[parisc-linux] B1000/C3000

[parisc-linux] B1000/C3000

[Ulrich Deiters]

I just wanted to install parisc-linux 3.0r2 on a HP C3000, 
using an external serial terminal. The installation went more 
or less smoothly, but the X server does not come up.

The kdm log says "no screens found".

I note that there is no X*screens file in /etc/kde2/kdm, but I do 
not know whether this is normal or not - this is my first Debian 
installation.

What must I do to get my X server running? Or is it hopeless, 
because the HP graphics card (FX2) is not supported?

Regards,

Ulrich Deiters

RE: [parisc-linux] B1000/C3000

[Joel Soete]

>What must I do to get my X server running? Or is it hopeless, 
>because the HP graphics card (FX2) is not supported?

I never know why but unfortunately it isn't supported :(

Joel

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tiscali ADSL: 35 €/mois, la meilleure offre du marché!
http://reg.tiscali.be/default.asp?lg=fr

Re: [parisc-linux] B1000/C3000

[Helge Deller]

On Wednesday 14 April 2004 11:44, Ulrich Deiters wrote:
> I just wanted to install parisc-linux 3.0r2 on a HP C3000, 
> using an external serial terminal. The installation went more 
> or less smoothly, but the X server does not come up.
> 
> The kdm log says "no screens found".
> 
> I note that there is no X*screens file in /etc/kde2/kdm, but I do 
> not know whether this is normal or not - this is my first Debian 
> installation.
> 
> What must I do to get my X server running? Or is it hopeless, 
> because the HP graphics card (FX2) is not supported?

FX2 is not supported, but since you install via serial terminal,
you could still run a X Server on your local PC-machine (e.g. via Xnest)
and display there what you would see on the PA-machine.

Helge

[parisc-linux] B1000/C3000

[Deiters]

Dear Joel, dear Helge,

thank you for your fast reaction! As the C3000 is my "local PC",
running the X system through another PC or X terminal is not
really an option. I would have to tidy up my desk in order to
make space for the additional equipment ... no, it would probably
be easier to write an FX2 driver. :-)

Is it possible to use a non-HP graphics card in a HP computer,
or is the question sacrilegious?

Regards,

Ulrich

Re: [parisc-linux] B1000/C3000

[John David Anglin]

> Is it possible to use a non-HP graphics card in a HP computer,
> or is the question sacrilegious?

Get a HP Vis EG card.  A Voodoo2 may also work.  Search the list.

Dave
-- 
J. David Anglin                                  dave.anglin@nrc-cnrc.gc.ca
National Research Council of Canada              (613) 990-0752 (FAX: 952-6602)

Re: [parisc-linux] B1000/C3000

[M. Grabert]

On Wed, 14 Apr 2004, John David Anglin wrote:

> > Is it possible to use a non-HP graphics card in a HP computer,
> > or is the question sacrilegious?
>
> Get a HP Vis EG card.  A Voodoo2 may also work.  Search the list.

I think this should be added to the FAQ, like

"What non-HP PCI graphic cards are supported/work with PA-RISC Linux"


Greetings,
   Max

Re: [parisc-linux] B1000/C3000

[M. Grabert]

On Wed, 14 Apr 2004, Randolph Chung wrote:

> > "What non-HP PCI graphic cards are supported/work with PA-RISC Linux"
>
> would you like to write up the entry and send it to the list?

Okay, it's not a patch/diff, it's not XHTML, but a start:


====
Q: Can I use a non-HP PCI graphic cards with PA-RISC Linux?

A: Depends on which graphics card you are using.

   Most graphics card have to be initialized by the computer
   before it can  be used. Usually this is done by the BIOS on (ix86-PCs),
   the PDC (on PA-RISC) or OpenFirmware (on Sun and MACs), which run a
   initialization programme stored on the graphics card.

   Unfortunately each of these ways is incompatible with each other, so
   you cannot initialize a PC graphics card using the PA-RISC PDC.
   Therefore the graphic card vendors produce different versions for
   each platform (e.g. ATI produces different 'Fire GL' graphics cards for
   PC, MAC and PA-RISC).

   This leads to the following problems:


   - PA-RISC PDC doesn't know how to use a non-HP graphics card

      Eg. you will not be able to use the boot menu with a non-HP graphics
      card.
      Unfortunately we are not able to provide a work-around for this
      problem, since this would require patching the PDC firmware.
      Therefore you have to use the serial console if you want access
      the boot menu.


   - You have to initialize a non-HP graphics card somehow


     1. Linux framebuffer driver
     ---------------------------
     Some graphic cards that can be initialized by the linux framebuffer
     drivers directly, and might work on PA-RISC Linux.
     This is an incomplete list:

       - Voodoo2
       - ATI Rage XL
       - older Matrox Millenium

     So far had success reports for the Voodoo2 and the ATI Rage XL card.
     In combination with the fbdev X-server from XFree86/X.org
     you should able to have a nice X11 desktop.



