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From: Anthony Liguori <aliguori@us.ibm.com>
To: Keir Fraser <Keir.Fraser@cl.cam.ac.uk>
Cc: virtualization@lists.osdl.org,
	Ian Pratt <ian.pratt@xensource.com>,
	xen-devel@lists.xensource.com, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	Chris Wright <chrisw@sous-sol.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 29/35] Add the Xen virtual console driver.
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 10:14:54 -0600	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <442177FE.4030300@us.ibm.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <048b633179d2ecffd95c58eada4313fc@cl.cam.ac.uk>

Keir Fraser wrote:
>
> On 22 Mar 2006, at 16:00, Anthony Liguori wrote:
>
>> This has always seemed a bit wrong to me and makes a number of things 
>> kind of awkward (like a virtual video driver).
>>
>> It would seem better me to treat this driver as what it really is, a 
>> virtual serial device.  It adds a little bit of additional work to 
>> the userspace tools (they just have to make sure to pass 
>> console=ttyS0) but it seems worth it.
>
> That already works pretty much (userspace tools have to pass 
> xencons=ttyS as well as console=ttyS0).
>> We could also solve the tty[0-9] problem by implementing a proper 
>> console driver that could use multiple virtual serial devices if we 
>> wanted to go that route.
>
> Yes, that could live alongside this driver.

This is going to come up in the next release if we try to merge the 
framebuffer stuff.

>> Another option would be to just emulate a serial driver.  The console 
>> driver isn't really performance critical.  It seems to me that it's a 
>> bit unnecessary to even bother paravirtualizing the console device 
>> when it's so easy to emulate.
>
> Easy except that Xen can't implement the 'console backend', or at 
> least not easily. The console bits need to end up in management 
> virtual machine's user space. We'd have to do something skanky like 
> the current HVM qemu model.

We could make an exception for console devices and just have a small 
buffer in the hypervisor for console input/output (similar to the 
emergency console).  The biggest advantage to doing this IMHO is that it 
makes guest OS's a bit easier to port.  The console already is treated 
as an exception since it is setup in start_info (instead of through 
XenBus) so this is not that awful I think.

Regards,

Anthony Liguori

>  -- Keir
>


WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Anthony Liguori <aliguori@us.ibm.com>
To: Keir Fraser <Keir.Fraser@cl.cam.ac.uk>
Cc: Chris Wright <chrisw@sous-sol.org>,
	virtualization@lists.osdl.org, xen-devel@lists.xensource.com,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Ian Pratt <ian.pratt@xensource.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 29/35] Add the Xen virtual console driver.
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 10:14:54 -0600	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <442177FE.4030300@us.ibm.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <048b633179d2ecffd95c58eada4313fc@cl.cam.ac.uk>

Keir Fraser wrote:
>
> On 22 Mar 2006, at 16:00, Anthony Liguori wrote:
>
>> This has always seemed a bit wrong to me and makes a number of things 
>> kind of awkward (like a virtual video driver).
>>
>> It would seem better me to treat this driver as what it really is, a 
>> virtual serial device.  It adds a little bit of additional work to 
>> the userspace tools (they just have to make sure to pass 
>> console=ttyS0) but it seems worth it.
>
> That already works pretty much (userspace tools have to pass 
> xencons=ttyS as well as console=ttyS0).
>> We could also solve the tty[0-9] problem by implementing a proper 
>> console driver that could use multiple virtual serial devices if we 
>> wanted to go that route.
>
> Yes, that could live alongside this driver.

This is going to come up in the next release if we try to merge the 
framebuffer stuff.

>> Another option would be to just emulate a serial driver.  The console 
>> driver isn't really performance critical.  It seems to me that it's a 
>> bit unnecessary to even bother paravirtualizing the console device 
>> when it's so easy to emulate.
>
> Easy except that Xen can't implement the 'console backend', or at 
> least not easily. The console bits need to end up in management 
> virtual machine's user space. We'd have to do something skanky like 
> the current HVM qemu model.

