New sensors web site (was Re: 2nd mail archive?)

New sensors web site (was Re: 2nd mail archive?)

[Philip Edelbrock]

Jean Delvare wrote:
>>Does lm_sensors.org sound good? It is not yet taken (sensors.org is).
> 
> 
> Random thoughts:
> 
> As far as I know, underscores are not allowed in domain names, so it
> would more likely be a dash (I never liked that underscore anyway).
> 
> Phil already has the domain lm-sensors.nu, can't we go on using it if we
> decide to accept your joint-forces offer?
> 
> Another approach is that we might not need a domain name for it at all.
> Most project hosting systems have a subdirectory for each project,
> possibly with a subdomain, but not a domain per project, and it looks
> fine to me.
> 
> Thanks,
> --
> Jean Delvare
> 

I like lm-sensors.org (right, no underscores).  We could use that for 
the new site and then point lm-sensors.nu over to it after we get things 
finalized.  I can purchase it for us unless somebody has an idea of how 
to get it for free/ultra-cheap.

I like the idea of a wiki-style edit for web pages (at least only 
accessible for us).

Other things we will want:

- CVS web browse
- Support/ticket system
- Mailing list (and web search)

Anything else?

It probably isn't a bad time to try to roll in a new web design into the 
site.  I think things are rather too large right now (big fonts, big 
graphics, nav on left is a little funky, etc.).


Phil

New sensors web site (was Re: 2nd mail archive?)

[Jean Delvare]

> I like the idea of a wiki-style edit for web pages (at least only
> accessible for us).

If only a limited number of person can access it, I'm not sure it has an
interest to make it a wiki. Also, I wonder how you would create the
drivers tables as we have them now... Sounds a bit too complex to be
made with a wiki.

I am not opposed to the wiki concept, but I am not sure that all the web
site can be done that way. That said I can be convinced (let's just try
and see if we hit the limits or not). If there are more contributors to
the site that way (as opposed to hand-written HTML code under CVS) that
might be worth it, granted.

Also, we would need a place to manage board-specific configuration files.
I know someone started to work on this, don't know how far it went...
We need a place where we can store board-related info in a free but
consistent way (think of MBM's mobo list, more complete if possible).

http://mbm.livewiredev.com/mobolist.html

> Other things we will want:
>
> - CVS web browse

Sure, and if possible something a little bit more user-friendly than what
we had. Being able to download any revision of any file and getting
diffs between revisions are missing at the moment.

We might consider moving from CVS to Subversion. As far as I know it is
possible to convert CVS repositories without loss, and SVN allows things
CVS doesn't (such as renaming/moving files). This would suggest that
all contributors (not that many as far as I can tell) would need to
start using Subversion. Does it sound like a potential problem?

> - Support/ticket system

Again, something more user-friendly than what we have ATM would be
welcome. Original posters need to be able to add info to their ticket,
or the system is next to useless. Bugzilla? Or something else?

> - Mailing list (and web search)

Obviously...

> Anything else?

Nothing that I can think of.

> It probably isn't a bad time to try to roll in a new web design into the
> site.  I think things are rather too large right now (big fonts, big
> graphics, nav on left is a little funky, etc.).

Whatever we do, it has to rely on CSS. No more old-style
netscape-generated crappy html please. I've tried to clean things up
bit by bit in the last year, but redesigning the site from scratch
can't be bad.

Thanks,
--
Jean Delvare

New sensors web site (was Re: 2nd mail archive?)

[Philip Edelbrock]

Jean Delvare wrote:
>>I like the idea of a wiki-style edit for web pages (at least only
>>accessible for us).
> 
> 
> If only a limited number of person can access it, I'm not sure it has an
> interest to make it a wiki. Also, I wonder how you would create the
> drivers tables as we have them now... Sounds a bit too complex to be
> made with a wiki.
> 
> I am not opposed to the wiki concept, but I am not sure that all the web
> site can be done that way. That said I can be convinced (let's just try
> and see if we hit the limits or not). If there are more contributors to
> the site that way (as opposed to hand-written HTML code under CVS) that
> might be worth it, granted.

I'm 100% with you.  Wiki with a hidden edit feature that requires logins 
for a handful of us.  If tables are not easy, then html is fine.  If 
management via ftp or cvs is the way to do it, then that's fine too.

PS- A plus for CVS-style management is that it makes mirroring very easy.

>>- CVS web browse
> 
> 
> Sure, and if possible something a little bit more user-friendly than what
> we had. Being able to download any revision of any file and getting
> diffs between revisions are missing at the moment.
> 

I like things that allow for quick selection of revs, forks, and 
releases.  And, then lets you download everything in a tarball.  The 
current CVSweb does this:

http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/projects/cvsweb/

But, I think there was something a little slicker out there that I used 
at one point, but I forgot what it was and can't find an example of it 
right now...

