[LARTC] Frottle + Bridge + IMQ

[LARTC] Frottle + Bridge + IMQ

[Marin Stavrev]

Hi,

I'm trying to configure IMQ to work on the same machine with frottle
(http://frottle.sourceforge.net). The problem is both feed themselves
packets through netfilter queueing mechanism, but currently there can
only be one netfilter queue per protocol family.

To explain why I need IMQ in the first place I have to explain what
frottle does. It is a deamon that tweaks the behaviour of a wireless
network (overcoming some CSMA/CA traps that reduce performance in
certain cases like  hidden-node effect for example). For frottle to be
effective it needs to control the outgoing traffic sent to the wireless
network device. In my case it is an external AP with ethernet
connection.
So, my router has 3 NICs - one for WAN access, one for the wireless AP
(that is connected to a distant AP, that servers other wired users), and
one for users connected through wired LAN.

Currently LAN NICs (the frottle one and the wired LAN) are put in a
bridge, which altogether makes the whole LAN a flat one.

Now about IMQ - there are users on the wireless and on the wired LAN
that share a common internet connection. To be able to serve them in a
predetermined, controlled fashion I want to put all traffic that goes
out of eighter LAN NIC into IMQ device and impose QoS policy on top of
it. This will allow to use in the most efficient manner all available
WAN bandwidth.

Is there any patch for 2.4.x kernel that allows multiple (cascading)
queuing ? Is this limitation exists in 2.6 kernel ?

Thanks
M. Stavrev

P.S. I know I can easily solve my problems by using two linux boxes -
one for frottle and one for the internet shaping, still my question
remains, any ideas would be appreciated.



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Re: [LARTC] Frottle + Bridge + IMQ

[Ed Wildgoose]

>To be able to serve them in a
>predetermined, controlled fashion I want to put all traffic that goes
>out of eighter LAN NIC into IMQ device and impose QoS policy on top of
>it. This will allow to use in the most efficient manner all available
>WAN bandwidth.
>

Perhaps I misunderstand, but for outoing on the WAN interface you can 
attach stuff directly.  For incoming you can use iptables to direct it 
to the IMQ device.

Are you saying that using iptables on the WAN interface to direct stuff 
to IMQ then causes problems if you use iptables on the wireless 
interface (to direct to frottle)?  I would have thought you have a clear 
partition on when to use each redirection?

If not, then with some limitations you can of course attach qdiscs to 
the outbound on each of the wireless and wired interfaces.  This makes 
it harder to limit inoming bandwidth, but may be sufficient in some 
circumstances.

If you have simple incoming requirements you could also look at GRED 
which can be attached to the incoming interface, and has multiple 
queues.  See
http://www.opalsoft.net/qos/DS-27.htm

For iptables patches you really want to post to the iptables guys I 
should think?

Ed W
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Re: Re: [LARTC] Frottle + Bridge + IMQ

[Marin Stavrev]

Hi,

Thanks for the response, Ed.
It seems I have not been clear enough. Forget about frottle, currently the
problem is much simpler. I have two NICs in a bridge (which is router's
LAN interface) and another NIC which is the WAN. The upstream can be
easily controlled with an egress qdisc set on WAN interface, so this is
not an issue.
Problems arise when trying to control downstream to LAN users, because now
these stream originate from two sepearate NICs (qdisc's are attached to
physical interfaces, as far as I know I cannot attach egress qdisc to a
bridge device). As far as I see there are 2 possible ways:

1. To create sepearate qdiscs/classes with appropriate filters attached to
the two LAN NICs
2. Virtually bond* together trafic going out of these two NICs with the
help of an IMQ device, and then set  qdiscs/classes filters for the IMQ
device. (* I use bond as a word with general meaning, not the bonding
device)

Solution 1 is suboptimal, because I have to dedicate a certain amount of
bandwidth to LAN NIC1 and the rest to LAN NIC2 - no sharing between would
be possible.

Solution 2 seems to be better (and in fact it works quite well right now).

I have compiled IMQ as a module (with NAT patch).
I have also compiled ip_queue as a module.

Problem is that when imq module is loaded, you can not load the ip_queue
module and v.v.

>For iptables patches you really want to post to the iptables guys I
should think?

You are absolutely right, I'm in the wrong mail list here, but never the
less, some one may suggest a better configuration that deals with such
situations w/o IMQ.

M. Stavrev

>
>To be able to serve them in a
>>predetermined, controlled fashion I want to put all traffic that goes
>>out of eighter LAN NIC into IMQ device and impose QoS policy on top of
>>it. This will allow to use in the most efficient manner all available
>>WAN bandwidth.
>>

>Perhaps I misunderstand, but for outoing on the WAN interface you can
>attach stuff directly.  For incoming you can use iptables to direct it
>to the IMQ device.

