AX.25 for dummies

AX.25 for dummies

[Chris Hare, W5CDN]

 
I am looking for some really good instructions on how to set up AX.25,
configure it and test it as working.  I have found some docs on the net, but
they are old (pre 2003) and not terribly clear.  I am a reasonably good
linux guy, but I haven't done AX.25 work on linux before.  I have compiled
the modules into the kernel and it boots.
 
Right now the TNCs are NOT in KISS mode until I figure out how to make this
work and test it. 
 
Any pointers or links would be good
thanks
 
Chris
W5CDN

Re: AX.25 for dummies

[Curt, WE7U]

On Sun, 19 Feb 2006, Chris Hare, W5CDN wrote:

> I am looking for some really good instructions on how to set up AX.25,
> configure it and test it as working.  I have found some docs on the net, but
> they are old (pre 2003) and not terribly clear.  I am a reasonably good
> linux guy, but I haven't done AX.25 work on linux before.  I have compiled
> the modules into the kernel and it boots.
>
> Right now the TNCs are NOT in KISS mode until I figure out how to make this
> work and test it.
>
> Any pointers or links would be good

The AX.25 HOWTO has been forever out-of-date.  That's pretty much
the best document to work from though.  I think it's only a few
tweaks from there to get things running.

Your best bet would be to read that document and then latch on to
someone with a working system to ask questions of.

This group should probably set up a Wiki so that the instructions
for AX.25 can be kept up to date by the entire community instead of
by one or a very few.  That would probably help.

One thing to be aware of is that the AX.25 modules must match
certain kernel versions, plus some kernel versions have problems
running AX.25.  There are often patches that go across this list for
the latest kernels.

--
Curt, WE7U.   APRS Client Comparisons: http://www.eskimo.com/~archer
"Lotto:    A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown
"Windows:  Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates." -- WE7U
"The world DOES revolve around me:  I picked the coordinate system!"

Re: AX.25 for dummies

[Jeremy Utley]

On 2/21/06, Curt, WE7U <archer@eskimo.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 19 Feb 2006, Chris Hare, W5CDN wrote:
>
> > I am looking for some really good instructions on how to set up AX.25,
> > configure it and test it as working.  I have found some docs on the net, but
> > they are old (pre 2003) and not terribly clear.  I am a reasonably good
> > linux guy, but I haven't done AX.25 work on linux before.  I have compiled
> > the modules into the kernel and it boots.
> >
> > Right now the TNCs are NOT in KISS mode until I figure out how to make this
> > work and test it.
> >
> > Any pointers or links would be good
>
> The AX.25 HOWTO has been forever out-of-date.  That's pretty much
> the best document to work from though.  I think it's only a few
> tweaks from there to get things running.

While it is true that the AX.25 HOWTO has not been updated in many
many years, the process for setting up AX.25 interfaces really hasn't
changed much since the 2.2.x kernel series, so those same basic
instructions will work on the latest 2.6.15 kernel as did a 2.2.10 :) 
There can sometimes be a couple of gotchas related to
multiple-interface TNC's, the use of mkiss, and modern linux
distributions which use udev, but those are easy to work around as
well.  Best thing you can do is work thru the howto, and come to the
list here to ask questions - someone will gladly help you out.

Jeremy, NW7JU

RE: AX.25 for dummies

[Jack Sterba]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: linux-hams-owner@vger.kernel.org [mailto:linux-hams-
> owner@vger.kernel.org] On Behalf Of Jeremy Utley
> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 12:28 PM
> To: linux-hams@vger.kernel.org
> Subject: Re: AX.25 for dummies

* SNIP *

> While it is true that the AX.25 HOWTO has not been updated in many
> many years, the process for setting up AX.25 interfaces really hasn't
> changed much since the 2.2.x kernel series, so those same basic
> instructions will work on the latest 2.6.15 kernel as did a 2.2.10 :)
> There can sometimes be a couple of gotchas related to
> multiple-interface TNC's, the use of mkiss, and modern linux
> distributions which use udev, but those are easy to work around as
> well.  Best thing you can do is work thru the howto, and come to the
> list here to ask questions - someone will gladly help you out.
> 

Yes, there are some little quirks with KPC9612's that we fought with to get
the Orlando FPAC switch working. If needed, I can gladly post the
appropriate ax25 config files so that you can save yourself some time and
trouble. Just make sure that your ax25-tools and -apps (0.0.8) and libax25
(0.0.11) are up to date and it should be pretty easy. BTW, feel free to
correct me on the versions if I am wrong. Just out of curiosity, what
distribution of linux are you using?