> We might consider moving from CVS to Subversion. As far as I know it is
> possible to convert CVS repositories without loss, and SVN allows things
> CVS doesn't (such as renaming/moving files). This would suggest that
> all contributors (not that many as far as I can tell) would need to
> start using Subversion. Does it sound like a potential problem?
> 

Subversion is just something I threw out there as an option.  I've only 
just used subversion lately and not extensively.  It claims to have 
solved many of the problems that CVS is plauged with, but isn't as well 
supported by 3rd party apps (IDEs, web interfaces, etc.).  It seems to 
work very similarly to cvs on the command line, afaik.

> 
>>- Support/ticket system
> 
> 
> Again, something more user-friendly than what we have ATM would be
> welcome. Original posters need to be able to add info to their ticket,
> or the system is next to useless. Bugzilla? Or something else?
> 

Yeah, I'd suggest something simple to use.  I've always found Bugzilla 
to be a bit overly confusing and complex for anything but huge projects 
(like Mozilla).  Searching in it is especially cumbersome, I think.

> 
> 
> Whatever we do, it has to rely on CSS. No more old-style
> netscape-generated crappy html please. I've tried to clean things up
> bit by bit in the last year, but redesigning the site from scratch
> can't be bad.
> 

Lol, yeah.  I agree.  Simple, simple, HTML, with a CSS client-side 
include which sets the style of the site.  I enjoy the look of sites 
like Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org). (This might be influencing my 
bias for a wiki site, now that I think about it. :')


Phil

New sensors web site (was Re: 2nd mail archive?)

[Jean Delvare]

> > Sure, and if possible something a little bit more user-friendly than what
> > we had. Being able to download any revision of any file and getting
> > diffs between revisions are missing at the moment.
>
> I like things that allow for quick selection of revs, forks, and
> releases.  And, then lets you download everything in a tarball.  The
> current CVSweb does this:
>
> http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/projects/cvsweb/
>
> But, I think there was something a little slicker out there that I used
> at one point, but I forgot what it was and can't find an example of it
> right now...

Viewcvs?

(e.g. http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/)

Seems to support Subversion as well.

> > >- Support/ticket system
> >
> > Again, something more user-friendly than what we have ATM would be
> > welcome. Original posters need to be able to add info to their ticket,
> > or the system is next to useless. Bugzilla? Or something else?
> >
>
> Yeah, I'd suggest something simple to use.  I've always found Bugzilla
> to be a bit overly confusing and complex for anything but huge projects
> (like Mozilla).  Searching in it is especially cumbersome, I think.

That's true but OTOH people are used to bugzilla because several major
projects use it (linux kernel, mozilla, xmms and more). I think it can
be configured and maybe the overkill features can be disabled in our
case. It's certainly worth giving it a try. If someone can think of
something as efficient but lighter, I'm listening.

Oh, I would consider it a GREAT benefit if it were possible to import our
existing 2500 tickets in the new support system and keep the numbering
intact.

Thanks,
--
Jean Delvare

New sensors web site (was Re: 2nd mail archive?)

[Axel Thimm]

OK, I can arrange for lm-sensors.org with

o Web
o Mailman
o Wiki (which one?)
o CVS/subversion with viewcvs (and cvsgraph for cvs)
o Bugzilla

Migration of the list: Who has a complete archive? A modern approach
in naming/segmenting lists would be lm-sensors-users@lm-sensors.org
and lm-sensors-devel@lm-sensors.org. Is that in order?

Migration CVS to subversion would be quite easy (I need a copy of the
CVS repo). It is mainly up to the current developers, whether they'd
like to change the versioning system.

Migration of the ticket system to Bugzilla may be more
cumbersome. Someone with good bugzilla database knowledge would have
to check the current ticketing system and migrate it.

First one would have to decide on product/components schemes for
bugzilla. I believe that it will boil down to
products={lm_sensors,i2c} and components (for lm_sensors) being the
busses/chips.

Who wants to become
o list admin
o bugzilla admin
o wiki admin

Phil, I'm sure some of these tasks are reserved for you :)
-- 
Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net
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New sensors web site (was Re: 2nd mail archive?)

[Philip Edelbrock]

Jean Delvare wrote:
> [...]
> 
> Viewcvs?
> 
> (e.g. http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/)
> 
> Seems to support Subversion as well.
> 

That's another option, although I couldn't see how to download tarballs. 
(not critical)

>[...]Searching in it is especially cumbersome, I think.
> 
> 
> That's true but OTOH people are used to bugzilla because several major
> projects use it (linux kernel, mozilla, xmms and more). I think it can
> be configured and maybe the overkill features can be disabled in our
> case. It's certainly worth giving it a try. If someone can think of
> something as efficient but lighter, I'm listening.
> 

I'm not opposed to bugzilla if it is the best option.  Especially if we 
can start with a simplified version and grow into it's more advanced 
features.

Lots of interesting options on Freshmeat, but of course most solutions 
are somebody's half-baked weekend project written over a weekend in Ada 
for their Amiga. ;')

http://freshmeat.net/browse/846/

But, take a look at this:

http://www.edgewall.com/trac/screenshots.html

It happens to cover most of the things we were discussing, and a few 
more we hadn't thought of (like project time line, changeset summary, 
etc.)  A few shortfalls, but might be adaptable... just kicking around 
some thoughts.