>Are you saying that using iptables on the WAN interface to direct stuff
>to IMQ then causes problems if you use iptables on the wireless
>interface (to direct to frottle)?  I would have thought you have a clear
>partition on when to use each redirection?

>If not, then with some limitations you can of course attach qdiscs to
>the outbound on each of the wireless and wired interfaces.  This makes
>it harder to limit inoming bandwidth, but may be sufficient in some
>circumstances.

>If you have simple incoming requirements you could also look at GRED
>which can be attached to the incoming interface, and has multiple
>queues.  See
>http://www.opalsoft.net/qos/DS-27.htm

>For iptables patches you really want to post to the iptables guys I
>should think?

>Ed W



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Re: [LARTC] Frottle + Bridge + IMQ

[Ed Wildgoose]

>I have compiled IMQ as a module (with NAT patch).
>I have also compiled ip_queue as a module.
>
>Problem is that when imq module is loaded, you can not load the ip_queue
>module and v.v.
>  
>

I'm not sure which "ip_queue" you mean, but on my 2.6 wolk kernel I have 
IMQ compiled and ip_nf_queue (userspace queueing for netfilter).  They 
are not modules and I haven't tested if they actually work, but they are 
loaded...  (I try to avoid modules for stuff that doesn't need it)

Ed W
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RE: [LARTC] Frottle + Bridge + IMQ

[ThE LinuX_KiD]

Hi, Martin.

which is your experience with frottle ?

Which is your external AP ?

Can you post your frottle configure files ?

regards

andres


-> Hi,
-> 
-> I'm trying to configure IMQ to work on the same machine with frottle
-> (http://frottle.sourceforge.net). The problem is both feed themselves
-> packets through netfilter queueing mechanism, but currently there can
-> only be one netfilter queue per protocol family.
-> 
-> To explain why I need IMQ in the first place I have to explain what
-> frottle does. It is a deamon that tweaks the behaviour of a wireless
-> network (overcoming some CSMA/CA traps that reduce performance in
-> certain cases like  hidden-node effect for example). For frottle to be
-> effective it needs to control the outgoing traffic sent to the wireless
-> network device. In my case it is an external AP with ethernet
-> connection.
-> So, my router has 3 NICs - one for WAN access, one for the wireless AP
-> (that is connected to a distant AP, that servers other wired users), and
-> one for users connected through wired LAN.
-> 
-> Currently LAN NICs (the frottle one and the wired LAN) are put in a
-> bridge, which altogether makes the whole LAN a flat one.
-> 
-> Now about IMQ - there are users on the wireless and on the wired LAN
-> that share a common internet connection. To be able to serve them in a
-> predetermined, controlled fashion I want to put all traffic that goes
-> out of eighter LAN NIC into IMQ device and impose QoS policy on top of
-> it. This will allow to use in the most efficient manner all available
-> WAN bandwidth.
-> 
-> Is there any patch for 2.4.x kernel that allows multiple (cascading)
-> queuing ? Is this limitation exists in 2.6 kernel ?
-> 
-> Thanks
-> M. Stavrev
-> 
-> P.S. I know I can easily solve my problems by using two linux boxes -
-> one for frottle and one for the internet shaping, still my question
-> remains, any ideas would be appreciated.
-> 
-> 
-> 
-> _______________________________________________
-> LARTC mailing list / LARTC@mailman.ds9a.nl
-> http://mailman.ds9a.nl/mailman/listinfo/lartc HOWTO: http://lartc.org/
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RE: [LARTC] Frottle + Bridge + IMQ

[Marin Stavrev]

Hi,

I do not have much of experience with frottle, but the project is well
documented and my configuration is almost exact copy of the default one:

This are non-commented lines from my master's /etc/frottle.conf:

mastermode 1
clientmode 1
daemon 1
masterip 10.0.0.249
queuesize 100
hiports 22,53,110,25,80,443
winterface eth0
statsfile /var/www/html/frottle.html
pollparams 60000,10,6000,7,5000,5,4000
infofile /var/www/html/frottle_srv.html


Because behind the master there's a wired LAN segment, it's also acting as
a client to itself. The only difference between master's and clients
configuration is the omition of 'mastermode 1', so clients' .conf:

clientmode 1
daemon 1
masterip 10.0.0.249
queuesize 100
hiports 22,53,110,25,80,443
pollparams 60000,10,6000,7,5000,5,4000


Our wireless network includes 2 LinkSys WAP11 APs (the leaf nodes), and at
the center there's a D-Link DI-614+. The two WAP11 can not here each other
transmitions - it's a classic hidden-node effect. Btw, DI-614+ is quite a
crap, so I'm using PheeNet 3.4.1 firmware on it - see
http://www.muehlenhof-oberursel.de/22001.html for details.

M. Stavrev

>
> Hi, Martin.
>
> which is your experience with frottle ?
>
> Which is your external AP ?
>
> Can you post your frottle configure files ?
>
> regards
>
> andres
>




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