Jack KB9LEB

RE: AX.25 for dummies

[Chris Hare, W5CDN]

I am using RedHat Enterprise Release 4.  I have two TNCs, one KPC-3 and one
KPC-3+.  My frustration was around trying to understand all the config files
etc and the relationships between them.  I am moving my home APRS station to
xastir, which the manual says must use AX.25 and the winlink NTS station to
FBBS.  Both of the windows apps didn't need KISS mode, so this has be just a
little frustrated.  :-) (I think it is a case of complexity where none is
required, but that is just my opinion.  :-) 

-----Original Message-----
From: linux-hams-owner@vger.kernel.org
[mailto:linux-hams-owner@vger.kernel.org] On Behalf Of Jack Sterba
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 12:07 PM
To: Linux-Hams
Subject: RE: AX.25 for dummies


> -----Original Message-----
> From: linux-hams-owner@vger.kernel.org [mailto:linux-hams- 
> owner@vger.kernel.org] On Behalf Of Jeremy Utley
> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 12:28 PM
> To: linux-hams@vger.kernel.org
> Subject: Re: AX.25 for dummies

* SNIP *

> While it is true that the AX.25 HOWTO has not been updated in many 
> many years, the process for setting up AX.25 interfaces really hasn't 
> changed much since the 2.2.x kernel series, so those same basic 
> instructions will work on the latest 2.6.15 kernel as did a 2.2.10 :) 
> There can sometimes be a couple of gotchas related to 
> multiple-interface TNC's, the use of mkiss, and modern linux 
> distributions which use udev, but those are easy to work around as 
> well.  Best thing you can do is work thru the howto, and come to the 
> list here to ask questions - someone will gladly help you out.
> 

Yes, there are some little quirks with KPC9612's that we fought with to get
the Orlando FPAC switch working. If needed, I can gladly post the
appropriate ax25 config files so that you can save yourself some time and
trouble. Just make sure that your ax25-tools and -apps (0.0.8) and libax25
(0.0.11) are up to date and it should be pretty easy. BTW, feel free to
correct me on the versions if I am wrong. Just out of curiosity, what
distribution of linux are you using?

Jack KB9LEB

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RE: AX.25 for dummies

[Curt Mills]

On Tue, 21 Feb 2006, Chris Hare, W5CDN wrote:

> I am using RedHat Enterprise Release 4.  I have two TNCs, one KPC-3 and one
> KPC-3+.  My frustration was around trying to understand all the config files
> etc and the relationships between them.  I am moving my home APRS station to
> xastir, which the manual says must use AX.25

Nope!  If you don't believe me, ask one of the Xastir developers...
Ok, I still say nope!  ;-)

Xastir can use a variety of interfaces to accomplish the goal.  I
personally have used KISS TNC's via AX.25 kernel interfaces,
soundcard via serial KISS interface, serial TNC via serial TNC
interface, and am currently using a TNC-X (KISS TNC) via a serial
KISS TNC interface in Xastir.

I highly recommend KISS for the TNC, but if you're not needing to
share the TNC across multiple applications at the same time, use
Xastir's Serial KISS TNC interface.

-- 
Curt, WE7U.				archer at eskimo dot com
http://www.eskimo.com/~archer
  Lotto:  A tax on people who are bad at math. - unknown
Windows:  Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates. - WE7U.
The world DOES revolve around me:  I picked the coordinate system!"

