preexisting 'metas'?

preexisting 'metas'?

[David Masover]

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I finally got sick of having the metas directory named 'metas'.  I went
in and found (quite easily -- clean-ish looking code) the label name and
changed it to '...' (sanest option for me).

Well, the '...' in my brother's home dir had some stuff that he'd like
to keep secret -- as in, he doesn't want people to know he has them.
After reboot, his '...' dir still exists, but when I rename it, the
metas dir pops back in.  Then I can't overwrite it again (make a new dir
called '...', or move the old one back).

This is all perfect, and exactly what you'd want/expect.  Just curious
- -- is this intentional/documented?


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Re: preexisting 'metas'?

[mjt]

On Sat, Jun 12, 2004 at 09:04:46PM -0500, David Masover wrote:
>I finally got sick of having the metas directory named 'metas'.  I went
>in and found (quite easily -- clean-ish looking code) the label name and
>changed it to '...' (sanest option for me).

http://mjt.nysv.org/reiser/reiser4.metas.patch
Which is afaik incorporated in some patch sets is not big.

>metas dir pops back in.  Then I can't overwrite it again (make a new dir
>called '...', or move the old one back).

Hans once asked if we would be happy if we could rename the metas/ directory.
I at least opposed this, at least (iirc) as long as it's invisible to readdir,
which it should be until the end of time. Consider people losing their metas
directory, you'd have to be able to look up every name through /proc/ or
something for every cwd.

Thanks, you just tested something I've been thinking about testing for a long
time :)

Anything you decide to reserve from the fs namespace is bound to be reserved
for real use. It's the monkeys, typewriters and Hamlet[1]

[1]
Been years since I read that one, may misremember...

-- 
mjt

Re: preexisting 'metas'?

[Valdis.Kletnieks]

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On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 21:04:46 CDT, David Masover <ninja@slaphack.com>  said:

> Well, the '...' in my brother's home dir had some stuff that he'd like
> to keep secret -- as in, he doesn't want people to know he has them.

Just as an aside, note that calling the directory '...' will only slow down a
clueless person.  Consider that 'du' and 'ls -a' and 'ls -A' will all show them
- as will 'find' and any number of other utilities...

The "first character is a dot so don't list it" convention is there for
usability, not security.  My home directory has 179 .whatever files in it at
the moment - a lot more than non-dot files, in fact.  So the output of 'ls' is
shorter.  It won't work as security unless the people you're trying to hide it
from are so lacking in Unixoid clue that they don't know they have a .profile....

And if he wants to keep it secret, he should be using at *least* enough things
to keep people *that* unclued out.  If they're unclued enough to not be able to
find a . file, how did they get *in*??/

If you want actual *security*, you need to be using something that does actual
crypto.  Jari Ruuso's 'loop-aes' package (on sourceforge) is one example of the
class of software you *want* to be using.



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Re: preexisting 'metas'?

[David Masover]

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Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu wrote:
| On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 21:04:46 CDT, David Masover <ninja@slaphack.com>
said:
|
|
|>Well, the '...' in my brother's home dir had some stuff that he'd like
|>to keep secret -- as in, he doesn't want people to know he has them.
|
|
| Just as an aside, note that calling the directory '...' will only slow
down a
| clueless person.  Consider that 'du' and 'ls -a' and 'ls -A' will all
show them
| - as will 'find' and any number of other utilities...

I think the main thing he wanted was to keep people from noticing such a
directory existed.  And especially jaded sysads might pass over a file
called '...' -- or, more easily, a file called '. ' or '.. '.

Based on the content in that directory, I could just ask him what was in
there and know by watching his reaction.  Either way, it's no big deal.

| And if he wants to keep it secret, he should be using at *least*
enough things
| to keep people *that* unclued out.  If they're unclued enough to not
be able to
| find a . file, how did they get *in*??/

Suppose he's browsing through his home dir with someone on his shoulder,
because he wants to show them something.  If he wasn't hiding things at
all, he'd call it 'xxx'.  Otherwise, he'd call it something boring --
but the shoulder-surfer might ask him what's in there...

| If you want actual *security*, you need to be using something that
does actual
| crypto.  Jari Ruuso's 'loop-aes' package (on sourceforge) is one
example of the
| class of software you *want* to be using.

Yeah right.  I'm root, he's not.  His security is the fact that I'm his
brother.  I demonstrated this to him vividly, when I told him I really
don't care about his password, and so I won't look if he doesn't want me
to (when I first had him enter it) -- then I logged in as root and su'd
to his account.  He thinks it isn't fair.  I built the computer >:)



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