     2. XFree86/X.org driver
     -----------------------
     Another approach is to use the XFree86/X.org graphic card drivers:

     The XFree86/X.org server contains a small ix86-Emulator that is able
     to initialize some graphic cards on non-ix86 systems. However it
     is far from being perfect, so you shouldn't expect that it will
     work with your card.

     An advantage of this approach is that you would be able to use
     some advanced features of your graphics card, like 2D/3D
     acceleration, graphics overlay etc.

     Unfortunately we haven't heard any success stories from anyone using
     this aproach.
===


Any comments/corrections?


Greetings,
  Max

Re: [parisc-linux] B1000/C3000

[Randolph Chung]

In reference to a message from M. Grabert, dated Apr 15:
> On Wed, 14 Apr 2004, Randolph Chung wrote:
> 
> > > "What non-HP PCI graphic cards are supported/work with PA-RISC Linux"
> >
> > would you like to write up the entry and send it to the list?
> 
> Okay, it's not a patch/diff, it's not XHTML, but a start:

checked in, thanks.

randolph
-- 
Randolph Chung
Debian GNU/Linux Developer, hppa/ia64 ports
http://www.tausq.org/

Re: [parisc-linux] B1000/C3000

[Grant Grundler]

On Thu, Apr 15, 2004 at 03:04:10AM +0100, M. Grabert wrote:
> Okay, it's not a patch/diff, it's not XHTML, but a start:

I've hacked it a bit and committed to CVS (repository "web").
Please submit patches against graphics-howto.x for further
modifications.

Please let me know if you are (a) ok with the "Artistic Commons License"
and (b) changes I made to the text.

thanks,
grant

Re: [parisc-linux] B1000/C3000

[M. Grabert]

On Thu, 15 Apr 2004, Grant Grundler wrote:

> I've hacked it a bit and committed to CVS (repository "web").
> Please submit patches against graphics-howto.x for further
> modifications.
>
> Please let me know if you are (a) ok with the "Artistic Commons License"
> and (b) changes I made to the text.

No problem with (a), and (b) also looks fine, excepts that

1. "Linux framebuffer driver" and "XFree86/X.org driver" should better be
   subtopics to "Which non-HP PCI graphic card with PA-RISC Linux" (sic),
   or perhaps even subtopics "You have to initialize a non-HP graphics ...."

2. It should be "Which non-HP PCI graphic cards *work* with PA-RISC Linux"


Thanks,
  Max

Re: [parisc-linux] B1000/C3000

[Grant Grundler]

On Thu, Apr 15, 2004 at 08:42:56PM +0100, M. Grabert wrote:
> > Please submit patches against graphics-howto.x for further
> > modifications.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

> No problem with (a), and (b) also looks fine,

ok

> 1. "Linux framebuffer driver" and "XFree86/X.org driver" should better be
>    subtopics to "Which non-HP PCI graphic card with PA-RISC Linux" (sic),
>    or perhaps even subtopics "You have to initialize a non-HP graphics ...."
> 
> 2. It should be "Which non-HP PCI graphic cards *work* with PA-RISC Linux"

Patches would be alot easier...

thanks,
grant

Re: [parisc-linux] B1000/C3000

[M. Grabert]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: TEXT/PLAIN, Size: 304 bytes --]

On Thu, 15 Apr 2004, Grant Grundler wrote:

> > 2. It should be "Which non-HP PCI graphic cards *work* with PA-RISC Linux"
>
> Patches would be alot easier...

Here you go ...

I attached a 'cvs diff -u src/faq/graphics-howto.x', I hope that's the
normal way to prepare do a CVS patch.


Greetings,
  Max

[-- Attachment #2: Type: TEXT/plain, Size: 2638 bytes --]

Index: src/faq/graphics-howto.x
===================================================================
RCS file: /var/cvs/web/src/faq/graphics-howto.x,v
retrieving revision 1.2
diff -u -r1.2 graphics-howto.x
--- a/src/faq/graphics-howto.x	15 Apr 2004 16:08:02 -0000	1.2
+++ b/src/faq/graphics-howto.x	16 Apr 2004 02:23:20 -0000
@@ -33,10 +33,9 @@
 
 Unfortunately no 2D or 3D acceleration support is in the
 X11 drivers. Only raw frame buffer is supported.
-
-<h2>Which non-HP PCI graphic cards with PA-RISC Linux?</h2>
-<br>
-Depends on which graphics card you are using.
+<br><br>
+<h2>Which non-HP PCI graphic cards work with PA-RISC Linux?</h2>
+Depends on which graphics card you are using.<br><br>
 Most graphics card have to be initialized by firmware before
 the OS driver can use the card.
 Usually this is done by the BIOS on (ix86-PCs),
@@ -44,11 +43,11 @@
 initialization program stored on the graphics card.
 <br>
 Unfortunately each of these firmware is incompatible with other
-computers. PA-RISC PDC cannot initialize a PC graphics card.
+computers. For example, a PA-RISC PDC cannot initialize a PC graphics card.
 Therefore the graphic card vendors produce different versions for
 each platform (e.g. ATI produces different 'Fire GL' graphics cards for
 PC, MAC and PA-RISC).
-<br>
+<br><br>
 This leads to the following problems:
 <br>
 <ul>
@@ -58,11 +57,9 @@
 	problem, since this would require patching the PDC firmware.
 	Use serial console to access the PDC boot menu.
 