Re: AX.25 for dummies

[Jeremy Utley]

On 2/21/06, Jack Sterba <jack@collective.homelinux.net> wrote:

>
> Yes, there are some little quirks with KPC9612's that we fought with to get
> the Orlando FPAC switch working. If needed, I can gladly post the
> appropriate ax25 config files so that you can save yourself some time and
> trouble. Just make sure that your ax25-tools and -apps (0.0.8) and libax25
> (0.0.11) are up to date and it should be pretty easy. BTW, feel free to
> correct me on the versions if I am wrong. Just out of curiosity, what
> distribution of linux are you using?
>
> Jack KB9LEB

Hey Jack -

I've set up AX.25 on Gentoo, Ubuntu Hoary, Slackware, Fedora, Debian,
and LinuxFromScratch systems.  I've set up a regular KAM with both
interfaces (HF and VHF), as well as an older AEA PK-232 with success. 
By far, I think the distro that's the easiest to set up for AX.25 is
Slackware, because you don't fight package managers or odd bootscripts
in getting it working.

I'm surprised the 9612's would give you difficulty, as I thought
setting up both interfaces for them would be just like setting up both
interfaces for the Kam (using BSD PTY's to reference the interfaces
via mkiss).  Now, I do know that SOME distributions which use udev for
device creation will have an older udev that doesn't correctly create
the BSD PTY devices - I had this problem at one time, and I simply
created those device nodes prior to configuring the interfaces via a
mknod command - the commands I used will be in the archives of the
linux-hams list.

Jeremy, NW7JU

RE: AX.25 for dummies

[Jack Sterba]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeremy Utley [mailto:jerutley@gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 2:24 PM
> To: Jack Sterba
> Cc: Linux-Hams
> Subject: Re: AX.25 for dummies
> 
> On 2/21/06, Jack Sterba <jack@collective.homelinux.net> wrote:
> 
> >
> > Yes, there are some little quirks with KPC9612's that we fought with to
> get
> > the Orlando FPAC switch working. If needed, I can gladly post the
> > appropriate ax25 config files so that you can save yourself some time
> and
> > trouble. Just make sure that your ax25-tools and -apps (0.0.8) and
> libax25
> > (0.0.11) are up to date and it should be pretty easy. BTW, feel free to
> > correct me on the versions if I am wrong. Just out of curiosity, what
> > distribution of linux are you using?
> >
> > Jack KB9LEB
> 
> Hey Jack -
> 
> I've set up AX.25 on Gentoo, Ubuntu Hoary, Slackware, Fedora, Debian,
> and LinuxFromScratch systems.  I've set up a regular KAM with both
> interfaces (HF and VHF), as well as an older AEA PK-232 with success.
> By far, I think the distro that's the easiest to set up for AX.25 is
> Slackware, because you don't fight package managers or odd bootscripts
> in getting it working.
> 
> I'm surprised the 9612's would give you difficulty, as I thought
> setting up both interfaces for them would be just like setting up both
> interfaces for the Kam (using BSD PTY's to reference the interfaces
> via mkiss).  Now, I do know that SOME distributions which use udev for
> device creation will have an older udev that doesn't correctly create
> the BSD PTY devices - I had this problem at one time, and I simply
> created those device nodes prior to configuring the interfaces via a
> mknod command - the commands I used will be in the archives of the
> linux-hams list.
> 
> Jeremy, NW7JU

We actually used a version of knoppix (3.7 I believe). For us it was just a
matter of getting the correct sequence of commands with the correct
parameters. Searching the web turned up just about every possible
combination. The other problem that we had was with the lock files created
for the tty devices weren't being cleared out on shutdown so when the system
came back up, it couldn't get a lock on the serial ports. It just took some
old fashioned messin' around and we got it.

Jack KB9LEB

Net2kiss - multiple ports

[Bill Vodall WA7NWP]

Has anybody looked at tweaking net2kiss to handle multiple net streams? 
  This would be the reverse of mkiss...   I have two ax25 ports.  APRS 
and EOC.  It would be neat to be able able to merge them on to a single 
KISS stream with different KISS channel id's -- like the KISS output of 
a dual port TNC such as a KAM or 9612.

Instead of:

   /usr/sbin/net2kiss -i ax1 /dev/ptyp8

We'd do something like:

   /usr/sbin/net2kiss -i ax1 -i ax0 /dev/ptyp8


There's always some way to make a good tool better...