> Oh, I would consider it a GREAT benefit if it were possible to import our
> existing 2500 tickets in the new support system and keep the numbering
> intact.
> 

Yes!  If the new system uses a SQL backend (like my favorite 
PostgreSQL), then it shouldn't be too bad to figure out how to import 
all the existing tickets in.


Phil

New sensors web site (was Re: 2nd mail archive?)

[Philip Edelbrock]

(I think I'm answering mails out of order)

Axel Thimm wrote:
> OK, I can arrange for lm-sensors.org with
> 
> o Web
> o Mailman
> o Wiki (which one?)
> o CVS/subversion with viewcvs (and cvsgraph for cvs)
> o Bugzilla

That's certainly a great solution set to start with.

BTW- I'm assuming I can get some shell access to play with support 
scripts, database stuff, and such as needed?

> 
> Migration of the list: Who has a complete archive? A modern approach
> in naming/segmenting lists would be lm-sensors-users@lm-sensors.org
> and lm-sensors-devel@lm-sensors.org. Is that in order?

We talked about splitting the list out not too long in the past, but it 
was decided then that we didn't have enough traffic to really make it 
benefitial.  I don't know if everyone is still thinking that this is 
true, though.

> 
> Migration CVS to subversion would be quite easy (I need a copy of the
> CVS repo). It is mainly up to the current developers, whether they'd
> like to change the versioning system.

OK.  I can provide you with tarballs directly from the CVS server, as 
you need them.

> 
> Migration of the ticket system to Bugzilla may be more
> cumbersome. Someone with good bugzilla database knowledge would have
> to check the current ticketing system and migrate it.
> 

I can definitely help tackle this.  I spend a lot of time at my job 
pushing data between database backends and such.

> [...]
> Who wants to become
> o list admin
> o bugzilla admin
> o wiki admin
> 
> Phil, I'm sure some of these tasks are reserved for you :)

Sigh... yeah. :')

I'm not sure yet if everyone is sold on the solution set yet.  It's an 
important change that I'd like to make sure everyone is comfortable with 
before we invest too much time on.


Phil

New sensors web site (was Re: 2nd mail archive?)

[Jean Delvare]

> We talked about splitting the list out not too long in the past, but
> it was decided then that we didn't have enough traffic to really make
> it benefitial.  I don't know if everyone is still thinking that this
> is true, though.

True, but back then, subscription was handled manually, and the list was
open to all winds. With a real, automated system things would certainly
be different. We might consider having a subscriber-only list for us
developers, and something different for user support (totally opened, or
moderated... not sure).

I believe that more usual mailing-list and tracker configurations will
let the number of reports and - hopefully - the number of contributors
and new developers to the project, increase. I'm almost certain that
some people would give up with our current setup because they wouldn't
want to ask for a manual subscription "just in case".

> I'm not sure yet if everyone is sold on the solution set yet.  It's
> an important change that I'd like to make sure everyone is comfortable
> with before we invest too much time on.

I'm fine with virtually anything that improves the current situation. I
don't have enough experience with different bug trackers, mailing-lists
etc. to really emit an enlightened opinion. Let's try things and see how
it goes! :)

-- 
Jean Delvare
http://khali.linux-fr.org/

New sensors web site (was Re: 2nd mail archive?)

[Philip Edelbrock]

An important one we forgot: Spambayes or Spamassassin (or something 
equivelent)

I haven't seen any nore discussion on this topic.  Anyone else want to 
chime in?  (MDS?)

If not, then I think we're good to go Axel.


Phil

Axel Thimm wrote:
> OK, I can arrange for lm-sensors.org with
> 
> o Web
> o Mailman
> o Wiki (which one?)
> o CVS/subversion with viewcvs (and cvsgraph for cvs)
> o Bugzilla
> 

New sensors web site (was Re: 2nd mail archive?)

[Axel Thimm]

On Fri, Dec 17, 2004 at 12:05:18PM -0800, Philip Edelbrock wrote:
> An important one we forgot: Spambayes or Spamassassin (or something 
> equivelent)

I have spamassassin/razor/pyzor/DCC and clamav on the mail system in
question :)

> I haven't seen any nore discussion on this topic.  Anyone else want to 
> chime in?  (MDS?)
> 
> If not, then I think we're good to go Axel.
> 
> 
> Phil
> 
> Axel Thimm wrote:
> >OK, I can arrange for lm-sensors.org with
> >
> >o Web
> >o Mailman
> >o Wiki (which one?)
> >o CVS/subversion with viewcvs (and cvsgraph for cvs)
> >o Bugzilla
> >

-- 
Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net
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New sensors web site (was Re: 2nd mail archive?)

[Philip Edelbrock]

Axel Thimm wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 17, 2004 at 12:05:18PM -0800, Philip Edelbrock wrote:
> 
>>An important one we forgot: Spambayes or Spamassassin (or something 
>>equivelent)
> 
> 
> I have spamassassin/razor/pyzor/DCC and clamav on the mail system in
> question :)
> 
> 

That'll work. :')  What IP should I have *.lm-sensors.org point to?


Phil