-	<li> You have to initialize a non-HP graphics card somehow
-</ul>
+	<li> You have to initialize a non-HP graphics card somehow:
 
-<h2>Linux framebuffer driver</h2>
-<br>
+<h3>Linux framebuffer driver</h3>
 Some graphic cards can be initialized by the linux framebuffer
 drivers directly, and might work on PA-RISC Linux.
 This is an incomplete list:
@@ -73,10 +70,9 @@
 </ul>
 To date, Voodoo2 and ATI Rage XL card are reported to have worked.
 In combination with the fbdev X-server from XFree86/X.org
-you should able to have a nice X11 desktop.
+you should able to have a nice (albeit unaccelerated) X11 desktop.
 
-<h2>XFree86/X.org driver</h2>
-<br>
+<h3>XFree86/X.org driver</h3>
 Another approach is to use the XFree86/X.org graphic card drivers.
 <br>
 The XFree86/X.org server contains a small ix86-Emulator that is able
@@ -87,6 +83,7 @@
 An advantage of this approach would be the ability to use
 advanced features of the graphics card, like 2D/3D
 acceleration, graphics overlay etc.
+</ul>
 <br>
 <hr>
 <p><i>Last revised: Thu Apr 15 09:06:29 PDT 2004</i></p>

Re: [parisc-linux] B1000/C3000

[Grant Grundler]

On Fri, Apr 16, 2004 at 03:26:37AM +0100, M. Grabert wrote:
> I attached a 'cvs diff -u src/faq/graphics-howto.x', I hope that's the
> normal way to prepare do a CVS patch.

Yes - Patch applied!

parisc-linux has a "default ~/.cvsrc" in the "build-tools" CVS repository.
	build-tools/cvsrc

This includes the equivalent to "-u".

thanks,
grant

Re: [parisc-linux] B1000/C3000

[Corné Beerse]

Helge Deller wrote:

> On Wednesday 14 April 2004 11:44, Ulrich Deiters wrote:
> 
>>I just wanted to install parisc-linux 3.0r2 on a HP C3000, 
>>using an external serial terminal. The installation went more 
>>or less smoothly, but the X server does not come up.
>>
>>The kdm log says "no screens found".
>>
>>I note that there is no X*screens file in /etc/kde2/kdm, but I do 
>>not know whether this is normal or not - this is my first Debian 
>>installation.
>>
>>What must I do to get my X server running? Or is it hopeless, 
>>because the HP graphics card (FX2) is not supported?
> 
> 
> FX2 is not supported, but since you install via serial terminal,
> you could still run a X Server on your local PC-machine (e.g. via Xnest)
> and display there what you would see on the PA-machine.
> 
That gave me the next idea:
Use Xvnc (the core of vnc from http://www.realvnc.com/) as the default Xserver. 
Then you have both a text console (the terminal or whatever) and a local display 
(be it that it is not hardware accelerated). Now you 'only' need a vncviewer at 
your desktop to use the graphical 'console'.

Be noted that the Xvnc fron DebianWoody crashes on my HP-D370...


CBee

Re: [parisc-linux] B1000/C3000

[Carlos O'Donell]

On Fri, Apr 16, 2004 at 01:00:01PM +0200, Corn? Beerse wrote:
> Be noted that the Xvnc fron DebianWoody crashes on my HP-D370...

Does the viewer from sid crash you box?
Any idea why it crashes?

c.

Re: [parisc-linux] B1000/C3000

[Corné Beerse]

Carlos O'Donell wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 16, 2004 at 01:00:01PM +0200, Corn? Beerse wrote:
> 
>>Be noted that the Xvnc fron DebianWoody crashes on my HP-D370...
> 
> 
> Does the viewer from sid crash you box?

Since my D370 has no graphical display, the viewer will not work, i use the 
viewer on my desktop.

> Any idea why it crashes?

Not jet, not time to investigate, so many other things to do...

The idea to use Xvnc for the X11-server for display :0 just came since I did 
just that on a RedHatLinux server (hp DL380 ;) There it runs without a problem.

I think (well that will be my first step) is that the RedHatLinuxIntel box runs 
in runlevel 5, the graphical runlevel. The D370 is in its text-console runelvel. 
I think I need to force it in its graphical runlevel and convince the Xserver is 
properly configured, even without the hardware. For that I have to dive into 
Debian and its X11 configuration which (I have already seen) differs from 
RedHat, SuSE and HP-UX.

For what its worth, Xvnc can (for a start) just replace the other X11-server 
binary. Once that works (`vncviewer palinux:0` gives a login box), the call to 
Xvnc can be extended with some configuration like colordepth, resolution and 
security, see `Xvnc --help` for a list of options and the `vncserver` script for 
some other details.


CBee