73
Bill - WA7NWP

Re: Net2kiss - multiple ports

[Richard Adams]

On Tuesday 21 February 2006 19:22, Bill Vodall WA7NWP wrote:
> Has anybody looked at tweaking net2kiss to handle multiple net streams?
>   This would be the reverse of mkiss...   I have two ax25 ports.  APRS
> and EOC.  It would be neat to be able able to merge them on to a single
> KISS stream with different KISS channel id's -- like the KISS output of
> a dual port TNC such as a KAM or 9612.
>
> Instead of:
>
>    /usr/sbin/net2kiss -i ax1 /dev/ptyp8
>
> We'd do something like:
>
>    /usr/sbin/net2kiss -i ax1 -i ax0 /dev/ptyp8
>
>
> There's always some way to make a good tool better...

Its been a long tine since i used ax25 but would kissnetd not help you 
here.???


> 73
> Bill - WA7NWP


Regards Richard.

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Re: Net2kiss - multiple ports

[Bill Vodall]

> > Has anybody looked at tweaking net2kiss to handle multiple net streams?
> >   This would be the reverse of mkiss...   I have two ax25 ports.  APRS
> > and EOC.  It would be neat to be able able to merge them on to a single
> > KISS stream with different KISS channel id's -- like the KISS output of
> > a dual port TNC such as a KAM or 9612.
> >
> 
> Its been a long tine since i used ax25 but would kissnetd not help you 
> here.???


It looks like that's close.  I'm guessing it would be an every packet
to every interface setup.  If kissnetd was used on two or more AXn ports,
wouldn't everything heard on one be sent out the others?   Also it
doesn't appear to deal with the KISS stream numbers (0..7)

Thanks,
Bill - WA7NWP

Installing ham packages

[Bill Vodall WA7NWP]

Ok ---  where do they go.

  conversd goes in /opt/converd/(etc|bin...)

  aprsd

  jnos

  digi_ned

etc?

The AX25 packages and tools config setup goes in /etc/ax25.  I like that 
because it makes it easy to backup everything.  Copy /etc and the fruit 
of the endless configuration battle is saved.  Hunting down packages and 
info from /opt, /usr/local, etc is a pain.

What's the gospel these days?  Where should we be installing the ham 
packages and putting their configuration files?

Thanks,
Bill

Re: Installing ham packages

[Hamish Moffatt]

On Wed, Feb 22, 2006 at 10:55:14PM -0800, Bill Vodall WA7NWP wrote:
> Ok ---  where do they go.
> 
>  conversd goes in /opt/converd/(etc|bin...)
>  aprsd
>  jnos
>  digi_ned
> 
> etc?
[...]
> What's the gospel these days?  Where should we be installing the ham 
> packages and putting their configuration files?

You, as the system admin, are encouraged to install into /usr/local.

/usr is reserved for your distribution to use.
/opt is reserved for third party packages (although your distribution
might use them too). Or you could use it.

/usr/local is definitely reserved for you to install things directly
from source code.


Hamish
-- 
Hamish Moffatt VK3SB <hamish@debian.org> <hamish@cloud.net.au>

Re: Installing ham packages

[Bill Vodall]

On Fri, 24 Feb 2006, Hamish Moffatt wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 22, 2006 at 10:55:14PM -0800, Bill Vodall WA7NWP wrote:
> > Ok ---  where do they go.
> > 
> >  conversd goes in /opt/converd/(etc|bin...)
> > 
> > etc?
> [...]
> 
> You, as the system admin, are encouraged to install into /usr/local.
> 
> /usr is reserved for your distribution to use.
> /opt is reserved for third party packages (although your distribution
> might use them too). Or you could use it.
> 
> /usr/local is definitely reserved for you to install things directly
> from source code.

Slowly the light comes through.   This makes sense.  On my own systems
I'd put a package, for example - conversd, in /usr/local/*.   On the
"community Internet packet servers" around the region where I help
out with packet stuff -- then it would be good to use /opt since that
separates what I'm doing from local sys-admin.   Might even make sense
to have a /opt/RADIO (or similar) for these packages..