We could make an exception for console devices and just have a small 
buffer in the hypervisor for console input/output (similar to the 
emergency console).  The biggest advantage to doing this IMHO is that it 
makes guest OS's a bit easier to port.  The console already is treated 
as an exception since it is setup in start_info (instead of through 
XenBus) so this is not that awful I think.

Regards,

Anthony Liguori

>  -- Keir
>

  reply	other threads:[~2006-03-22 16:15 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 177+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2006-03-22  6:30 [RFC PATCH 00/35] Xen i386 paravirtualization support Chris Wright
2006-03-22  6:30 ` Chris Wright
2006-03-22  6:30 ` [RFC PATCH 01/35] Add XEN config options and disable unsupported config options Chris Wright
2006-03-22  6:30   ` Chris Wright
2006-03-22  6:30 ` [RFC PATCH 02/35] Makefile support to build Xen subarch Chris Wright
2006-03-22  6:30 ` [RFC PATCH 03/35] Add Xen interface header files Chris Wright
2006-03-22  6:30 ` [RFC PATCH 04/35] Hypervisor " Chris Wright
2006-03-22  6:30   ` Chris Wright
2006-03-22  8:28   ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-03-22  9:31     ` Keir Fraser
2006-03-22  9:31       ` Keir Fraser
2006-03-22  9:46       ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-03-22 11:32       ` David Schwartz
2006-03-22 11:32         ` David Schwartz
2006-03-22 14:29         ` Keir Fraser
2006-03-22 14:29           ` Keir Fraser
2006-03-22  6:30 ` [RFC PATCH 05/35] Add sync bitops Chris Wright
2006-03-22  6:30 ` [RFC PATCH 06/35] Add vmlinuz build target Chris Wright
2006-03-22  6:30   ` Chris Wright
2006-03-22  6:30 ` [RFC PATCH 07/35] Make LOAD_OFFSET defined by subarch Chris Wright
2006-03-22 22:57   ` Dan Hecht
2006-03-22 22:57     ` Dan Hecht
2006-03-27  8:18     ` Gerd Hoffmann
2006-03-27  8:18       ` Gerd Hoffmann
2006-03-27 18:56       ` Hollis Blanchard
2006-03-28  8:49         ` Gerd Hoffmann
2006-03-28 17:00           ` Hollis Blanchard
2006-03-28 18:20             ` Christian Limpach
2006-03-28 19:47               ` ELF headers Hollis Blanchard
2006-03-22  6:30 ` [RFC PATCH 08/35] Add Xen-specific memory management definitions Chris Wright
2006-03-22  6:30 ` [RFC PATCH 09/35] Change __FIXADDR_TOP to leave room for the hypervisor Chris Wright
2006-03-22 17:27   ` Anthony Liguori
2006-03-22 17:27     ` Anthony Liguori
2006-03-22 17:32     ` Chris Wright
2006-03-22 17:32       ` Chris Wright
2006-03-22  6:30 ` [RFC PATCH 10/35] Add a new head.S start-of-day file for booting on Xen Chris Wright
2006-03-22  6:30   ` Chris Wright
2006-03-22 13:43   ` Andi Kleen
2006-03-22 18:58     ` Chris Wright
2006-03-22 18:45       ` Andi Kleen
2006-03-22 18:45         ` Andi Kleen
2006-03-22 19:26         ` Chris Wright
2006-03-22 19:26           ` Chris Wright
2006-03-22  6:30 ` [RFC PATCH 11/35] Add support for Xen to entry.S Chris Wright
2006-03-22  6:30   ` Chris Wright
2006-03-22 13:55   ` Andi Kleen
2006-03-22 17:24     ` [Xen-devel] " Zachary Amsden
2006-03-22 17:24       ` Zachary Amsden
2006-03-22  6:30 ` [RFC PATCH 12/35] Add start-of-day setup hooks to subarch Chris Wright
2006-03-22  6:30 ` [RFC PATCH 13/35] Support loading an initrd when running on Xen Chris Wright
