PM +0100, Ian Pratt wrote:
> > Badness in local_bh_enable at kernel/softirq.c:140
> > [<c011fb12>] local_bh_enable+0x82/0x90 [<c031fcfd>]
> > skb_checksum+0x13d/0x2d0 [<c016ac5c>] __pollwait+0x8c/0xd0
> > [<c0360d3a>] udp_poll+0x9a/0x160 [<c031af49>]
> > sock_poll+0x29/0x40 [<c016b635>] do_pollfd+0x95/0xa0
> > [<c016b6aa>] do_poll+0x6a/0xd0 [<c016b871>]
> > sys_poll+0x161/0x240 [<c011f14c>] sys_gettimeofday+0x3c/0x90
> > [<c016abd0>] __pollwait+0x0/0xd0 [<c0109758>] syscall_call+0x7/0xb
>
> This only happened when you had two virtual NICs enabled on a domU,
> right?
No, all the domUs have one nic only. Each NIC has multiple IP
addresses.
> It's on the list of issues to try and reproduce and investigate when we
> get a chance. Having further reports that the problem goes away with
> just a single NIC would be useful.
Possibly relevant or not - we don't bridge the domUs we route them.
--
Nick Craig-Wood <nick@craig-wood.com> -- http://www.craig-wood.com/nick
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2005-04-11 12:35 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 11+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
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2004-03-03 5:03 Badness in local_bh_enable Diwaker Gupta
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2005-03-07 9:47 Nicholas Lee
2005-03-07 10:03 Ian Pratt
2005-03-07 19:57 ` Nicholas Lee
2005-03-07 21:55 Ian Pratt
2005-03-08 9:36 ` Nicholas Lee
2005-03-08 11:05 Ian Pratt
2005-04-11 11:10 ` Nick Craig-Wood
2005-04-11 11:19 Ian Pratt
2005-04-11 11:49 ` Nicholas Lee
2005-04-11 12:35 ` Nick Craig-Wood
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