Thanks Hamish and everybody for your replies.

Bill - WA7NWP

LinuxNode (2)

[Luigi - IK5ZUK]

Hello the list !

I'm playing around LinuxNode (ver. 0.3.2) again, and now when I do the
R(oute) command, I obtain the following error message:
"do_nodes: read_proc_nr_nodes: No such file or directory"
If I do the N(odes) command, I obtain the following error message:
"do_nodes: read_proc_nr_nodes: No such file or directory"

My LinuxNode is running alone on my system, i.e. it is not linked to any
other LinuxNode...

So, I have another question: what I can do to link my linuxnode to another
linuxnode via internet ??
How can I make a new link to another similar system ??

Is there a sysop manual for the LinuxNode's administration ??

Hoping someone can help me....

73's and TKS
Luigi - IK5ZUK

Re: LinuxNode (2)

[Brett Mueller]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi Luigi,

On 2/23/2006 07:39, Luigi - IK5ZUK wrote:
> I'm playing around LinuxNode (ver. 0.3.2) again, and now when I do
> the R(oute) command, I obtain the following error message: "do_nodes:
> read_proc_nr_nodes: No such file or directory" If I do the N(odes)
> command, I obtain the following error message: "do_nodes:
> read_proc_nr_nodes: No such file or directory"

Do you have AX25 and NETROM support compiled into the kernel?  The error
message you describe is that the system is unable to find
/proc/net/nr_nodes.  This will not exist if the kernel has not been
compiled to handle AX.25 and netrom.

> So, I have another question: what I can do to link my linuxnode to 
> another linuxnode via internet ??

Use ax25ipd.  For something to look over, see N8UR's
  http://www.febo.com/packet/linux-ax25/ax25ipd-config.html
John has many other helpful Linux AX.25 pages on this site, even if
somewhat dated.

Perhaps someone else can answer the other questions, or correct any
unintended misinformation here...

73 and good luck!

Brett, WA7V

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Re: Installing ham packages

[Curt Mills]

On Wed, 22 Feb 2006, Bill Vodall WA7NWP wrote:

> The AX25 packages and tools config setup goes in /etc/ax25.  I like that
> because it makes it easy to backup everything.  Copy /etc and the fruit of the
> endless configuration battle is saved.  Hunting down packages and info from
> /opt, /usr/local, etc is a pain.
> 
> What's the gospel these days?  Where should we be installing the ham packages
> and putting their configuration files?

You might want to check out the Linux Standard Base.  They install
things in /opt, and the config files and such for each package go
into that area as well.  If you comply with their directory
structure it'll make it easier to port the application to LSB later
on.  The biggest trick with LSB is getting the application compiled
against only the LSB libraries, statically compiling in any other
libraries that aren't part of LSB.

-- 
Curt, WE7U.				archer at eskimo dot com
http://www.eskimo.com/~archer
  Lotto:  A tax on people who are bad at math. - unknown
Windows:  Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates. - WE7U.
The world DOES revolve around me:  I picked the coordinate system!"

Serial extenion cable...

[Bill]

Sorry to bug folks again if I brought this up last summer, but the need 
for an "serial tunnel" has again come up.

I have AX25 and TNC's running on one computer.  I have applications and 
want to do testing on another computer.   They're a couple miles apart. 
  I'd like to attach the output of net2kiss (a pseudo tty) on one side 
and present another pseudo tty on the other system for the applications. 
  Probably wouldn't be too hard even with PERL but before I get 
distracted, does anybody have any leads.  I found some ser2net tools but 
they seem to be a scheme for presenting a tcp interface to a serial port 
-- just half of what I'm looking for.

Thanks again!!
Bill - WA7NWP

Re: Serial extenion cable...

[Curt, WE7U]

On Wed, 8 Mar 2006, Bill wrote:

> Sorry to bug folks again if I brought this up last summer, but the need
> for an "serial tunnel" has again come up.
>
> I have AX25 and TNC's running on one computer.  I have applications and
> want to do testing on another computer.   They're a couple miles apart.
>   I'd like to attach the output of net2kiss (a pseudo tty) on one side
> and present another pseudo tty on the other system for the applications.
>   Probably wouldn't be too hard even with PERL but before I get
> distracted, does anybody have any leads.  I found some ser2net tools but
> they seem to be a scheme for presenting a tcp interface to a serial port
> -- just half of what I'm looking for.