2006-03-22 14:22   ` Andi Kleen
2006-03-22 19:20     ` Chris Wright
2006-03-22 19:20       ` Chris Wright
2006-03-22  6:30 ` [RFC PATCH 14/35] subarch modify CPU capabilities Chris Wright
2006-03-22  6:30   ` Chris Wright
2006-03-22  8:35   ` [Xen-devel] " Zachary Amsden
2006-03-22  8:35     ` Zachary Amsden
2006-03-22  9:33     ` [Xen-devel] " Keir Fraser
2006-03-22  9:33       ` Keir Fraser
2006-03-22 19:29       ` [Xen-devel] " Chris Wright
2006-03-22 19:29         ` Chris Wright
2006-03-22  6:30 ` [RFC PATCH 15/35] subarch support for controlling interrupt delivery Chris Wright
2006-03-22  6:30   ` Chris Wright
2006-03-22  6:30 ` [RFC PATCH 16/35] subarch support for interrupt and exception gates Chris Wright
2006-03-22  6:30   ` Chris Wright
2006-03-22 13:45   ` Andi Kleen
2006-03-22 20:54     ` Chris Wright
2006-03-22 20:54       ` Chris Wright
2006-03-22  6:30 ` [RFC PATCH 17/35] Segment register changes for Xen Chris Wright
2006-03-22 14:24   ` Andi Kleen
2006-03-22 19:33     ` Chris Wright
2006-03-22 19:33       ` Chris Wright
2006-03-23  0:16   ` Zachary Amsden
2006-03-23  0:16     ` Zachary Amsden
2006-03-22  6:30 ` [RFC PATCH 18/35] Support gdt/idt/ldt handling on Xen Chris Wright
2006-03-22 14:30   ` Andi Kleen
2006-03-22 17:51     ` [Xen-devel] " Zachary Amsden
2006-03-22 17:51       ` Zachary Amsden
2006-03-22 17:36       ` [Xen-devel] " Andi Kleen
2006-03-22 17:36         ` Andi Kleen
2006-03-22  6:30 ` [RFC PATCH 19/35] subarch support for control register accesses Chris Wright
2006-03-22  8:55   ` Zachary Amsden
2006-03-22  8:55     ` Zachary Amsden
2006-03-22 21:45     ` Chris Wright
2006-03-22 21:45       ` Chris Wright
2006-03-22  6:31 ` [RFC PATCH 20/35] subarch stack pointer update Chris Wright
2006-03-22  6:31   ` Chris Wright
2006-03-22  6:31 ` [RFC PATCH 21/35] subarch TLB support Chris Wright
2006-03-22  6:31   ` Chris Wright
2006-03-22  6:31 ` [RFC PATCH 22/35] subarch suport for idle loop (NO_IDLE_HZ for Xen) Chris Wright
2006-03-22  6:31 ` [RFC PATCH 23/35] Add support for Xen event channels Chris Wright
2006-03-22  6:31   ` Chris Wright
2006-03-22  8:36   ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-03-22 11:30     ` Keir Fraser
2006-03-22 11:30       ` Keir Fraser
2006-03-22 14:07   ` Andi Kleen
2006-03-22  6:31 ` [RFC PATCH 24/35] subarch support for mask value for irq nubmers Chris Wright
2006-03-22  6:31   ` Chris Wright
2006-03-22  6:31 ` [RFC PATCH 25/35] Add Xen time abstractions Chris Wright
2006-03-22  6:31   ` Chris Wright
2006-03-22  8:38   ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-03-22 19:37     ` Chris Wright
2006-03-22 19:37       ` Chris Wright
2006-03-22 22:26       ` [Xen-devel] " Dan Hecht
2006-03-23  3:23   ` [Xen-devel] " Eli Collins
2006-03-23  3:23     ` Eli Collins
2006-03-23  6:47     ` [Xen-devel] " Chris Wright
2006-03-23  6:47       ` Chris Wright
2006-03-22  6:31 ` [RFC PATCH 26/35] Add Xen subarch reboot support Chris Wright
2006-03-22  8:40   ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-03-22 10:22     ` Keir Fraser
2006-03-22 10:22       ` Keir Fraser
2006-03-22 10:39       ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-03-22 10:52         ` Keir Fraser