Answered in Xastir FAQ, question 4.20.  "netcat" is probably your
best bet.

--
Curt, WE7U.   APRS Client Comparisons: http://www.eskimo.com/~archer
"Lotto:    A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown
"Windows:  Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates." -- WE7U
"The world DOES revolve around me:  I picked the coordinate system!"

Re: Serial extenion cable...

[Braddock]

> On Wed, 8 Mar 2006, Bill wrote:
> > Sorry to bug folks again if I brought this up last summer, but the need
> > for an "serial tunnel" has again come up.

B&B Electroncis (among others) have serial-to-IP hardware servers that
you could also use, but they cost a couple hundred bucks.  I've used
them in the past for clients, and they are probably more robust than a
netcat tunnel (they can preserve handshakes and signaling, etc).

http://www.bb-elec.com/product_family.asp?FamilyId=2&TrailType=Sub&Trail=1

	-braddock

Re: Serial extenion cable...

[Curt, WE7U]

On Thu, 9 Mar 2006, Braddock wrote:

> B&B Electroncis (among others) have serial-to-IP hardware servers that
> you could also use, but they cost a couple hundred bucks.

Then there's the XPort device, which is a Linux computer inside a
long RJ-45 shell.  It's basically a 1-port terminal server and costs
around $50.  I have one here on my desk on a development board we
made.  With one of those, a simple reset circuit, and a MAX-232,
you're in business.

--
Curt, WE7U.   APRS Client Comparisons: http://www.eskimo.com/~archer
"Lotto:    A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown
"Windows:  Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates." -- WE7U
"The world DOES revolve around me:  I picked the coordinate system!"

Re: Serial extenion cable...

[Bill Vodall WA7NWP]

Curt, WE7U wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Mar 2006, Bill wrote:
> 
> 
>>Sorry to bug folks again if I brought this up last summer, but the need
>>for an "serial tunnel" has again come up.
>>
> Answered in Xastir FAQ, question 4.20.  "netcat" is probably your
> best bet.

Faq is at: 
<http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/xastir/xastir/FAQ?&view=auto>

Netcat puts a serial or parallel port on an IP channel.  Useful but not 
what I needed.  'remserial' from the Xastir faq was the solution and 
it's working.

   http://lpccomp.bc.ca/remserial/

Here's a packet from the remote YYDIGI Linux box as heard on the 
'listen' screen of my miniItx.

---
axyy: fm KB7UVC-3 to APW251 via OLY* KOPEAK* WIDE2 ctl UIv id=F0(Text) 
len 37 08:51:11
0000  Mason County WA EOC Computer On-LineM
---

More notes on the wiki:

   http://wiki.ampr2.net/jnos/RemoteSerial

Thanks for the bandwidth.  Always good to start a day with a step forward.

73
Bill - WA7NWP

Re: Serial extenion cable - now CONVAPRS

[Bill Vodall]

On Wed, 8 Mar 2006, Bill wrote:

> 
> for an "serial tunnel" has again come up.
> 

It looks like the serial tunnels are going to work.  This is
going to really open up the network around here now that we can
interlink linux boxes and RF ports.  Far out!  (Best of all,
it's more ammo to 'blame' Curt - after all, he pointed me
at the write up in Xastir...)

Time to move on to the next project..  (Next - singular?  Hah!
The list of projects is in the hundreds and growing daily...)

Anyway, thanks to the AXCONV tool and ease of setting up CONVERS
nodes, use is growing here.  Now to add the next twist and
connect it to APRS chat.  The idea is that CONVERS port 9800, for
example, would be broadcast locally as an APRS message group.
Likewise, messages to the message group on RF would be sent
to that channel on the CONVERS system.  So the question
at hand is - does anyone here have or know of any existing
scripts or 'bots' for the CONVERS system to use as a
building block starting place for this CONVAPRS project?

Thanks again!
Bill - WA7NWP