2006-03-22 10:52           ` Keir Fraser
2006-03-22 14:21   ` Andi Kleen
2006-03-22 14:21     ` Andi Kleen
2006-03-22 20:59     ` Pavel Machek
2006-03-22  6:31 ` [RFC PATCH 27/35] Add nosegneg capability to the vsyscall page notes Chris Wright
2006-03-22  6:31 ` [RFC PATCH 28/35] add support for Xen feature queries Chris Wright
2006-03-22  8:42   ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-03-22  6:31 ` [RFC PATCH 29/35] Add the Xen virtual console driver Chris Wright
2006-03-22  8:43   ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-03-22  9:29     ` Keir Fraser
2006-03-22 14:17   ` Andi Kleen
2006-03-22 14:17     ` Andi Kleen
2006-03-22 16:00   ` Anthony Liguori
2006-03-22 16:00     ` Anthony Liguori
2006-03-22 16:07     ` Keir Fraser
2006-03-22 16:14       ` Anthony Liguori [this message]
2006-03-22 16:14         ` Anthony Liguori
2006-03-22  6:31 ` [RFC PATCH 30/35] Add generic_page_range() function Chris Wright
2006-03-22  8:51   ` Zachary Amsden
2006-03-22  8:51     ` Zachary Amsden
2006-03-22  9:27     ` [Xen-devel] " Keir Fraser
2006-03-22  9:27       ` Keir Fraser
2006-03-22 11:21   ` Nick Piggin
2006-03-22 14:33     ` Keir Fraser
2006-03-22 14:33       ` Keir Fraser
2006-03-22 15:35       ` Keir Fraser
2006-03-22 15:35         ` Keir Fraser
2006-03-23  0:15         ` Nick Piggin
2006-03-23  0:26       ` Nick Piggin
2006-03-22  6:31 ` [RFC PATCH 31/35] Add Xen grant table support Chris Wright
2006-03-22  8:45   ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-03-22 18:38     ` Chris Wright
2006-03-22 18:38       ` Chris Wright
2006-03-22  6:31 ` [RFC PATCH 32/35] Add Xen driver utility functions Chris Wright
2006-03-22 14:12   ` Andi Kleen
2006-03-22 14:12     ` Andi Kleen
2006-03-22  6:31 ` [RFC PATCH 33/35] Add the Xenbus sysfs and virtual device hotplug driver Chris Wright
2006-03-22  8:53   ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-03-22 11:14     ` Keir Fraser
2006-03-22 11:14       ` Keir Fraser
2006-03-22  6:31 ` [RFC PATCH 34/35] Add the Xen virtual network device driver Chris Wright
2006-03-22  8:59   ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-03-22 15:29   ` James Morris
2006-03-22 17:17   ` Stephen Hemminger
2006-03-22  6:31 ` [RFC PATCH 35/35] Add Xen virtual block " Chris Wright
2006-03-22 16:39   ` Anthony Liguori
2006-03-22 16:54     ` Christoph Hellwig
2006-03-27  8:42     ` Gerd Hoffmann
2006-03-27  8:42       ` Gerd Hoffmann
2006-03-22 17:15 ` [RFC PATCH 00/35] Xen i386 paravirtualization support Anthony Liguori
2006-03-22 17:15   ` Anthony Liguori
2006-03-22 17:27   ` Chris Wright
2006-03-22 17:27     ` Chris Wright
2006-03-22 17:50     ` Anthony Liguori
2006-03-22 17:50       ` Anthony Liguori
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2006-05-09  8:49 Chris Wright
2006-05-09  7:00 ` [RFC PATCH 29/35] Add the Xen virtual console driver Chris Wright
2006-05-09 13:26   ` Andi Kleen
2006-05-09 13:26     ` Andi Kleen
2006-05-09 15:03     ` Christian Limpach
2006-05-13 12:27   ` Andrew Morton
2006-05-13 12:51     ` Nick Piggin
2006-05-13 14:29       ` Andrew Morton
2006-05-13 14:43         ` Nick Piggin

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